The Cola Method Taken to Another Level That Works
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Nuck,
Was that full strength or dilluted?
Sounds like you guys have this issue all sorted out.
Well Done!
Was that full strength or dilluted?
Sounds like you guys have this issue all sorted out.
Well Done!
Nuck - great to hear good news 
Tin Cup, Stratovation - good idea about the sticky warning thing; yes, there is still a bit more work to do before it can be a generally advisable approach. Perhaps weaker + heat would be a safer approach for geneal use. A coffee maker hot plate or usb cup warmer would both be simple ways of heating the saok to around 80C safely with no chance of boiling.
Anyone with access to a mass spectrometer? Quite simple kit these days. University chemistry departments usually have them. Would be great to analyse a deposit sample - the stuff is so intruiging, and of course knowing what it is would help design the solution (and perhaps peventon too). Certainly seems to be some (probably heat induced) hardening going on.
edit (add): some juices may contain resins; for example, quite likly if tobacco soaks are included as a flavoring. Furthermore, consider how calcium carbonate can form strong substances by the addition of trace amounts of other elements/compounds (for example, teeth and bones). And concrete. Chalk deposits around/on hot tap are harder to remove than those around cold tap. Clay fired into pottery. Irrelevant but interesting other illustrative examples are carbon in iron to give steel; graphite, soot and diamond are all structural forms of carbon.
I still betting on mostly inorganic minerals like calcium carbonate forming the bulk f the deposits, but I just want to seek out the truth of the matter!
Tin Cup, Stratovation - good idea about the sticky warning thing; yes, there is still a bit more work to do before it can be a generally advisable approach. Perhaps weaker + heat would be a safer approach for geneal use. A coffee maker hot plate or usb cup warmer would both be simple ways of heating the saok to around 80C safely with no chance of boiling.
Anyone with access to a mass spectrometer? Quite simple kit these days. University chemistry departments usually have them. Would be great to analyse a deposit sample - the stuff is so intruiging, and of course knowing what it is would help design the solution (and perhaps peventon too). Certainly seems to be some (probably heat induced) hardening going on.
edit (add): some juices may contain resins; for example, quite likly if tobacco soaks are included as a flavoring. Furthermore, consider how calcium carbonate can form strong substances by the addition of trace amounts of other elements/compounds (for example, teeth and bones). And concrete. Chalk deposits around/on hot tap are harder to remove than those around cold tap. Clay fired into pottery. Irrelevant but interesting other illustrative examples are carbon in iron to give steel; graphite, soot and diamond are all structural forms of carbon.
I still betting on mostly inorganic minerals like calcium carbonate forming the bulk f the deposits, but I just want to seek out the truth of the matter!
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Nuck --Wow 25 hours! I have to revisit some that I gave up on after 14 hours. This would make sense as Nuck reports a longer time then anyone has tired with no degregation to his atomizer.--This is a very encouraging report from the experimental front Nuck and we appreciate your stepping up to the plate with your experiment and its report. Thanks for all of your efforts and if you experiment again, please keep us posted.----Sun
No.....I have ordered some Jenolite rust remover.....as far as I can tell that is concentrated phosporic acid.
I really don't know I can't seem to find any data sheets on the internet about it......all I know is that it is supposed to be phosphoric acid...which apparently is a great rust remover.
i'm thinking... is this method any better than the h2o2 method?
i mean, it is not acid (just water with a second oxygen atom),
it cleans both,the coil and the wick,
and it does it almost instantly by heating the coil.
don't get me wrong i haven't tried any method yet,
i'm just curious why are you (all) still after the acid method,
and kinda skiped the h2o2 method.
I still rate H2O2 highly. But the success of H2O2 in Exogenesis' approach is down to the heat (in place heating). The phosphoric acid could act fast with heat too. But they are both caustic at suitable concentrations. As I have said before the best approach would be to use H2O2 first, rinse well, phosphoric acid (or perhaps citric acid instead) second.
For now it is surly worth pursuing both avenues. Head to head tseting on very similar attys would be interesting to try, using the same approach, whether cold soak or heated in jar or atomizer heated.
Also, i would like to see some testing of citric acid (from the pure powder rather than from lemons), as it might leave no deposit itself when used as the 'cleaner' (because it is an inorganic acid).
For now it is surly worth pursuing both avenues. Head to head tseting on very similar attys would be interesting to try, using the same approach, whether cold soak or heated in jar or atomizer heated.
