TC-TCR Temperature Control TCR Value Solution for Different Coils/Mods

[MTL Connoisseur]

This area on your probe looks awfully long. It might have been shorting against the chimney walls.

View attachment 868497


Notice how the insulation goes all the way almost to the tip of my probe, only the metal probe tip is under a wrap, and no bare probe wire beyond that. Do you have another probe with longer insulation?

Yeah I noticed it,
The only probes I have are the cheap stock once that came with the unit and the after market once I been using which I linked earlier. They are type T probes and not sure if I can trust the insulation to take the heat from the coil. I will definitely need to build 3mm internal spaced “very spaced” like your picture.

What will happen if I cut the tip off the probe?
Can it read temp from the material under the insulation instead? And just cut the tip off all together.


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[MTL Connoisseur]

If you switch to TI you need to rethink that 1.25 "ideal" resistance. The was the ideal resistance for you with SS, TI is a different animal.

Most of my coils are 0.25 or less, but I use heavier wire so yours might be 0.5 or so.

Thanks guys,
That’s fine with me. I will aim for 0.5ohm on T1.


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[mikepetro]

Yeah I noticed it,
The only probes I have are the cheap stock once that came with the unit and the after market once I been using which I linked earlier. They are type T probes and not sure if I can trust the insulation to take the heat from the coil. I will definitely need to build 3mm internal spaced “very spaced” like your picture.

What will happen if I cut the tip off the probe?
Can it read temp from the material under the insulation instead? And just cut the tip off all together.


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It wont work.

The tip is two wires welded at the tip.

Thermocouples work off of the voltage difference created at the junction of two dissimilar metals. Much like TCR, but a lot more precise. If the 2 metals are known standards, then the voltage//temp can be extrapolated precisely. The metal combinations are standardized Type K, J, T, etc.

This is a good reference on thermocouples:
Thermocouples

 

[MTL Connoisseur]

It wont work.

The tip is two wires welded at the tip.

Thermocouples work off of the voltage difference created at the junction of two dissimilar metals. Much like TCR, but a lot more precise. If the 2 metals are known standards, then the voltage//temp can be extrapolated precisely. The metal combinations are standardized Type K, J, T, etc.

This is a good reference on thermocouples:
Thermocouples

Too bad I don't have a soldering iron or I would redo it,
Should I cover those 2 exposed wires with something like Kapton tape?
used the stuff for 3D printing and it should handle high-temps.

 

[mikepetro]

Too bad I don't have a soldering iron or I would redo it,
Should I cover those 2 exposed wires with something like Kapton tape?
used the stuff for 3D printing and it should handle high-temps.

Kapton tape probably would work. Or heatshrink if you have any.

Soldering the junction probably would mess with calibration. I am not sure what they use but it isnt standard solder. Standard solder has melting points below the top end of many/most of these thermocouples.

 

[drmarble]

Kapton tape probably would work. Or heatshrink if you have any.

Soldering the junction probably would mess with calibration. I am not sure what they use but it isnt standard solder. Standard solder has melting points below the top end of many/most of these thermocouples.

They aren't soldered. They are spot welded. A device similar to what is used to make n-r-n could is used. They actually make special thermocouple welders for those who need lots of special ones. The raw wire is cheap. Any other metal in the junction would make the thermocouple inaccurate.

 

[MTL Connoisseur]

Kapton tape probably would work. Or heatshrink if you have any.

Soldering the junction probably would mess with calibration. I am not sure what they use but it isnt standard solder. Standard solder has melting points below the top end of many/most of these thermocouples.

Kapton tape it is then, I have heatshrinks but as you know they are rubber stuff might melt on me.
I used Kapton on 3D Printer hotend while printing exotic materials such as carbonfiber, nylon, magnetic material, ABS and PLA infused with metals. I was printing those "Exotics" at 250c sometimes. Kapton is used in spaceships allot as well, cool stuff.

 

[mikepetro]

Do you use flavors?

