Tensioned Micro Coils. The next step.

[RGLP4Lyfe]

MactechVapor what is the rda above? The one with the tall center post and negatives on the deck? And the build that you said has run for half a year. I like the looks of it under the hood!! Thanks in advance!

-Mark

 

[MacTechVpr]

MactechVapor what is the rda above? The one with the tall center post and negatives on the deck? And the build that you said has run for half a year. I like the looks of it under the hood!! Thanks in advance!

-Mark

Good ? M, it's a limited edit. CE (black) Link RDA, basically a Zenesis spec mod done by mod maker Lance Wallen (steammonkey.com) and really designed to run big genny style silica singles.

However, the potential of this mod is radically expanded if you have a truly wickable fabric like NexT (which flows amazingly in this orientation with the right deflection) and a symmetrical tensioned wind. Then more difficult precise sets are possible if the thing's gonna hold together. And that's what I demonstrated here. A >.4Ω rig that vapes like .22-.25Ω I'm told. Great gushes of dense cool vapor volume with the head bored out to dual AF. I run a 2puffs AF tip with it as well for diffusion after the vape to get the clouds I need. It's actually a pleasure to build as the platform's so big and solid. Little tricky to get the long neg leads right with anything thinner than 26 and res is a consideration so I don't go there with duals.

The zRDA above usually rides a 650 in brass. I'm sorry I don't have a pic handy and I should of this awesome mod. But here's a CE 490 with a 454 from my original lineup in which I also run NexT verticals, occasionally a quad. I have an identical zRDA in stainless also on a steammonkey brass 650 batt.

Next project for the zRDA is a quad of the variety I labelled the monster, a twisted center post dual tensioned macro that runs as a single unit.

I'll try to go vertical with this as a split-pair and see how it performs in the zRDA. I'm a big fan of exuberant builds and I love twisted but complex multi-wire builds I don't play with as I focus on putting the wire on the wick. Not much use for the extra rubber if it ain't makin' traction. And I don't build for looks. I'll leave that to the young bucks and a steadier hand.

Good luck RGLP.



p.s. Mark you'll occasionally run into the CE or standard edit zRDA/mod in the funny papers. I can only recommend it. If you run across one or parts hail me…I'm always lookin'.

p.s.s. A little nod here to Lance's novel and understated performer the F.U.F.D.A. ▶The First Ursimian Fog Dispensing Apparatus which if he makes in brass/copper/both I'll likely collect too.

 

[Aal_]

Mac, when you twisted the wires for positive doesn't that disturb the coils? How do you do it?

 

[MacTechVpr]

Mac, when you twisted the wires for positive doesn't that disturb the coils? How do you do it?

Short answer: To twist center post or neg post leads select an appropriate clamp for your wind.

I use a pair of bits to keep the sides straight on verticals. On quads just one side at a time. Either drill bits if a short device or drill blanks if longer are required. If I need a free hand (or two, lol) I clamp the bits to themselves or a post. When I tighten or move an element it's always supported at the top or bottom of the bit or both. When stability is needed and I'm pulling a specific end turn, I support the end turn with the shank of an instrument screw driver, e.g. to tension the center lead out towards the air hole, fix and lock its position. This helps keep the end turn tight to the bit and coherent to the rest of the coil. Problem there is space for the bottom end turn adjustment or set for a vertical. But there's a simple answer…clamp it. Either with a small tight clamp or a forceps for example.

The important thing is to keep those end turns tight to bit when any movement is made. The zRDA's a challenge because light wire's too springy for all that. But heavier gauge has to be man-handled to get it into position. Any wire that thick you pull on is going to affect the coil. The challenge of rebuilding is that it seems every single device requires a different mechanical approach. Fun, but it takes some thought at times. Why I respect all you guys and all that you bring to the table.

Whenever I'm handling or moving a coil I'm always supporting the spine (closed back of coil) with at least a finger, if not actually clamping it somehow.

Also, I'll run off a half dozen or more coils. They always sit tightly on the bit they're wound until installed. So I use multiple bits.

I try never to remove the coil from the bit if at all possible. On some devices as I described above you need to use another tool, an instrument screwdriver to maintain the ends turns. The shank should be identical in diameter or you'll fudge the end turn i.d.

Yes maintaining symmetry is paramount to good performance and that's why I like the pin vise. You can wind duals on separate drill blanks…loosen the collet reversing the pin to place the straight (last turn) against the collet face…dewind the negative lead…then install that stick straight lead right in to your device positive…set that lead's position, tighten the pos screw and tension the coil outwards while leaving the neg side installed but loose…loosen the pos set screw slightly and repeat the preceding for the opposite side's coil, tighten positive down. You now have two coils in place with perfect pos lead tensioned position. You never removed the coils from the bit. Now in turn, carefully reinforce the neg end turn using the face of the collect…pulling the neg lead taught as you push in the end turn with the collet face. Do this for both coils and you end up with two identically spaced and shaped neg leads and stick straight positives right in front of the air holes. Every time, picture perfect, and you hardly touched the coil.

