Temperature Control 101

[MikeB]

This board really needs a sticky explaining things for us out of the loop. Anyone at all feel free to post here.

- What is Temperature Control in terms of vaping? How does it affect the experience? Is it the future of vaping?
- How does TC fit into the lineup of devices past and present?
- What are it's mechanics and how does it work?
- How is a coil build different for TC, and what types of builds are proper or popular?
- What are the top manufacturers and popular devices? What features separate them and what is the build quality and durability like?

I'll try to summarize that I know here. First there was just you and your battery. The only thing you could control was your resistance via your coil build. Kanthal was king. Then came VV, and the world was revolutionized. I got a Provari Mini and stayed there as a happy vaper, but the world moved on to VW (which I never understood since my coil doesn't fluctuate in resistance much as its heated), and now there's Temperature Control. Theoretically it applies more power at the start to get the coil to temp, and then fluctuates the power (via witchcraft, lol) to maintain that temp. Kanthal is dead, and coils are using weird stuff such as titanium. What devices? No idea. Appears to be a herd of them. Is this the future or a fad? Looks to be the future, but I've heard that before in the vape world, so it's hard to say.

I hope to become re-educated about modern vaping after getting stuck in VV for two years, and ultimately answer the question: Do I need/want to spend my dollars on TC?

Thanks to anyone that's read this far!

 

[puffon]

I don't think it's a fad. Its been out for 2 years now.
If the FDA allows any devices, in the future market, I think it will have some form of temp control.
Most devices sold today give you a choice to use TC or VW.

 

[Eskie]

I can try to break down a few areas here, but maybe not all (that's a lot of info). Temperature control is a method of regulating the temperature of a wire while power is being supplied. This is accomplished in an indirect manner. The resistance of metals changes with temperature. What a TC mod does is not measure the actual temperature, but rather the change in resistance of the coil as power is applied. Different metals change at differing rates, so for TC to work correctly, the mod needs to "know" what wire is in there to properly calculate the inferred temperature under load.

Some wires change a great deal, others very little. This is one reason Kanthal isn't used in TC, there is insufficient "change" to measure. OTOH, Ni wire changes a great deal, making it common for TC coils, especially when TC was new, and performing these calculations were still being optimized.

The build of the coils themselves depends on the metal chosen. For example, Ti must be built as spaced coils. SS can be built spaced or contact. SS has become popular as it is easy to build with, and can be safely used in both TC or Wattage/power mode. Ni an Ti cannot, as if the temperature should exceed a certain amount (which can occur if too much power is applied) release of toxic metal components is possible.

Manufacturers these days range from the inexpensive Joytech, Wismec, eLeaf, Innokin, up to expensive "special" or more featured DNA or YiHi based chips. Remember, it's the electronics measuring these small resistance changes that makes the whole thing work, so the better the chipset, the better the result. Well known manufacturers here range from Lost Vape, Hcigar, Hotcig, Volcano, and a bunch more. If you look through the temp control subforum, you'll see lots of names and threads about their performance.

 

[OhTheAgony]

I think Eskie pretty much covered the basics. Lock the thread please, before it becomes so cluttered that no body bothers to read it

I can only add my personal experience; I'm someone who never mastered kanthal or VW mode. I've tried it a few times but never really enjoyed it.

I used an Ego for years and when I switched to a proper mod & tank earlier this year I pretty much went straight to TC and never looked back. Titanium is my wire of choice for clean taste and a predictable TC vape, and just because I'm used to working with it I guess (my first mod didn't do stainless and nickel is a big no no for me so that left titanium as the obvious choice back then).

You definitely should at least try it, I feel you're missing out if you don't.

 

[Eskie]

I don't mind using Kanthal and wattage at times. However, for my daily use I prefer TC just because my vape temp is more constant, without that "keeps getting hotter" as I hold down the power button. The other touted advantage to TC is that when properly set up, you will not get any dry hits as the chip will not allow the temp to climb as rapidly as it will if there were no liquid for evaporation. As I've never had issues with dry hits unless I did something stupid (which is still plenty often) that's never really kicked in with enough frequency to feel it valuable in and of itself.

