Chemical Purge to Nic Free

[AndriaD]

The throat hit is a dead giveaway. I'm nic-free now, and I don't miss the nic very much, but I do notice the lack of throat hit.

Possibly, but not necessarily -- if you give it to them in a dripper or kayfun, you could easily fool them into thinking they're getting "nicotine throat hit" when it's just the device that's responsible. Conversely, if you give the ones getting nicotine their vape in a T3S or Protank, the TH would be so light that they'd assume it was nic-free.

The Virginia that I vape from MyFreedomSmokes has excellent TH in *any* nic level of their 85% PG blend -- I've used their 6mg and 12mg, and routinely mix those for my daytime 9mg, and I notice no diff in TH in any of those strengths -- another good way to fool test subjects into thinking they're getting a nicotine throat hit, use lots of PG. The only difference I noticed between the PG and the VG Virginia from MFS was the throat hit.

For what it's worth, if I go into a vape shop and try their sample flavors, which tend to have either 12 or 18 nic, I get a head rush from it.

Me too! But then, when I vape 6mg from a dripper I get the same effect, as well as a TH that sends me to my inhaler!

Andria

 

[DC2]

People who are using 6mg or less? I could see that. People who are used to vaping heavily at 18 or more? That seems very unlikely.

I'm on 0 nic, but I didn't jump there right away. When I first tried to get off the cigs, I started at 24, and I had to get some 30mg juice to quit. The day I got the 30, I stopped smoking.

Along the way, I've tried "just stopping" a couple of times. Now that I'm at 0 nic, I can do it - but I don't like it. When I was on a significant amount of nic, it would have been a lot like trying to quit cigarettes by just putting them aside.

To me, claims that nic doesn't matter fail just on the face of it. I've been addicted to nic. Telling me there is no addiction isn't going to convince me.

I have no doubt that nicotine is far more addictive to some people than it is to others.

 

[AndriaD]

I've been wrestling with this for a few weeks now. I have weened down to 3mg nic I tried zero and felt something was amiss (mental ?) my last batch I made I ran out of nic so now its 2.5mg But I made 400 ml of juice and seeing how small 10 ml of nic is I really think it must be mental because I just don't see how that little bit of nic will make a difference no matter how much you shake and mix it . Then there is the notion how much can I really feel 2.5 mg of nic ? At some point doesn't low nic probably react the same as no nic since the level is so small ?

I think there must be a physical difference; I vape 9mg all day, but at night, if I don't drop down to 6mg several hours before I try to go to bed, my heart just races and pounds so badly I can't fall asleep. Only 3mg difference -- but it makes a huge difference in my body.

When I first wake up, I vape something around 10.5mg, to get the nic level boosted a little more quickly, but if I stay at that level more than 1 hr, I start having those sharp pains in my abdomen, and I know that nausea is not far behind, so I try to get on to my 9mg within 45 mins of waking.

Not large differences at all in mg, but worlds of difference in the body.

Andria

 

[NC_Fog]

I think there must be a physical difference; I vape 9mg all day, but at night, if I don't drop down to 6mg several hours before I try to go to bed, my heart just races and pounds so badly I can't fall asleep. Only 3mg difference -- but it makes a huge difference in my body.

When I first wake up, I vape something around 10.5mg, to get the nic level boosted a little more quickly, but if I stay at that level more than 1 hr, I start having those sharp pains in my abdomen, and I know that nausea is not far behind, so I try to get on to my 9mg within 45 mins of waking.

Not large differences at all in mg, but worlds of difference in the body.

Andria

This is just another example of how nicotine or any stimulant for that matter affects us so differently both mentally and physically. I myself vape around 7ml to 8ml daily. I can vape right up until bedtime and have no problem what so ever in going to sleep. Coffee, the same way. I usually drink a cup of bold before hitting the sack.

 

[Anjaffm]

People who are using 6mg or less? I could see that. People who are used to vaping heavily at 18 or more? That seems very unlikely.