That's what I like.

Some believe that pre-shaping is the answer to avoiding deviations to the coil. However, when you think about it, whether you leave the coil on the original winding bit or another…you're going to have to keep even tension on the wind regardless (if you have a microcoil). The biggest risk having done countless tank builds is inadvertently pushing up on an end turn so its not congruous to the coil anymore or tightening too much on an end reducing it's diameter. Time to toss it. It's not going to run at expected res and will likely have a multitude of temp deviations. The end turns are vital to consistency. If the end turns are loose as not supported at install it's performance is a crap shoot. Maintaining symmetry through the end turns is what guarantees the end-to-end temperature uniformity that a tensioned microcoil can deliver.

I support the shape of the wind throughout installation as even a small amount of energy input can overcome turn-to-turn adhesion we strained into the wire. But that's why I love tensioned coils Aal. I know I can duplicate the same damned exact coil each and every time. So if I sh!!t one, I'll have another in seconds.

With that kind of confidence you just put your nose down and go Larry Czonka on it.

Forget the hobby…I wanna vape!



Good luck.

 

[MrStik]

Question on what amount of tension would be "just right" I don't mind keeping manual tension as I wind the gizmo, but my end goal is to have external tension applied to the end of the wire as I wind the coil which will allow me to have a free hand. Anyone have any estimates as to how many pounds of pressure would optimal?

 

[geekmedic]

Question on what amount of tension would be "just right" I don't mind keeping manual tension as I wind the gizmo, but my end goal is to have external tension applied to the end of the wire as I wind the coil which will allow me to have a free hand. Anyone have any estimates as to how many pounds of pressure would optimal?

Not sure about the tension poundage, but check YT for SuperX he used a fly reel (for fly fishing) and set the drag. Genius IMHO!

 

[MrStik]

Not sure about the tension poundage, but check YT for SuperX he used a fly reel (for fly fishing) and set the drag. Genius IMHO!

LOL.. ok.. Everytime I think I have a cool idea, SuperX beats me to it... A day late and a dollar short..

Thx for the video.. I thought I had checked out all his vids... But I missed this one.

 

[super_X_drifter]

Not sure about the tension poundage, but check YT for SuperX he used a fly reel (for fly fishing) and set the drag. Genius IMHO!

Thank you. I set the drag till just below the breaking point of the wire. In other words, one more click and the 29 ga breaks on the first wrap

 

[super_X_drifter]

LOL.. ok.. Everytime I think I have a cool idea, SuperX beats me to it... A day late and a dollar short..

Thx for the video.. I thought I had checked out all his vids... But I missed this one.

Thank you but I think it was either Bills Magic Vapor or Sedge ( or both or none ) who beat me too the reel deal. I know I saw it on ECF I just don't remember who it was

I'm just a hillbilly with one of them thar videuh camruhs and the will to demonstrate how I get such a kick ayuss vape with such simple gear

 

[rks1949]

I had some white oak stock laying around in the shop,and some 2.5 mm drill bit stock,so I decided to try and make a coil winder. It works really well,and the coils look perfect. Now I need to make a tension,adjuster for the wire,and it should be good to go!

 

[MacTechVpr]

Thank you but I think it was either Bills Magic Vapor or Sedge ( or both or none ) who beat me too the reel deal. I know I saw it on ECF I just don't remember who it was

I'm just a hillbilly with one of them thar videuh camruhs and the will to demonstrate how I get such a kick ayuss vape with such simple gear

Good morning crew, Russ. A fly reel drag is definitely one possible alternative. And no you're not. You're one savvy vaper dude.

Look, I started working out concepts and prototypes in the first few months after I quit before I started posting on ECF Aug 2-13. But all of these proved too complicated to just get folks quickly up and running, past the misery to success. There had to be a simpler way to apply the principles of tension and there were. I was just avoiding the obvious.

The cheap Shakespeare reel was one of the options I suggested to Bill's Magic Vapor sometime just after Feb 3 of last year as he was putting together his prototype for this outstanding mechanized tensioned jig….the one that Sedge was talking about here. It was suggested as a possible solution to account for variations in tension and how important this was to uniform performance.

And I did mention it to you with my post Of fly reels and tension coils… responding to mnementh666, a new poster who apparently learned to do an advanced search perhaps realizing that...