"1,2-Propylene glycol and glycerin, principal components of e-liquids, can thermally degrade to form acetaldehyde, acrolein, and formaldehyde when heated in electronic nicotine delivery systems (ENDS). Recently the flavors in e-liquids were suggested to be the major source of these aldehydes. We used the same 10 ENDS devices to test 5 e-liquid formulations (four flavored & one corresponding non-flavored) and measured device mass loss and levels of acetaldehyde, acrolein, and formaldehyde (30 replicate measurements per formulation). Despite finding reasonable variability in measurements of device mass loss, two out of 10 ENDS devices tested produced outlier values for aerosol levels acetaldehyde, acrolein, and formaldehyde. After removing these devices from further analysis, acceptable variability (≤20% RSD) in aerosol levels of acetaldehyde, and formaldehyde were found. The flavored formulations tested resulted in a consistent and selective increase of 150%-200% in acetaldehyde, no increase or decrease in acrolein and depending on the flavor formulation, an increase, a decrease or no change in formaldehyde levels. Comparison of our results to the literature illustrates the need for development of a standardized ENDS testing protocol. Our results further support that device variability must be fully characterized and considered before assessing the impact of e-liquid formulations."

Actually, I dont doubt that this may be the case. Especially since it was authored by Ivan Gene Gillman who has done a lot of legitimate (politically neutral) vape testing.

I have requested the full txt of his report.

 

[MTL Connoisseur]

Interesting, I stay away from flavors,
I am not trying to eat I rather quite smoking[emoji13]

I mainly vape on tobacco eliquids,
Current favorite is Naked Euro Gold Tobacco 6mg nic.


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[MTL Connoisseur]

3rd Kayfun lite Special Edition received [emoji1360]
And installed SvoeMesto Extra Small Centerpin XS
Making this tight RTA even more tighter draw!
But now it is much smoother-tighter than the original centerpin.

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[MTL Connoisseur]

I got the Kapton tape in various sizes and awaiting the T1 wires by Friday.

Quick question @mikepetro & @Punk In Drublic
Single wires vs clapton and other complicated wires,

Why would you choose clapton and other various wires over single wire?
does clapton and alike retain e-liquid better or what's the theory behind it?

Currently I just got prebuilt SS316L Fused Clapton in 1ohm and 1.5ohm,
I also have an SS316L juggernaut spool sitting around.

I am trying the SS316 Fused Clapton 1ohm and the taste lets say seems more "complicated"?
I am noticing some gurgling not from over-flooding the build deck but rather gurgling
from the coil itself when I fire to take a draw. Also noticed less "spitting" of liquid.

I just can't make sense out of what I am experiencing with it.
a detailed explanation of the theory behind them would be appreciated.

 

[Jebbn]

Interesting, I stay away from flavors,
I am not trying to eat I rather quite smoking[emoji13]

I mainly vape on tobacco eliquids,
Current favorite is Naked Euro Gold Tobacco 6mg nic.


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Those tobacco eliquids you vape, they are made up of flavours. Thats why they have a flavour to them.

 

[MTL Connoisseur]

Those tobacco eliquids you vape, they are made up of flavours. Thats why they have a flavour to them.

Hehe sure,
but come on, banana strawberry milk shake with chocolate topping
is what we are talking about. Some people prefer that which is fine but us "smokers"
tend to stick to tobacco which is more or less strained from tobacco leafs not artificial "mostly".

To combat "vaper's tongue" I might switch to some coffee flavors for a little bit
but that's about how far I go with "flavors".

 

[mikepetro]

Hehe sure,
but come on, banana strawberry milk shake with chocolate topping
is what we are talking about. Some people prefer that which is fine but us "smokers"
tend to stick to tobacco which is more or less strained from tobacco leafs not artificial "mostly".

To combat "vaper's tongue" I might switch to some coffee flavors for a little bit
but that's about how far I go with "flavors".

I know that when I quit, and I was a hardcore smoker, that I did NOT like tobacco flavored vape. All it did was make me want the rel thing. When I tried other flavors they instantly clicked. Not an unusual pattern from talking with other folks. Even today, I either vape unflavored or I vape peach.

The whole thing about "nasties" associated with flavors is real, and "nets" (naturally extracted tobacco" are not exempt from this. The study I quoted only touched on a few, but it clearly showed that different flavors exhibited different levels of "nasties". Some flavor molecules, natural or artificial, are worse than others. But, generally speaking, most are far less harmful that inhaling tobacco smoke.

 

[MTL Connoisseur]

Personally I don't know how anyone could vape on cheese cake and think it is safe in the long run, common sense prevails. But yes I did hear about unflavored being the safest.

I just don't want to see any unnecessary legislation in the future because someone got sick. That's about my only concern with this. I like having an option to walk to a vape shop
and pick-up e-liquids. I hope this will last.

 

[mikepetro]

I got the Kapton tape in various sizes and awaiting the T1 wires by Friday.

