Temp control won't work with SS - DNA 200

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BrokenLung

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So I recently got a dna 200 and a 75. I thought okay so I can just get some 316 and go to town. Well that was wrong. Thought resistance was too high so I built a dual coil now im down to 0.2 ohms. I have now downloaded the 316l profile from steam engine. The atomizer varies in the 0.00x range by 1-2 points. I think that is stable enough? Does it just not do temp control after a certain resistance or? I am sure this has been answered somewhere else but I was so overwhelmed with all the threads and not sure if the information still applied at this point in time. Ughh, I don't know what to do now, just built this pretty dual coil set up and thought it would run temp control but it won't :(
 

Eskie

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A few things. What actual mod and what actual tank? What kind of build, simple 316L or Clapton or other higher mass coils? What does the profile look like you're using in eScribe. Things like temperature dominant should be checked. Is it set to the proper coil material (lower left hand corner)? Here's a quick screenshot of a 316L profile.
Evolv 316L settings.JPG


More info would be helpful as it should perform quite well in TC mode, and I use builds of 0.25 ohm without an issue.
 

Imfallen_Angel

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Well, regardless of the arguments I get from a few others members, I've always informed people that SS can be finicky.

With some mods and tanks, SS simply won't work right. For me, I cannot get it to work in my smaller single coil RTAs such as the Lemo 2 or my OBS ACE, every time I tried, various gauge, few wraps, as many as I could, spaced or compressed, my SS coils have never worked right in them... it would either skip out of TC mode (to Watt) or the ramp was always simply too fast and give me a burnt taste (so either a coll very poor vape, or to increase the wattage and temp. and get a burnt taste).

But that said, with my dual coils, Crius, Billows, Bachelor II, it works great. Also works fine with my RDAs. So I go with SS simply needs enough mass/wire for it to balance out correctly. I can build between 0.2 to around 1.0 ohm, I prefer with 26 or 28 gauge and have no issues. 2.5mm coils up to 4mm, works fine, but again, as long as it's dual coils.

Note that I'm still waiting for my DNA mod, but all my other mods did the same, with the same results anyways.
 

Imfallen_Angel

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I believe a DNA board will change your opinion on 316L SS, even in a single coil configuration, which I have frequently used.

I hope so and I do plan to rebuild all my small single coil tanks with SS and see what the difference will be, but as I've seen many comments from people with DNA mods (or any mod regardless) that have had issues, (this very thread is yet another one), so... no matter how many on this board are nay-sayers, SS has been problematic for many.
 

Eskie

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OK, here's a sample screenshot from TC on my Therion.
Therion temp curve.JPG

Red temp, green power, purple resistance. 316L at 0.5 ohm, 40W preheat 1 sec then 30W, 470F.

Green (power) goes up the first second, then drops to the set 30W and continues to adjust downward from 30W. Resistance jumps to 0.636 from 0.53 ohm and is maintained. Temp goes to 470 in the first second and is maintained throughout. There is no pulsing of power, and no bouncing of temp over the time the power button is held down.

I have yet to have any 316L build of mine pop out of TC at any time. Whether that's true with factory coils, where there may be other variables involved is unknown to me, as I don't use any on these mods.
 
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Carl2

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I've just run into a similar thing with Nickel wire, I've got a Kanger and a Eleaf pico and use two Vaporesso tanks. I had a tank that wouldn't work correctly on the Kanger but did work on the Eleaf. After a week or so it would switch from the temp mode to the watts mode, I took off one winding from one of the coils and its been working fine since. I'd look up the resistance of the coils sold for that vap unit and try to get close to that. Also the resistance will change as you use the unit, go with a cold coil when trying to get the right resistance. I like the SS and am trying to switch to that.
 

Imfallen_Angel

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OK, here's a sample screenshot from TC on my Therion.
View attachment 627535
Red temp, green power, purple resistance. 316L at 0.5 ohm, 40W preheat 1 sec then 30W, 470F.

Green (power) goes up the first second, then drops to the set 30W and continues to adjust downward from 30W. Resistance jumps to 0.636 from 0.53 ohm and is maintained. Temp goes to 470 in the first second and is maintained throughout. There is no pulsing of power, and no bouncing of temp over the time the power button is held down.

I have yet to have any 316L build of mine pop out of TC at any time. Whether that's true with factory coils, where there may be other variables involved is unknown to me, as I don't use any on these mods.

What I don't get is that in these threads, you come in and say that you have no problem with SS for TC on your Mods. That's very nice and all, but what does that provide to the OP?

I've been informing new members or anyone with the questions about SS and TC and have been having trouble with TC and SS that if they are having issues, that they aren't alone. I provide my experience and explain what didn't work for me, but also what does work for me, so that the OP 1) knows he's not alone having trouble with TC, 2) might try again, something different, if he was using a single coil, he might go and try a dual coil and see if it works better for them.