I'm on 0 nic, but I didn't jump there right away. When I first tried to get off the cigs, I started at 24, and I had to get some 30mg juice to quit. The day I got the 30, I stopped smoking.

Along the way, I've tried "just stopping" a couple of times. Now that I'm at 0 nic, I can do it - but I don't like it. When I was on a significant amount of nic, it would have been a lot like trying to quit cigarettes by just putting them aside.

To me, claims that nic doesn't matter fail just on the face of it. I've been addicted to nic. Telling me there is no addiction isn't going to convince me.

I agree.
I vape 18 mg nic. Started with 18, stayed with 18. I like the nic. It does something for me. Like the caffeine in coffee. And, after all, without the harmful substances in smoke as such, nicotine is about as "harmful" as caffeine.

In addition, I agree that a vaper used to some decent nic content will notice - 1. lack of throat hit, 2. lack of satisfaction.
It happened to me once. I had bought some 12 mg nic liquid at a good price from a buddy, and vaped it in the evenings. Where I could just vape more to make up for the lack of nic content. Well, the next day at work I took a drag off my PV. Hm.... something was missing. Hm.... It felt as if I was hungry and longing for a steak and all I got was lettuce, without dressing. No satisfaction whatsoever. Something was missing, it was just not right. Bah... Well, after a while of wondering WTH, I finally realized that this PV contained the 12 mg nic instead of my 18. AHA! Well, I grabbed a PV with 18 and took a deep hit. And there it was: the satisfaction. As if I was finally sinking my teeth into the desired steak.
Yes, there IS a difference.

I disagree with the "addiction" part, however.
With nicotine, it is not an "addiction" (which implies harm to the user). Instead, it is a "dependence" (which does not imply harm to the user and is free of negative connotations) - See here: Nicotine Propaganda

I may be dependent on my nice hot cup of coffee or tea in the morning. I want that. And I get very cranky indeed if I do not get that. (Don't you offer me no Cola in the morning. Yuck!!! ) But I most certainly am not addicted to it.

 

[AndriaD]

This is just another example of how nicotine or any stimulant for that matter affects us so differently both mentally and physically. I myself vape around 7ml to 8ml daily. I can vape right up until bedtime and have no problem what so ever in going to sleep. Coffee, the same way. I usually drink a cup of bold before hitting the sack.

It's entirely possible that after I've been smoke free for 6 months or more, I may drop down and just vape the 6mg all day, as I did at first, when I was still smoking, tapering down. What I found after I finally ditched the smokes, though, was that at 6mg, I was vaping pretty much constantly, barely putting the PV down for anything. So I started mixing to 8mg, but then I discovered the pounding-heart problem at bedtime, and I was having some issues with constipation, due to taking in such a lower level of nicotine (compared to cigarettes). so I had to customize again, going to 9mg for daytime, but dropping back to 6mg after dinner, and that seems a much better fit all round; 9mg is apparently close enough to what I got from cigarettes (the ultra-lights I smoked for 20 yrs) to keep my digestion moving well, and the 6mg at night lets me ease down enough that when I go to bed, I can fall asleep easily. I can't say I notice a lot of difference between 9mg and 6mg in how it makes me feel, and I don't chain-vape the 6mg as I was at first, maybe because by post-dinner-time, my blood nicotine level is already at peak, so I don't feel deprived or anything.

Anddria

 

[Anjaffm]

@Andria:

That sure is interesting. I used to smoke normal strength cigs (no "light" for me, thank you very much) and I vape 18 mg nic. I just use less liquid now than I did in the beginning

And yes, the positive influence of nic on the digestion is a great thing
In German, we speak of the "3 K's" in the morning: "Kaffee, Kippe, Klo" (= coffee, cigarette, bathroom) And it did take me a little while to get used to the slower nic uptake with vaping. Meaning the 3rd "K" took longer. Still takes a little longer, to this day

...

