The check list

[011COACH]

So I'm getting to the end of Allen Carr's book. Those of you who have read the book know that he is not very fond of substitutes, and I quote:

THE CHECK LIST
If you follow these simple instructions, you cannot fail.
1. Make a solemn vow that you will never, ever, smoke, chew or suck anything that contains
nicotine, and stick to your vow.
...
6. DO NOT use any form of substitute.
DO NOT keep your own cigarettes.
DO NOT avoid other smokers.
DO NOT change your lifestyle in any way purely because you've stopped smoking.
If you follow the above instructions, you will soon experience the moment of revelation. But:
...

www. allencarr .com

...Now, Mr. Carr died in 2006; while PV's were still in their infancy. Points 1 & 6 clearly state not to use any substitutes. I however am on my 8th consecutive day off cigarettes. The "little monster", as far as I'm concerned is nearly, if not already DEAD. You see, at this point, I'm not convinced it's nicotine, but one of the other (or combination of) the 4000+ chemicals ingested from burning tobacco.

There's a lot more to this than what I'm leading on, but would be particularly interested in what a former smoker has to say... Let me explain this a little better; what I meant was, someone who quit smoking for an extended period of time (year(s)?), but then took up vaping (w/nic)...

Did feeding that little ....... make it worse, or was it something else all along???

 

[CommaHolly]

I've been quit and on vaping for 16 months,,,,,,

I am now nic free,,,,,,,,,that took about a year to get to that point. I don't want, nor crave a single cigarette.

I once quit smoking for seven years cold turkey, no substitutes,,,,,,,I craved cigarettes every single one of those seven years. (and then I caved and went back to smoking)
'
Mr Carr's method may have worked for him,,,,,,,

but it most certainly did not work for me.

 

[CreepyLady]

CommaHolly - I just had a VERY similar conversation with a family member last night (which resulted in me jumping on putting a kit together and sending it out today!!)

Anyways- back on track - I had a very profound revelation as I made this statement - I said that "I have quit smoking, cold turkey, extended periods of time - and - well - I WANTED to smoke every second of every day until I fell off the wagon and went back. No matter if it was a time that I quit for months, days, weeks or years... I WANTED to smoke. This time, vaping, is the only time that I have ever quit and you couldn't pay me to light a cigarette and smoke it."

I had never even really had this occur to me until I said it, but its true.

 

[sk8r]

I am really unclear about your question? Are you saying that the addiction itself is not to nic., but something else?

If so, I think I kinda agree - let me explain - I smoked heavily for 45 years, and tried every possible quitting-aid there is - patch, gum, inhaler, Zyban etc etc. Nothing worked for more than a couple of days, ever.

Then, I tried vaping, and haven't smoked in almost 7 months - without one single craving, ever. So, I'm thinking that it wasn't just a 'nicotine delivery' I needed, but something that kinda felt a bit like smoking, if you see what I mean. So my (uncertain) conclusion is that my addiction is not just nicotine, but the whole hand-to-mouth thing, the inhaling, etc etc.

But frankly, I don't care. Whatever the addiction is, I feel SO much better and I am SO much healthier generally, without the smoke, that I continue to regard vaping as a life-saver.

 

[CommaHolly]

I am really unclear about your question? Are you saying that the addiction itself is not to nic., but something else?

If so, I think I kinda agree - let me explain - I smoked heavily for 45 years, and tried every possible quitting-aid there is - patch, gum, inhaler, Zyban etc etc. Nothing worked for more than a couple of days, ever.

Then, I tried vaping, and haven't smoked in almost 7 months - without one single craving, ever. So, I'm thinking that it wasn't just a 'nicotine delivery' I needed, but something that kinda felt a bit like smoking, if you see what I mean. So my (uncertain) conclusion is that my addiction is not just nicotine, but the whole hand-to-mouth thing, the inhaling, etc etc.

But frankly, I don't care. Whatever the addiction is, I feel SO much better and I am SO much healthier generally, without the smoke, that I continue to regard vaping as a life-saver.

I totally agree,,,I am far more addicted to the hand to mouth than I EVER was to the nicotine,,,,,,,,,,YMMV, but that's me

 

[White Rabbit]

Coach

I also agree with CommaHolly. I smoked for 50 years, quitting was easy I did it hundreds of times.