You know, I've been vaping for 8 years, I've seen and used dozens upon of dozens of vaping devices, but I keep it simple and not a cloud chaser nor compete. I was rebuilding the old pre-ego era e-cigarettes (those one made to look and light up like a real cigarette), when every device and liquids had to be ordered from shady parts of the world, etc. I've been building sub-ohms coils for years now and DIY my own liquids for a while now, anyways, my point is, I could go on about how amazing I am like you've been doing but that doesn't help others.

I'd rather have the OP reply with more details, tell us about what he's done, tried, etc. and see what we can help him with, than have you and the likes come in, do nothing else than say "well it works for me!" tap each other on the back, swoon around the room and provide absolutely nothing of value.

I hope you don't see this as me being rude because that's not my point, it's simply that you should provide something of actual value or simply leave these threads about TC and SS alone... no?

The point is, I'm here to help others with my experience when I can, and I still ask questions too every so often.

But if you plan to come in these threads and simply say "single coils in SS works for me" it comes off as arrogant and insulting like that. Maybe if you explained how you build your coils, the gauge you use, the wraps, the settings on your mods, that might be productive. Note that I've checked many videos about SS building and if I am doing something wrong, I'd love, LOVE to figure it out and see what I've been missing all this time. But I've never had a single issue with any other coils I've built, including NI for TC, and like I said already, no problem with SS since I started doing dual coils.
 

Imfallen_Angel

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I've just run into a similar thing with Nickel wire, I've got a Kanger and a Eleaf pico and use two Vaporesso tanks. I had a tank that wouldn't work correctly on the Kanger but did work on the Eleaf. After a week or so it would switch from the temp mode to the watts mode, I took off one winding from one of the coils and its been working fine since. I'd look up the resistance of the coils sold for that vap unit and try to get close to that. Also the resistance will change as you use the unit, go with a cold coil when trying to get the right resistance. I like the SS and am trying to switch to that.
I've seen enough comments about the Kanger mods that I wouldn't buy one to be honest.

On thing about NI is that it is a very soft metal, if you've got issues, one cause might be that the wire is screwed in too tight and might be close to breaking. You also have to ensure that the coil doesn't touch the walls (and causing a small short)... some mods are more forgiving than others.

What gauge of NI were you using? I've used 30 and found it very difficult at times, 28 was my favourtie for a long time, but lately, I prefer 26... a few more wraps for the ohm range I want, but overall, been finding it a much better vape experience with it.

It really depends on the tank I use and what will fit in it. For example, I recently got a Bachelor II, and it's a great tank, I was able to fit a dual 4mm SS (26g) build in it with room to spare.
 

Eskie

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What I don't get is that in these threads, you come in and say that you have no problem with SS for TC on your Mods. That's very nice and all, but what does that provide to the OP?

I've been informing new members or anyone with the questions about SS and TC and have been having trouble with TC and SS that if they are having issues, that they aren't alone. I provide my experience and explain what didn't work for me, but also what does work for me, so that the OP 1) knows he's not alone having trouble with TC, 2) might try again, something different, if he was using a single coil, he might go and try a dual coil and see if it works better for them.

You know, I've been vaping for 8 years, I've seen and used dozens upon of dozens of vaping devices, but I keep it simple and not a cloud chaser nor compete. I was rebuilding the old pre-ego era e-cigarettes (those one made to look and light up like a real cigarette), when every device and liquids had to be ordered from shady parts of the world, etc. I've been building sub-ohms coils for years now and DIY my own liquids for a while now, anyways, my point is, I could go on about how amazing I am like you've been doing but that doesn't help others.

I'd rather have the OP reply with more details, tell us about what he's done, tried, etc. and see what we can help him with, than have you and the likes come in, do nothing else than say "well it works for me!" tap each other on the back, swoon around the room and provide absolutely nothing of value.

I hope you don't see this as me being rude because that's not my point, it's simply that you should provide something of actual value or simply leave these threads about TC and SS alone... no?

The point is, I'm here to help others with my experience when I can, and I still ask questions too every so often.

But if you plan to come in these threads and simply say "single coils in SS works for me" it comes off as arrogant and insulting like that. Maybe if you explained how you build your coils, the gauge you use, the wraps, the settings on your mods, that might be productive. Note that I've checked many videos about SS building and if I am doing something wrong, I'd love, LOVE to figure it out and see what I've been missing all this time. But I've never had a single issue with any other coils I've built, including NI for TC, and like I said already, no problem with SS since I started doing dual coils.

Please see my post, #4, at the top, asking the OP for specific information in an attempt to assist them with their issue. That information has yet to be supplied. That might be more helpful to the OP than simply posting "I've seen others have problems with SS" as in your posts.
 