To give credit to perhaps the first posting of a t.m.c. jig concept we need to go back to the previous Dec '13. To a fella long gone and missed on the ProtankMicro thread, Jellyfish. He and I were talkin' off-channel about about this very issue of keeping tension constant and variable and static drag as I mentioned alternatives to pinning the wire in a vise as per his sketch.

I was kinda leading him when I answered him overnight...

I see some way to affix a spool of wire directly as the feed and a means to apply and adjust drag to the spool, as it feeds out to the crank. Perhaps as simple as a pair of rubber grommet like often found on camera tripods and metal spacer to impart resistance on the spool. Damn, now you got me headin' for that electric fence again...And here I said I didn't want to be a fly fisherman.

The gist of it is, I didn't want to build a jig, or puck or any device to do it. There's plenty of us around to make applications of tension. My goal has been to get people to a proper electrical wind and a dependable vape A.S.A.P. If for some that means a jig, I'm down.

But the uniformity of tension is just as important as the geometrical symmetry whether we realize we're using these two principles or not each and every time we make a coil, any kind of coil.

The issue is whether we use these principles effectively and successfully.

Good luck all.

 

[super_X_drifter]

Good morning crew, Russ. A fly reel drag is definitely one possible alternative. And no you're not. You're one savvy vaper dude.

Look, I started working out concepts and prototypes in the first few months after I quit before I started posting on ECF Aug 2-13. But all of these proved too complicated to just get folks quickly up and running, past the misery to success. There had to be a simpler way to apply the principles of tension and there were. I was just avoiding the obvious.

The cheap Shakespeare reel was one of the options I suggested to Bill's Magic Vapor sometime just after Feb 3 of last year as he was putting together his prototype for this outstanding mechanized tensioned jig….the one that Sedge was talking about here. It was suggested as a possible solution to account for variations in tension and how important this was to uniform performance.

And I did mention it to you with my post Of fly reels and tension coils… responding to mnementh666, a new poster who apparently learned to do an advanced search perhaps realizing that...

To give credit to perhaps the first posting of a t.m.c. jig concept we need to go back to the previous Dec '13. To a fella long gone and missed on the ProtankMicro thread, Jellyfish. He and I were talkin' off-channel about about this very issue of keeping tension constant and variable and static drag as I mentioned alternatives to pinning the wire in a vise as per his sketch.

I was kinda leading him when I answered him overnight...



The gist of it is, I didn't want to build a jig, or puck or any device to do it. There's plenty of us around to make applications of tension. My goal has been to get people to a proper electrical wind and a dependable vape A.S.A.P. If for some that means a jig, I'm down.

But the uniformity of tension is just as important as the geometrical symmetry whether we realize we're using these two principles or not each and every time we make a coil, any kind of coil.

The issue is whether we use these principles effectively and successfully.

Good luck all.

Thanks for the correction Mac . My memory sucks when it comes to remembering stuff I saw months ago. Figures that you were the hombre involved in the concept

 

[MacTechVpr]

Thanks for the correction Mac . My memory sucks when it comes to remembering stuff I saw months ago. Figures that you were the hombre involved in the concept

Well, I had the notion. The others had the gumption. LOL

Take care and good luck!

 

[MacTechVpr]

I had some white oak stock laying around in the shop,and some 2.5 mm drill bit stock,so I decided to try and make a coil winder. It works really well,and the coils look perfect. Now I need to make a tension,adjuster for the wire,and it should be good to go! View attachment 405104

Some nice bends there rks. A bracket there for your Shakespeare and you've got yourself a nice rig!

Good luck.

 

[Moxienator]

Hey guys. I started in on the KFL+. I loaded it with DIY unflavored and got the viscosity just right. Finally. Pimped it out SOV style, and copied the 5/64ths coil from the squonker. It works flawlessly.

Russ- I switched back to your "freehand-style" of wrapping, where you wrap on the mandrel AWAY from the yolk. I can get repeatable perfect coils. FINALLY. Thanks dude!

Mac- cohesion is beautiful. More importantly, it works. Thank you!

Lovin' life right now!

sent via Droid Mini

 

[MacTechVpr]

Hey guys. I started in on the KFL+. I loaded it with DIY unflavored and got the viscosity just right. Finally. Pimped it out SOV style, and copied the 5/64ths coil from the squonker. It works flawlessly.

Russ- I switched back to your "freehand-style" of wrapping, where you wrap on the mandrel AWAY from the yolk. I can get repeatable perfect coils. FINALLY. Thanks dude!

Mac- cohesion is beautiful. More importantly, it works. Thank you!

Lovin' life right now!

sent via Droid Mini

That's what we all love to hear. Some nice kit there guy.

