Temperature Controlled wire

[dr g]

I've tried both ni200 and titanium grade 1 wire, and while I agree temp control as a technology is pretty nifty. As a "experienced" vaper, I'm not impressed with the results. Every body Vapes differently. I like my vape on the warmer side, usually with kanthal around 1.5ohms somewhere between 15w-20w. That gives me the heat, vapor and flavor I like. Now maybe because I've vape basically the same kind of build for so long, I'm spoiled? I'm resisting change? I dunno. I'm not able to reproduce the heat or flavor on temp control builds. I've tried and tried... I get plenty of vapor but it's down right cold almost. No where near the temp I've come to expect when vaping.

Not enough information provided to say but I'd wager you aren't turning temperature up high enough. Remember, kanthal is like having temperature set on infinity. In my experience you can get outright hot vapor from temperature control just fine.

 

[sando7]

^^^^^^^^^that's a fact, i been doing it w/Ni just fine here lately; using a single Ni coil @0.11 w/rayon on a Yep with temp set at 435 and joules @ 31 to 32....been playing with the temp and turning it down a bit while turning the Joules up, think i have found a good balance with my current set-up.

 

[Quantum Mech]

I like my vape on the warmer side, usually with kanthal around 1.5ohms somewhere between 15w-20w. That gives me the heat, vapor and flavor I like.

I just pulled a build that ran really hot without a trace of burning on the cotton that may give you the vape your looking for, it was so hot in my stm when chain vaping that the tip temp on my lips limited my use

I twisted 2 strands of Ni 29awg and wrapped 9 times around a 3mm bit which came it at 0.08

Got it all wicked and then made a tiny space between each wrap, running at 20j / 390f

Vaped real nice with loads of volume and picking out more flavour notes than I ever had in this home brew with kanthal plus more heat than I am used to

Only pulled it out as was advised to wash my wire before use which I have now and has improved the flavour even more

 

[mogur]

Temperature control has its ups and downs. Evolv has led the way into a new science. I am serious, here. This is not marketing bs. This really, really, is real.

Kanthal and NiChrome have a coefficiency of temp to resistance that rules them out as a viable temperature controller
coil material (using current technology). Yes, using a new coil metal (NI200) is a pain in the ...., but the change from NiChrome to Kanthal didn't break the bank, either.

Are there problems? Yes, let me count the ways.

1) The current programming.... yes, I am talking to you, Evolv and the other guys, suck. I could write better .... on a stick.
2) Ramp up the current until temp reached, but what is with the 'monitoring' recalibration? You don't need to try to figure out how the atomizer is cooling off. Just trust your initial calibration. If you need to go further, then experiment, verify, and justify, before simply ....ing with the settings, and incorporating it into user space.

PS that was cryptic for all but Evolv. Sorry. Let me 'xplain, Lucy. Evolv decided to add some crap to the temp control software that is currently screwing up the overall performance of their software. They know it. Some of us know it. They need to do............ better.

 

[Quantum Mech]

I don't think the software is the issue with TP
Its only reading resistance & throttling the power to the coil
To me it is the usual story of human error [or shall we say trial & error] & also in the mix is tanks that were never designed for such low ohm vaping
Many tanks are doing the job ok and the human factor are surviving in most cases
I have I presume been lucky as not getting any real issues although ni200 suddenly deciding to short between wraps mid vape was a surprise
Using the sx mini m but need to get a dna40 soon so can compare & see what suits me best

 

[dr g]

I would guess they didn't choose to trust the initial calibration because it's often wrong.
They didn't go through the trouble of making the board work this way for no reason.

This is the reason why you can't discuss temperature readings with any consistency with Yihi boards while with Evolv boards you can.

 

[twgbonehead]

Titanium is less responsive than nickel. You can apply an offset, but you will be wrong most of the time. What you really want is a metal that works for vaping. Use the actual response curve, and not the Ronald McDonald hamburgerler zip top.

I have used titanium wire even before there were TC mods (still don't own a TC mod) because I like the flavor better than Kanthal (Then again, I use 30-ga non-twisted, single coils). I think I like nichrome80 better, but both are great IMHO. I would put Nichrome60 at the bottom of the list; never tried nickel and don't really want to.

 

[Treeburner1983]

I'm not able to reproduce the heat or flavor on temp control builds. I've tried and tried... I get plenty of vapor but it's down right cold almost. No where near the temp I've come to expect when vaping.

Have you tried setting your temperature at 550-600°F? Should be plenty warm.

-Treeburner

 

[NotableVirtues]

I find that 300-350 degrees F is a sweet spot. I much prefer TI wire, have used ESG from Germany but dont like the wait; Spider silk is surgical grade 1 titanium wire and I got mine on ebay.

 

[Phone Guy]

I'm not sure why I'm not able to get the heat you guys are getting.... It's so frustrating reading these success stories and me having failure after failure.

Like I said, I get loads of vapor. But its cool vapor, and something I noticed on my glass drip tip going back to kanthal on the same tank, TC builds are obviously giving me a wetter vape, kanthal is giving me a dryer vape... There is more juice condensation in the clear glass drip tip using TC vs kanthal.

I've been really trying to commit to TC. And in my favorite atty right now which is a taifun gt2 with a glass drip tip wide bore, which collects juice condensation and I'm cleaning (drying) it routinely... Went back to a kanthal build and realized I didn't clean the drip tip at all... The condensation never pooled in the drip tip like ni200 or Ti does.????