Also, i would like to see some testing of citric acid (from the pure powder rather than from lemons), as it might leave no deposit itself when used as the 'cleaner' (because it is an inorganic acid).
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Jenolite rust remover 35% phos.acid
http://www.buckandhickman.com/Assets/BuckHickman/DataSheets/DS_317297.pdf
Don't use the jelly 'rust converter' it's something completely different.
parapo, the H2O2 method hasn't gone away,
when I get a 'naturally' really bad atomizer again I'll post results.
(plus I think it's a damn sight safer from various points of view).
Phos acid seems to work well though, hopefully more players will join in
and post results.
kinabaloo, I was thinking about that as well - a combined method, might be good
http://www.buckandhickman.com/Assets/BuckHickman/DataSheets/DS_317297.pdf
Don't use the jelly 'rust converter' it's something completely different.
parapo, the H2O2 method hasn't gone away,
when I get a 'naturally' really bad atomizer again I'll post results.
(plus I think it's a damn sight safer from various points of view).
Phos acid seems to work well though, hopefully more players will join in
and post results.
kinabaloo, I was thinking about that as well - a combined method, might be good
I did try boiling in Hydrogen peroxide...and it didn't do anything for me..although I didn't try heating the coils themselves with it on. I wouldn't be able to see if it makes any difference on the working atomizers that I use now because they are the penstyle type....all my cleaning experiments being done on dead atomizers with no circuit....so I am looking for something that will just dissolve the build up on those.
Exogenesis - the thinking being : oxidise first (what can be), then acid reduction of the oxides and minerals. There is a problem here though - these can absolutely not be mixed; someone might try to save time by doing this - boom!
Well found exo.......that actually says it's only 25% damn, I don't know if that will be strong enough...I have had some atts soaking in 5% for about 5 days now with no sign of any change at all.
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Surbiton Pete - you could try taking one atty, rinsing it out etc and trying it. You might find the deposit falls off after 5-10 mins of vaping; that's what I found after a vinegar soak. Seemed no change, vaped, looked again, clean
surbitonPete - you're right, 25% not 35%, I cant read, doh!
Sounds interesting.
Need some uniformly gunked coils to test the treatment order.
I did set up an 'auto-vaper' rig, it was smoking away famously
(with 36mg Tobacco, which I dislike so might as well use it up like this).
but the coil went blew-out, gah.
Boom, would almost be funny, in a way, at least the atomizer would be clean.
Do they react explosively ?
Sounds interesting.
Need some uniformly gunked coils to test the treatment order.
I did set up an 'auto-vaper' rig, it was smoking away famously
(with 36mg Tobacco, which I dislike so might as well use it up like this).
but the coil went blew-out, gah.
Boom, would almost be funny, in a way, at least the atomizer would be clean.
Do they react explosively ?
Exogenesis - interesting photos - very lab-like!
Need to be able to draw air through when auto-vaping (pump and splitter for dripping?) and allow off-time too. But yes, that's the way to go ...
Need to be able to draw air through when auto-vaping (pump and splitter for dripping?) and allow off-time too. But yes, that's the way to go ...
Good to hear, Nuck.
I assume you used the Nu-Calcon Nickel Safe Ice Machine Cleaner?
Or was it a nickel safe solution made by another company?
Yes. That's the stuff I used and I used it at full strength.
I filled a little bottle about 1/2 full and dropped the atomizer in it. Every time I thought about it I'd give the bottle a bit of a shake. (5-6 times total during the 25 hours).
I'm going to stress the atomizer all night (I have a work deadline
) and will let you know if there are any issues at all. I don't expect any, it looks really good.
Nuck -
Not sure if this makes a difference, but you got better results with the Nu-Calgon than I got using Manitowac Nickel-safe. After a 24 hour soak I saw improvement, but not completely clean.
I'm using an atomizer off a pen-style that I took apart, so I can see what's happening without taking it out of the baby food jar I'm using to soak it in. (My wife tried to make me eat the apricots that came in it, but I sneaked them to the dog - hahahaha).
Anyway, I wonder if the gunk came off from the heat when you vaped, or were you able to see the heating element as you soaked the atty?
TC
I had to remove it before I could see it and even then I had to hold it up to sunlight to get a decent view. It was clean straight out of the liquid before I started vaping though. If I get a chance tomorrow I will get one of those magnifying glass stands everyone seems to have and see if I can get a pic or two.
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