Good luck moxie. Keep it sticky and enjoy!

 

[MacTechVpr]

A tensioned nano/macro/micro coil is a pretty easy thing to do. I can prob show most anyone the basic mechanics in just one brief session. Not so for yours truly though. Huh, huh. Twitchy fumble fingers here has to try every hard way of doing things. And here's a case in point.

Trying to work out the approach to adapt MattyB1503's Twisted center post duals to a unified tensioned micro, I did a bang up job…I mean, I really banged it up bad…

Not the consistent symmetrical uniformly heating output of the final version…

Which just goes to show that there is a learning curve to understanding for example just where the symmetry comes from. Comparing the two pic's you can see some obvious examples. For one the twisted center lead's turn exit point which is vital to the cohesion of both coils so that they fire as a single unit. The other blatant potential trouble source, the unbalanced negative lead symmetry.

For each of us it takes a bit of time to make these careful observations as to what the device and wind need to be balanced with each other. As well to adapt the appropriate tools that work for us and learn the necessary muscle movements to use them consistently.

For a simple tensioned microcoil that is easy. Get that and the world is your oyster.

And a tensioned microcoil becomes your instrument of battle.

Good luck.

 

[super_X_drifter]

Here are 4 TMC full contact using 29 Ga kanthal that I wound yesterday using this latest adaptation (see below) to my quest for identical tension in every coil, every wind. Yep I had to kill a fishing rod. That rubber nipple on the end of the handle is abutted to the edge of the desk and once the wire is affixed into the gizmo I reel in the wire so it's taught. Then I start winding and what results are the most uniformly tensioned full contact micro coils this chaps' ever wound

These coils are all just slightly larger than 1/16" inside diameter and all meter in the 0.6 ohm range. They are ready for my retrofit SS adjustable 510s on my REO grands to arrive. That REO grand in the pic already has the new connector and it kills

Here's a vid of it

http://youtu.be/mHKviKQoXgQ

One thing that confuses me is why portability of coil making gear is always mentioned? How many people actually recoil on the road? Why wouldn't one just wind up extra coils and take them?[emoji15]

I've never had a coil fail in 2 years and never even burned a wick / replaced one on the road.

 

[Moxienator]

One thing that confuses me is why portability of coil making gear is always mentioned? How many people actually recoil on the road? Why wouldn't one just wind up extra coils and take them?[emoji15]

I've never had a coil fail in 2 years and never even burned a wick / replaced one on the road.

When I first started out with my kayfun, the issues I was having with scorched wicking and burning juice that was too thick or gunky led me to carry coiling gear with me.

I work in a boiler room where I'm at a desk for 8hrs with complete freedom to do as I please (as long as I pay SOME attention to the boilers [emoji14]) this made it easy to rewick and dry burn every day. (Man I wish I started off unflavored!!!)

Rewicking everyday meant a lot of fiddling with the internals, which gave a greater probability of bumping the coil, and ruining it. Thus the need to have at least a rebuild kit and possibly a coiling jig on the road.

Since getting into BF mods (specifically the peko) I still need to rewick everyday (very sweet, thick, gunky juice - see my banner) but because its a cyclone, it makes it easy.

I still carry my kits with me. I can make a lot of coils in 8hrs. Now I use empty battery cases to store extra coils - all of them are 29g 7wraps 5/64" ID Tensioned coils - which I use in everything. My kayfun and cyclones have one, my derringer has two. This way, when I do need one, they are already built and ready to go.

I also cut up my Muji cotton pads to be very close to actual wick size. I get like 40 wicks per pad when I'm really focused and cut carefully. So at any given time, I can rewick if need be. See above re: gunky juices that I like...

Now I don't need the coiling kit, but I can use it in my spare time (which I have a TON of while I'm at work anyway).

You don't need one because you're Vaping unflavored which causes almost no gunk, so coils and wicks last an inordinate amount of time. And because you are "Bottom Feeder" ( in a good way, lol ) you shouldn't ever burn your wick unless you just don't squonk at all. Basically, BF mods made the travelling rebuild/coiling kit obsolete.

My kayfun is on day three -same wick and coil- since the switch to unflavored. I've never gotten this much out of one wick before, and its really due to what juice is going in my tank.

sisn via Droid Mini

 

[Moxienator]

Peko kit:
Extra wicks (15 or so), couple coils, Allen key for cyclone posts, 5/64ths bit for re-coiling, SOG crosscut, and delrin DT for the cold weather

Rebuilding kits:

Basically every single tool needed to completely overhaul an atomizer.

Now, its just really peace of mind. And a lot of pre-spun coils.

sent via Droid Mini