 

[dr g]

I'm not sure why I'm not able to get the heat you guys are getting.... It's so frustrating reading these success stories and me having failure after failure.

Like I said, I get loads of vapor. But its cool vapor, and something I noticed on my glass drip tip going back to kanthal on the same tank, TC builds are obviously giving me a wetter vape, kanthal is giving me a dryer vape... There is more juice condensation in the clear glass drip tip using TC vs kanthal.

I've been really trying to commit to TC. And in my favorite atty right now which is a taifun gt2 with a glass drip tip wide bore, which collects juice condensation and I'm cleaning (drying) it routinely... Went back to a kanthal build and realized I didn't clean the drip tip at all... The condensation never pooled in the drip tip like ni200 or Ti does.????

What are your settings?

 

[Phone Guy]

Today I'm on the lemo 2, twisted Ti 30g 2 strands in the drill until it broke, so tight twist. 3mm coil, 5 spaced wraps, 0.43ohm. 350f 16w = cold vapor. Going much higher in temp I get burning taste. This is on genuine dna40.

 

[Croak]

Since that's a Ti build, you're running somewhere north of 450 in actual temps. And 16w is pretty damn low for that much coil mass besides, and a one second preheat only helps so much with that. It's not the same parameters as a 1.x ohm build on a Kayfun. Don't fear the power. Crank that wattage and let the board handle modulating it down for you when it needs to.

I pretty much stopped twisting my TC builds because I get better results with single strand with Ni and Ti (better flavor, more stability, no springiness issues, saves wire).

Also, clean the wire before you use it, it helps and what you think is burnt taste might well be wire residue burning off at higher temps. And keep playing with wicking, because after connection issues, that's the most important thing to dial in for a good consistent vape with TC builds. Getting the wicking right can let you run higher temps without burning, just like with Kanthal. Much also depends on airflow, if you're running MTL-tight draws, you're going to have more issues than with airflow suitable for lung hit, that's just the nature of the beast.

Finally, with a Kanthal build, you're probably running that TF2 much higher than 450F. Don't get hung up on that 420-450F "cotton burn" figure, that's totally dry cotton, which nobody vapes. Don't be afraid of setting it over 500F (once you get the wicking dialed in) if lower settings aren't scratching your warm vape itch.

 

[Phone Guy]

@Croak thanks for that detailed response. Here's what I've been experiencing, and what I've read, and I must be wrong somewhere?

I try to keep the wattage "sensible" because I hit temp protection which I've been told, is the thing to avoid. The trick is getting the temp and watts at a combination where you don't hit TP during the draw/puff.

I'm wiping the Ti wire with a damp napkin before building with it. Maybe I should clean it a little better?

I'm still getting used to these low resistances, using steam engine, etc. I'm use to kanthal (knowing how many wraps gets me in the ball park) but with ni200 or Ti, I'm not used to this many wraps yields that resistance. I like the Ti wire because the resistance is higher so the Coils are smaller... Those Insanely long ni200 Coils are hard to fit into the posts. The legs seem to always want to bend back into the coils...

Wicking, that's the million dollar question. I am not able to stuff cotton or Rayon into these softer Coils without deforming them like I was able to on kanthal Coils. I spend so much time examine the Coils to make sure they're not touching after wicking it's crazy, and its hard to see the bottoms obviously. So I may not be wicking properly, that one I openly admit too.

Airflow wise.. My son just got me the lemo 2 as a surprise gift yesterday, which has insane airflow - way more than I'm used to on either my Taifun or squape. I'm actually closing it about half way because the increase airflow is killing (diluting) the flavor for me.

 

[Croak]

The Temp Protection message isn't the sign of a failure (unless it happens almost instantly when firing, then it's a sign of a connection problem, hot leg or resistance mismatch). But to see it hit temp protect a few seconds into a pull is nothing to worry about.

As for coil length, try using 30ga if you want to stick with nickel, 5-6 wraps gets you to 0.1 ohm, 7-8 puts you at about 0.15. And with that few wraps on a Kayfun-esque build deck, there's plenty of room to get them spaced and not need a jeweler's loupe to inspect the spacing. With the atomizers in your sig, I strongly suggest you sink a few bucks into a spool of 30ga Ni200 before giving up on TC. Titanium on a DNA40 works, but it has its own issues, namely much less accuracy in displayed temps vs actual.

28ga is really (IMO) crap for a DNA40 because of the large coils needed to get even to the minimum ohm limit, and frankly, it's not that much easier to work with than 30ga. For a SX350J device and the 0.05 low limit, 28ga makes more sense.

About cleaning, what you're trying to do is remove the oils still on the wire from the production process. Water alone won't cut that residue, nor will friction alone. I keep a bottle of isopropyl alcohol handy, wet a paper towel with it, wipe my cut wire well with it, then go over it again a couple times with a dry towel. Vodka also works, but that's a waste of good medicine. Soap and water work too, but that means getting up and going to a sink.

If you're having trouble wicking through the coil without deforming the coil (and it can be tricky, but gets easier with practice), try the method in the video below, simplifies things a lot and you can pack as much (or as little) wick in the coil as you'd like:



EDIT: I generally run around 500-530F on my Kayfuns, Taifun, and Aqua V2 when I want a warm vape. And keep in mind that VG doesn't boil until over 540F so if you use thick 70%+ VG juices in the 400-450F range, you're simply not getting hot enough to do the juice justice. PG vaporizes at about 390F, so a 50/50 blend at 450-500 is a pretty good setting, and the more PG, the lower you want to set it.

 

[TheotherSteveS]

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