Quick question @mikepetro & @Punk In Drublic
Single wires vs clapton and other complicated wires,

Why would you choose clapton and other various wires over single wire?
does clapton and alike retain e-liquid better or what's the theory behind it?

Currently I just got prebuilt SS316L Fused Clapton in 1ohm and 1.5ohm,
I also have an SS316L juggernaut spool sitting around.

I am trying the SS316 Fused Clapton 1ohm and the taste lets say seems more "complicated"?
I am noticing some gurgling not from over-flooding the build deck but rather gurgling
from the coil itself when I fire to take a draw. Also noticed less "spitting" of liquid.

I just can't make sense out of what I am experiencing with it.
a detailed explanation of the theory behind them would be appreciated.

There are at least two things that affect the physics of vaping with exotic coil geometries. In general these exotics generate more vapor aerosol, ie more vapor per hit.

• Surface area - A fused clapton, like what I use has more surface area that a normal coil. The aerosol is created on the surface of the coil as juice comes in contact with the coil. More surface area = more vapor.
• Mass - there is more mass, ie more metal, in an exotic coil. More mass affects the thermal capacity of a coil. More mass takes more wattage to heat up, but then retains that heat longer than regular coils. The higher mass puts out more BTUs at a given temperature than a normal coil. More BTUs affects the volume of juice vaporized.

Both of these factors, and there may be more less obvious ones than I have mentioned, combine to vaporize more juice per hit, giving you a fuller hit with more vapor.

Because these coils are "thirsty" you need to make sure your wicking can deliver the amount of juice they want.

Cloud Bros use these coils a lot because they "can" generate massive clouds. I use them for a fuller hit. I vape MTL and generally dont tune them for big clouds.

 

[mikepetro]

Personally I don't know how anyone could vape on cheese cake and think it is safe in the long run, common sense prevails. But yes I did hear about unflavored being the safest.

I just don't want to see any unnecessary legislation in the future because someone got sick. That's about my only concern with this. I like having an option to walk to a vape shop
and pick-up e-liquids. I hope this will last.

Vaping is not "safe", it is considerably less harmful than smoking though. Inhaling anything other than clean air is likely to have some level of harm associated with it.

Flavors have not been studied much. They are GRAS for oral consumption, but not much is known about inhalation.

Regarding legislation, and our ability to walk into a store and buy what we want, that is rapidly getting choked off. State after state is adding heavy taxes and tightening up restrictions, and the Feds are getting ready to really tighten things up less than 3 months from now. Our ability to buy what we want is already being threatened heavily. Thats why some of us have stockpiled our preferred liquids, and more importantly - nic itself.

 

[MTL Connoisseur]

Regarding legislation, and our ability to walk into a store and buy what we want, that is rapidly getting choked off. State after state is adding heavy taxes and tightening up restrictions, and the Feds are getting ready to really tighten things up less than 3 months from now. Our ability to buy what we want is already being threatened heavily. Thats why some of us have stockpiled our preferred liquids, and more importantly - nic itself.

That is not good to hear early in the morning lol.
You can stockpile so much you will eventually need to buy it or mix it in your case.

I will stick with big companies like naked, at least they can fight in courts and still sell
products if only online.

This is NOT good news at all especially for other countries and people trying to quite smoking, the governments look up to the U.S in this regard, and if vaping gets
choked here it will be banned in allot of countries. terrible.

 

[mikepetro]

That is not good to hear early in the morning lol.
You can stockpile so much you will eventually need to buy it or mix it in your case.

I will stick with big companies like naked, at least they can fight in courts and still sell
products if only online.

This is NOT good news at all especially for other countries and people trying to quite smoking, the governments look up to the U.S in this regard, and if vaping gets
choked here it will be banned in allot of countries. terrible.

Both of these threads are quite long, but you might find them of interest:

Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

The Final Count Down -- Are You Ready?

I have been mixing my own juice for about 5 years. I started because it was tremendously cheaper, now I am real glad I did.

 

[Jebbn]

Hehe sure,
but come on, banana strawberry milk shake with chocolate topping
is what we are talking about. Some people prefer that which is fine but us "smokers"
tend to stick to tobacco which is more or less strained from tobacco leafs not artificial "mostly".

To combat "vaper's tongue" I might switch to some coffee flavors for a little bit
but that's about how far I go with "flavors".

your current favourite is 100% artificial flavours. No different from banana strawberry milkshake with chocolate topping.
I smoked for 42yrs. Tobacco flavoured juice tastes like crap to me. So does all vape juice. If I didnt discover unflavoured I wouldnt have kept on vaping.