Oh, another point is if properly set up, it will help prolong battery life by a smidgen by not wasting power by overheating the coil the longer vape you take. Once the wire is at "temp" the amount of power needed to keep it at that point is far less. So if I'm using settings of 450F at 30W, the power will quickly climb to get me to "450F", and then roll back to perhaps 10-15W to keep it there.

 

[VapingBad]

Quick pointers that instantly spring to mind for those new to temp limiting

• You need good clean and tight connections, poor connection are the the most common cause of "issues".
• Fit new coils at room temperature, the mod and coils should be close to the same temp so the board can get a good base resistance reading. If that reading is out then temp sensing will be.
  
• Use spaced coils.
• Not enough vapour? it's the same basics as everything else: airflow, wicking and coil contact area and you probably need to increase one or more of these. IMO coil contact area is the most overlooked, more loops or dropping wire size & twisting are the easiest ways to fix it.
• Locking ohms is the last resort for poor connection issues (unless your mod only functions that way). Most decent temp limiting boards will track the board temp and coil temp as they cool to get a more accurate base resistance value.
• Don't max watts, at least at first as if for some other reason like the base/cold resistance was high you can overpower your coil.

 

[MikeB]

Wow! A lot of great info here! You guys are wonderful, as I always expect with the ECF!

 

[MikeB]

Ok, I've had a moment to digest all this. Here are some assumptions/questions:

- Do these different wires impart a different flavors? I Remer long ago between kanthal and Nicrom, the kanthal tasted cleaner.

- and what's this about toxic metal components? I understand it's just if those two wire types get over heated, but what if there's a glitch or device failure of some kind. "Toxic metal components" has to be the scariest phrase I've read on the ECF ever. Haha.

- Are the DNA devices more or less king of the field at the moment?

- Do new coils have to be pre heat treated with a torch? Or can you just put them on and let them oxidize as you run them?

Overall, well done! I think I know enough to start reading this board and have some understand of what's being discussed.

 

[Eskie]

Ok, I've had a moment to digest all this. Here are some assumptions/questions:

- Do these different wires impart a different flavors? I Remer long ago between kanthal and Nicrom, the kanthal tasted cleaner.

Some people swear they can tell the difference between different metals. I can't taste a difference between Kanthal and SS. Never used the others so I can't comment on them. Also, I've never seen a blind test comparing flavors to know if folks really can tell the difference. If someone knows of one, please let me know. I'd be real interested in that.

- and what's this about toxic metal components? I understand it's just if those two wire types get over heated, but what if there's a glitch or device failure of some kind. "Toxic metal components" has to be the scariest phrase I've read on the ECF ever. Haha.

There's always scarier stuff than that in the world. For example, Ebola and a zombie apocalypse would worry me. Using Ni or Ti in wattage mode would rank below them. The risk of running those wires in wattage mode would still require getting them quite hot. You'd probably notice it and back off. Safest solution (Ni or Ti fans, please don't hit me) use SS.

It's like using high current batteries like we currently do. treat them properly and you're fine. Treat them poorly and you'll run into trouble like BANG. If you use Ni or Ti, run in TC mode. if there's a fault in your coil or elsewhere in the chain, and your mod pops back into wattage mode, don't use it. find and fix the problem.

- Are the DNA devices more or less king of the field at the moment?

DNA and Yihi are current leaders. You'll find fans of both and they do perform well. DNA Evolv has a software package that lets you customize all kinds of stuff and collect data on use, even follow performance in real time graphs. Great if you're into stuff like that (I am, so there's a bias). Hohm also makes their own TC chip which is reportedly very good. It claims to do TC on Kanthal, but a lot of folks scratch their head over that one as far as how they really do it. Dicodes is a German company that makes first class products that do TC as well, and are highly regarded but you would have t order it overseas from someplace like Creme de Vape and have it sent to the US. Not a big deal, but it is an expensive mod (does have a 2 year warranty though),

- Do new coils have to be pre heat treated with a torch? Or can you just put them on and let them oxidize as you run them?