And I still very much enjoy the positive effects of nicotine consumption on .. let's say .. "cognitive and emotional disorders". ("disorders" meaning "not functioning like a machine")

Which brings us to the positive effects of nicotine that may just play a big role in

1. the persistent 20% of the population who smoke. In spite of all the ANTZ efforts to the contrary
2. the reason why some vapers have no intention whatsoever in "weaning themselves off" nicotine

I would go so far as to say: Yes, there is a dependence in my case. Most definitely. And that is nobody's business, as I am not harming myself or others.

And what are the alternatives?
Total abstinence from nicotine. Total abstinence from the habit which can be so calming, so soothing. Or which provides a quick pick-me-up when one is needed. And then what? Gorging on sweets? Drinking onself into a stupor? Popping pills? (oh yes, there are pills for everything.. everything under the sun.... ) Or - God beware - concentrating the unhappiness, the feeling of missing something into pure hatred and evil directed at others, becoming one of them? One of the hate-filled ANTZ?

No thank you. I think I'll vape.

 

[AndriaD]

@Andria:

That sure is interesting. I used to smoke normal strength cigs (no "light" for me, thank you very much) and I vape 18 mg nic. I just use less liquid now than I did in the beginning

And yes, the positive influence of nic on the digestion is a great thing
In German, we speak of the "3 K's" in the morning: "Kaffee, Kippe, Klo" (= coffee, cigarette, bathroom) And it did take me a little while to get used to the slower nic uptake with vaping. Meaning the 3rd "K" took longer. Still takes a little longer, to this day

...

And I still very much enjoy the positive effects of nicotine consumption on .. let's say .. "cognitive and emotional disorders". ("disorders" meaning "not functioning like a machine")

Which brings us to the positive effects of nicotine that may just play a big role in

1. the persistent 20% of the population who smoke. In spite of all the ANTZ efforts to the contrary
2. the reason why some vapers have no intention whatsoever in "weaning themselves off" nicotine

I would go so far as to say: Yes, there is a dependence in my case. Most definitely. And that is nobody's business, as I am not harming myself or others.

And what are the alternatives?
Total abstinence from nicotine. Total abstinence from the habit which can be so calming, so soothing. Or which provides a quick pick-me-up when one is needed. And then what? Gorging on sweets? Drinking onself into a stupor? Popping pills? (oh yes, there are pills for everything.. everything under the sun.... ) Or - God beware - concentrating the unhappiness, the feeling of missing something into pure hatred and evil directed at others, becoming one of them? One of the hate-filled ANTZ?

No thank you. I think I'll vape.

I completely agree with everything you said, and if I had normally-functioning lungs, I daresay I'd have absolutely zero plans to ever stop vaping. I feel that nicotine does a great deal for my emotional balance -- not swinging wildly one way or the other -- and certainly for my ability to focus and concentrate. However. I have asthma, damn it all, and while right now, vaping is 100% harm reduction for my poor lungs, from cigarettes, I have to acknowledge that my poor lungs would be far better off with nothing but air, polluted as that stuff may be.

I don't have any immediate plans to stop vaping; I figure 2-3 yrs at a minimum, to be sure I'm really, completely over my 39 yr cigarette addiction. Depending on what my lungs are like 2-3 yrs from now, I may need to revisit that decision. If I do decide that my lungs really need a total lack of inhaling anything other than air and my rescue inhaler, I figure quitting vaping would have to be easier than quitting smoking (quitting smoking by the heretofore usual methods), since I can gradually scale back the nic content till I have no physical dependence whatever. If I did ever decide to do this, and did manage to become "vape free", at that point I might decide to resume nicotine consumption via some other method that didn't interfere with my lungs -- the patch, most likely -- because I do see benefits from nicotine, as I said, for my ability to focus and concentrate. There's also the matter of my gene-pool; one grandmother died at 95 after 15 yrs of senile dementia; other grandmother dead at 85 *from alzheimers*. so if in fact nicotine provides some protection from these types of cognitive disorders, then nicotine could be a real godsend for the quality of my "golden years".