BrokenLung

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upload_2017-1-11_23-50-43.png



26 gauge SS 316L master of clouds wire. I was using a twisted coil (as I do with nickel) but thought the mass mad the resistance too high so im down to a single wire SS setup. Nickel works perfectly. It kinda makes me want to just use nickel. I remember nickel being a headache back in the day, maybe time will make SS more viable but it seems to act more like a regular kanthal type wire for me. Right now on the avocacado (dead flat in ohm monitor) it is popping in and out of TC mode, mostly out.
 

BrokenLung

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Ive been building coils and vaping TC since it came out. I can't figure any good reason for this not to work. It just doesn't register it as a temp control device. Had this problem with my magma atties which have always been great TC performers, ya know, vape down to a white wick. Ill get the name of the mod but it uses 3 cells and has a leatherish backplate that reveals 3 18650's. I have the same problem with my VT 75 and no amount of letting them sit around seems to matter,
 

Eskie

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The 3 cell 18650 leather back is likely a Triade. So the build you're using kicks you out to power mode on both the that and the VT75? This was on a Magma RDA that worked in TC before?

Thoughts for troubleshooting. First, can you change the coil material back to the stock 316L rather than the Steam curve you downloaded for SS? Can you open device monitor and graph out what happens when you try to fire the mod with the atty on (before it dumps you to power mode)? Finally, what happens if you lock Ohms when it is in TC mode at cold ohms?

Oh and bouncing around .001 or 2 in atomizer analyzer is normal.
 

Imfallen_Angel

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View attachment 627601

26 gauge SS 316L master of clouds wire. I was using a twisted coil (as I do with nickel) but thought the mass mad the resistance too high so im down to a single wire SS setup. Nickel works perfectly. It kinda makes me want to just use nickel. I remember nickel being a headache back in the day, maybe time will make SS more viable but it seems to act more like a regular kanthal type wire for me. Right now on the avocacado (dead flat in ohm monitor) it is popping in and out of TC mode, mostly out.
Have you tried without the pre-heat?

For your coils, compressed or spaced?
I've tested both with SS and contrary to NI, where you absolutely should use spaced coils, I found that I could do compressed coils with minimal difference, but again, in dual coil setup.

SS has a resistance closer to Khantal than NI, so if you're doing twisted, you'd have to use smaller than 26 gauge.

I gather that you are experienced enough that it shouldn't be a case of the coil touching the posts or chamber, but, that's always a possibility that it might if you're using larger coil sizes than you'd be used to with NI.

Just thinking of possibilities... possibly you aren't screwing the posts tight enough.. NI is so soft that one needs to be gentle, but SS is a lot stronger and should be pressed much harder... a bit of looseness might be part of the issue.

As far as fluctuation, the ohm range will change a bit from virgin to heated, but should become stable after heating it a couple of time and is normally quite stable from then on.
 
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dobroeutro

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I am not an expert by any stretch of the imagination nor am I fortunate enough to own any DNA mods. That said, I have several budget mods and only use 24/26ga SS316L wire in my single coil RTA's & RDA's. I also have several tanks that supposedly, (Joyetech Cubis), use stock SS316 coils. I was excited about TC when I first got my eVic VTC Mini. After attaching the Cubis with the .5 coil, selecting SS316 mode, setting watts @ 25 & temp to 400F, I was ready to go or so I thought. Unfortunately, I got basically nothing. Upping the temp a little at a time all the way to 550F didn't get me near what I wanted or expected. Switched over to Power mode, perfect. So I had a great vape but was determined to figure this TC thing out. After a lot of research, I learned the .5 Cubis coil was likely not SS316. So, I selected Custom TCR mode on the Mini and started playing around with TCR values. To make an even longer story short, I'm using my Mini/Cubis setup exclusively in TC mode now. .5 coil, 25-27W/420-450F with a custom TCR of 135. I am happy... :D
 

dobroeutro

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I also have Aspire NX75/Serpent Mini & Wismec Presa75/NarDA clone setups. Even though I am using single coil builds with SS316L wire, they don't seem to work well in the default SS316 mode on either mod. On the NX75/Serpent, I am using a contact 3mm 24ga .4ohm coil and a custom TCR of 115 @ 30W/450F. For the Presa75/NarDA clone, I am using a contact 3mm 26ga .45ohm coil and a custom TCR of 110 @ 27.5W/430F. Both work well now...

I'm not sure what any of this means except the default SS316/316L modes aren't working for me. But it seems setting a custom TCR can fix some issues. Based on my own experience and comments earlier in this thread, it would also seem likely, wire gauge, coil ohms & contact vs spaced coils could also create/solve problems with TC... :D
 
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