I don't torch my coils unless it's some odd wire build. Simply dry burning it in on your mod or (my preference) 521 tab should be fine. NOTE, that's with Kanthal and SS. I don't use the others so no comments from me, although I do believe Ni and Ti are treated differently.

Overall, well done! I think I know enough to start reading this board and have some understand of what's being discussed.

Enjoy your TC journey. Oh, and just when you think you understand it all, something will come along to confound you anyway.

 

[mackman]

Vaping Bad summed the basics nicely, experience/use will allow you to dial in your "perfect vape".
Temperature=flavor Watts = clouds

 

[MikeB]

What is the difference between DNA 200, 133, 75, whatever? Is this the chips etc? 200 is new on 75 is legacy?

 

[VapingBad]

What is the difference between DNA 200, 133, 75, whatever? Is this the chips etc? 200 is new on 75 is legacy?

The 200 is higher performance and has a few more features than the 75, the 133 is just a 200 run off 2 battery cells instead of the usual 3. They are aimed at different price points, neither replaces the other, but the new 250 you could look at as an improved version of the 200.

 

[MikeB]

The 200 is higher performance and has a few more features than the 75, the 133 is just a 200 run off 2 battery cells instead of the usual 3. They are aimed at different price points, neither replaces the other, but the new 250 you could look at as an improved version of the 200.

Omg there is a 250, too! Haha.

Ok, I think I get it. Thank for the explanation.

So is it safe to assume the 133 is a smaller form factor since it uses two batteries instead of three? Also, three batteries?! What do these things weigh? Do the fit in a pocket? Do I need to tighten my belt?

 

[52anddone]

2 batteries = Belt
3 batteries = Belt & Suspenders

 

[MikeB]

2 batteries = Belt
3 batteries = Belt & Suspenders

HAHAHA! That gave me a good chuckle

 

[VapingBad]

Omg there is a 250, too! Haha.

Ok, I think I get it. Thank for the explanation.

So is it safe to assume the 133 is a smaller form factor since it uses two batteries instead of three? Also, three batteries?! What do these things weigh? Do the fit in a pocket? Do I need to tighten my belt?

No it the same board, the 133 is a DNA 200 running is 2 cell mode and can be switched back to run at 200 W with 3 cells, the 250 has a 166 W 2 cell mode is the same way. It is because they are step down converters, only convert voltage downward, so although the max current is the same the max voltage is 2/3 in 2 cell mode.

 

[retird]

Omg there is a 250, too! Haha.

Ok, I think I get it. Thank for the explanation.

So is it safe to assume the 133 is a smaller form factor since it uses two batteries instead of three? Also, three batteries?! What do these things weigh? Do the fit in a pocket? Do I need to tighten my belt?

The DNA's are the boards placed in a device and there are many different devices. The manufacturers of the devices decide the form factor, the batteries required, the materials the device is made from, and etc. The size and weight varies depending on the device the manufacturers give you.

 

[MikeB]

The DNA's are the boards placed in a device and there are many different devices. The manufacturers of the devices decide the form factor, the batteries required, the materials the device is made from, and etc. The size and weight varies depending on the device the manufacturers give you.

Thanks! I think I'm getting this.

 

[louiesquared]

No it the same board, the 133 is a DNA 200 running is 2 cell mode and can be switched back to run at 200 W with 3 cells, the 250 has a 166 W 2 cell mode is the same way. It is because they are step down converters, only convert voltage downward, so although the max current is the same the max voltage is 2/3 in 2 cell mode.

I always wondered why the DNA 75 does 75 on a single 18650 but the DNA 200 only does 133 with dual 18650's.