Vaping is like a pacifier for adults. I am not convinced that it is entirely the nicotine because I vape no nic juice off and on and it is just as satisfying as my regular 6 mg nic mix. I started at 18 mg nic solutions and quickly reduced that to 12 mg then 6 mg for my normal vaping.

I have been off analogs for one year almost to the day. Never looked back after the first week. Vaping just satisfies the hand to mouth habit, seeing the vapor, tasting new flavors and to some extent supplying some nicotine.

Don't give up

Best Wishes
The Wabbit

 

[OlDogNewTricks]

After smoking for 37 years, I am very happily smoke-free. That isn't to say that I ever wanted to quit, I absolutely love smoking, always have and I believe always will. I had to quit for health reasons and cannot express my gratitude for vaping and this forum. Both honestly saved my life as I would never have quit. I know that there are risks associated with vaping, but after what I have done to myself, they are in my humble opinion, marginal. I hope that you get out of this what you are looking for, that's the goal. Good luck and have fun!

 

[EvilZoe]

I never would have even TRIED to quit if I hadn't tried vaping. I was simply too terrified to entertain the thought.

 

[alexl22]

I agree with the whole hand to mouth thing, and will add routine i.e. something to do while driving, after eating, sex, on break at work etc.

 

[mare ze dotes]

#9 refuse all suggestions that do not work and find your own way.

 

[011COACH]

Day 9 & still smoke free @ 12mg/ml. Thank you everyone for your comments/suggestions.

Anyway, maybe I wasn't clear with my initial question. I'm looking to hear from a former smoker (not someone who quit using pv's). Someone who had quit and has at least a few years under their belt. Someone who one day decided to try vaping out of curiosity (or whatever other reason). If there is any of you out there that fill the bill, I'm sure we'd all like to hear from you.

 

[cmdebrecht]

Anyways- back on track - I had a very profound revelation as I made this statement - I said that "I have quit smoking, cold turkey, extended periods of time - and - well - I WANTED to smoke every second of every day until I fell off the wagon and went back. No matter if it was a time that I quit for months, days, weeks or years... I WANTED to smoke. This time, vaping, is the only time that I have ever quit and you couldn't pay me to light a cigarette and smoke it."

I had never even really had this occur to me until I said it, but its true.

Tales of ex-smokers like this are what made me afraid to even try to quit smoking. The thought of knowing that I would crave cigs for years and years exhausted me. I just kept thinking of all those after dinner cigs I would crave, and all those hours and hours of driving that I wouldn't be able to pass with a stinky. It just seemed impossible.

Now, even though I vape with nic, I am confident that I could give it up (not entirely painlessly, of course) without an overwhelming sense of dread.

So I believe that the nic is only a small piece of the cigarette smoking addiction puzzle.

 

[mbonanni]

Tales of ex-smokers like this are what made me afraid to even try to quit smoking. The thought of knowing that I would crave cigs for years and years exhausted me. I just kept thinking of all those after dinner cigs I would crave, and all those hours and hours of driving that I wouldn't be able to pass with a stinky. It just seemed impossible.

Now, even though I vape with nic, I am confident that I could give it up (not entirely painlessly, of course) without an overwhelming sense of dread.

So I believe that the nic is only a small piece of the cigarette smoking addiction puzzle.

This absolutely.

I think there is a bigger oral fixation/hand mouth addiction than there is addiction to nicotine.

I cannot personally speak from experience as I have never smoked a cigarette in my life, but I can say I have a crave/addiction of having smoke/vapor coming from my mouth. I vape 0mg juice, and can hardly even stand the 6mg juice. If I have never had a cigarette, and do not like to vape juice with even the lowest amount of nic, then why do I vape? For pure enjoyment of doing trick and blowing vapor away.

Sorry for the off-topicness

Goodluck

 

[011COACH]

So I believe that the nic is only a small piece of the cigarette smoking addiction puzzle.

Agreed.

...then why do I vape? For pure enjoyment of doing trick and blowing vapor away. Goodluck

F'ing hilarious!

 

[DC2]

The longer you vape, the more you realize it wasn't really about the nicotine so much.
There are, however, people who are most definitely exceptions.

I have come to believe that there are certainly people who are more addicted to the nicotine than others.
But I also firmly believe that many (if not most) smokers are not nearly as addicted to nicotine as they think they are.

There is no doubt in my mind that nicotine is not nearly as addictive as society has been led to believe.
And in fact, most real science is showing that to be the case for the most part.

Links provided upon request.

 

[011COACH]

There is no doubt in my mind that nicotine is not nearly as addictive as society has been led to believe.

This ^^^

ps. post the links anyway

 

[DC2]

Nicotine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Technically, nicotine is not significantly addictive, as nicotine administered alone does not produce significant reinforcing properties. However, after coadministration with an MAOI, such as those found in tobacco, nicotine produces significant behavioral sensitization, a measure of addiction potential.

Tobacco smoke contains the monoamine oxidase inhibitors harman, norharman, anabasine, anatabine, and nornicotine. These compounds significantly decrease MAO activity in smokers. MAO enzymes break down monoaminergic neurotransmitters such as dopamine, norepinephrine, and serotonin. It is thought that the powerful interaction between the MAOI's and the nicotine is responsible for most of the addictive properties of tobacco smoking.

Here is similar information from a study by an Arizona State professor emeritus...
Professor: Nicotine does not cause cigarette addiction | The State Press - An independent daily serving Arizona State University


And might want to read these too...

Growing List of Positive Effects of Nicotine Seen in Neurodegenerative Disorders

Obviously the results of small studies often aren't replicated in larger studies, but at least nicotine certainly looks safe. And we've seen absolutely no withdrawal symptoms. There doesn't seem to be any abuse liability whatsoever in taking nicotine by patch in non-smokers. That's reassuring.”

Nicotine treatment for ulcerative colitis

No withdrawal symptoms suggesting nicotine addiction have been reported either after 4–6 weeks of therapy in short-term studies, or after a period of up to 6 months in the only long-term study available.

 

[011COACH]

Awesome, thanks!

 

[bam2873]

I totally agree,,,I am far more addicted to the hand to mouth than I EVER was to the nicotine,,,,,,,,,,YMMV, but that's me

I totally agree. Also, I think I'm equally addicted to the "full" feeling in my lungs that smoking always provided, and that vaping now replaces. That's why no other quit-smoking tools (Nic gum, nic patch, etc.) ever had staying power with me. I *so* missed that full lung feeling. I'm thrilled to have found vaping!

 

[Bob Chill]

Cigs are a standalone tobacco product. Pipe and cigar smokers do not suffer the severe withdrawal nor do chewers. Cigs are carefully engineered to grab like a vice and never let go.

I always knew it wasn't the nic. If it was, lozenges and gum would work. I used both off and on for years and the only thing they ever did was take some of the edge of the grip off to tolerable levels but never ever felt comfortable.

Nic is a piece of the puzzle but not even a key piece to the powerful addiction. It's the mind for sure imo. The maoi part of the equation is the devil. I realized this when wellbutrin worked for me 10 years ago. But I relapsed with ease less than 2 years later. I personally hated the side effects of wellbutrin but I have to give it credit where credit is due. It was effective.

Serotonin imbalance in the brain takes anywhere from 1-6 months to even out. That's why there's a hollow feeling when most smokers switch to vaping. I certainly felt it but vaping was a powerful enough substitute to allow me to remain comfortable enough to stick with it with relative ease. I'm sure many have experienced the same thing. My mind got "right" within a month. It took my best friend a little longer but he got through the period pretty easy too.

Everyone's mind is different. Some struggle more with the transitionnd that's probably why WTA can be the key to success for some.

I think in some ways, vaping is a mind trick. It's close enough to the habit and gives enough reinforcement to let the brain continue the mood lift that cigs do but not requiring actual maoi effects on the chemistry. I'm expecting future studies to show this.

I also think those who do zero nic and still vape are getting mood satisfaction from the act. Smoking cigs for a long time can permanently change brain chemistry. I'm fairly certain it has for me. And I'm very thankful for having an option to keep my mind "right" without continuing a habit that is going to kill me or trying to fight the endless grip and feeling agitated and mentally imbalanced.