Andria

 

[CassiusCloud]

Cigarets held a grip on me to the point that i had given up trying to quit them.

I was at the point that i was like,ok this is me and might as well face it..
Vaping showed me i was wrong to think that way..

So when the time comes which could be today or next week,that i feel it's time.
It will be with the attitude of control this time in the choice and the mindset that i define me,the pleasures in life are just something i do in between my next move i decide to make..
so i'm thinkin i'll be able to walk away from this pretty easily when it's become boring.

 

[Anjaffm]

@AndriaD:
I am sorry to hear that about your lungs, dear.
And yes, to me also, nicotine is a godsend. And vaping is a godsend. I may just have switched to vaping shortly before developing some kind of respiratory problem. I was getting awfully short of breath there late in my smoking "career". (And no, I never had it checked. What for? I knew what it came from and I knew that the doctor would probably just tell me to stop smoking like a chimney. Which I did sometimes. 50 cigs on some days was just too much for my health. Luckily vaping came along.)

Of course, I can understand a desire to stop vaping to protect already damaged lungs.
What I generally object to is the desire to stop vaping for... whatever ideological reasons. Or, to phrase it more clearly: the desire to stop vaping for .. whatever ideological reasons.. and the attempt to push those "reasons" off unto others as well. We are all different. And what may be good and sensible for one person need not necessarily be good and sensible for another person.

 

[zmbgzus]

This is all wonderful feedback! All very valid points. I agree that the benefits that nicotine bring to the table are indeed immense. Especially the increased dopamine production to manage emotional stress. Ty all for your feedback. I look forward to reading more individual accounts!

 

[Cloud Pump]

If you want some science behind the addiction of tobacco, look up the Berlin 2001 study on nicotine addiction and the MAOI's present in tobacco additives.

I believe that MAOI's are the reason why tobacco companies can say this.....

 

[WaynesWorld]

Found an interesting article by Tony Warren about Nicotine being not addictive and it makes total sense. Plus I've read several research papers using Nicotine as a synergy drug to help in improving memory and it was administered to NEVER smokers for many months, yet when they stopped giving the drug cocktail to the patients, not one showed any "Nicotine Withdrawal" symptoms. Below is an interesting excerpt from the article:

"If you are like most people you have probably heard that nicotine is one of the most additive drugs there is. You may have even heard some misinformed person say that it's easier to give up hero#n than cigarettes. That belief will not serve you very well if you are now ready to stop smoking cigarettes.

So what is the truth about cigarettes and nicotine addiction? Why do so many people seem to have such a hard time quitting? First let's think a bit about nicotine addiction. You have probably heard that many people die of second hand cigarette smoke. They receive enough nicotine, tar and other toxic chemicals to kill them even though they never smoked themselves. Now you need to ask yourself this question, if they were getting enough nicotine to kill them, why didn't they get addicted to cigarettes and want to start smoking?

Another thing you might wonder about is the fact that if you are like most smokers, you can sleep through the night without a cigarette. That means that you can go around 8 hours without taking in any nicotine. A true addict would wake up in the night to get a fix just so he or she can go back to sleep.

People who stop smoking are sometimes irritable or uncomfortable, but they don't get the tremors, hallucinations, terrible headaches, sweats and delirium that addicts get when they quit their drug of choice.

80% of the reason people keep smoking is psychological. It is just a habit. If you smoke a pack of 20 cigarettes a day; that is 200 puffs a day. Think about that! If you do anything 200 times a day it will become a deeply ingrained habit. What else do you do 200 times a day?

This is why nicotine replacement therapies are so ineffective at helping people stop smoking. Of those who use nicotine gum to quit only 7% to 10% are successful. Those who choose the nicotine patch do only slightly better with up to a 15% success rate. And the startling truth is that in one day a nicotine patch delivers an amount of nicotine to the bloodstream equivalent to smoking six packs of cigarettes in one day. Think about that, if you are wearing a nicotine patch you are receiving more nicotine that you have ever had in your life and yet people will still want to smoke a cigarette. This shows that the desire to smoke is not really about nicotine.
Most people keep smoking because it is a habit."

Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/7030669

 

[zmbgzus]

At dome point in the near future, I'll be writing out a paper outlining my synopsis of nicotine dependency. Hopefully it fares well...time will tell.

 

[Nermal]

1. this enjoyable habit
2. the consumption of nicotine.

Well yes. The premise of the thread seems to be that nicotine is bad. An assumption without support is called "begging the question".

 

[zmbgzus]

Well yes. The premise of the thread seems to be that nicotine is bad. An assumption without support is called "begging the question".

The purpose is actually determining chemical dependency. There are a great many benefits to controlled nic use, as seen in the thread. I believe that we may be able to eliminate the "need" for using chemicals such as nic as a trigger to maintain our mindset. All of the info here is providing support for a paper I'll be writing to support that nic is not the bad guy. It's dopamine. But how much of our dependence on nic is actually psychological and not physical?

 

[AndriaD]

@AndriaD:
I am sorry to hear that about your lungs, dear.
And yes, to me also, nicotine is a godsend. And vaping is a godsend. I may just have switched to vaping shortly before developing some kind of respiratory problem. I was getting awfully short of breath there late in my smoking "career". (And no, I never had it checked. What for? I knew what it came from and I knew that the doctor would probably just tell me to stop smoking like a chimney. Which I did sometimes. 50 cigs on some days was just too much for my health. Luckily vaping came along.)

Of course, I can understand a desire to stop vaping to protect already damaged lungs.
What I generally object to is the desire to stop vaping for... whatever ideological reasons. Or, to phrase it more clearly: the desire to stop vaping for .. whatever ideological reasons.. and the attempt to push those "reasons" off unto others as well. We are all different. And what may be good and sensible for one person need not necessarily be good and sensible for another person.

I just generally object to control freaks in general. My mom is one of those people that if something is outside her experience, knowledge, or the way she would do things, then it's automatically BAAAAAAD and must be criticized, ridiculed, persecuted, and squashed like a bug -- imagine what fun my adolescence was! I had to grow up and leave home just to go out in public without a bra! People like that are the ones that need to be criticized, ridiculed, persecuted, and squashed like bugs!

I would say that trying to "regulate" harm-reduction makes as much sense as trying to legislate morality; unfortunately for all of us, humanity seems composed of a large percentage of people busily trying to mind everyone's business but their own -- they cannot be happy until they are controlling everything, and if we let them get away with it, we have only ourselves to blame -- people like that need to be jailed, IMO, and let them practice their control-freak antics on other jail inhabitants, and each other. Unfortunately, I don't think enough jails *exist* to hold all the people with this character defect. They have apparently never heard the axiom "live and let live," or even if they've heard it, they don't understand it at all, or assume it's for others to follow, not THEM with their "it's for their own good" rules!

It seems to me that many people become parents with this end in mind, that they'll then have a person "all their own" to boss around; if they don't have this idea *before* they become parents, they seem to acquire it very soon after. The "I'm the boss of you and you'll do what I say, or there'll be hell to pay!" mentality. Anyone drawn to public service seems to be already infected with this mental virus, and a little taste of power makes them crave more and more. Little fascists, one and all.

Andria

 

[Steamix]

Purge one set of chemicals, so that some other bozos can infuse you with another set

Frankly, I don't give rat's behind.

The science behind it all may be interesting and some knowledge of it is necessary ; if only to counter all that BS that is circulating the media about vaping.

But what it all boils down to is what my body tells me. And the thousands of fellow vapers. No need to rehash the thousands of posts about 'before' and 'after'. Nic, no nic, low nic - don't matter. That your hide is better off with vaping - that matters.

 

[Gato del Jugo]

If my theory is accurate, .5 mg nic still effecting the brain is not surprising.

I'm feeling it pretty hard right now.. And I don't use anything all that hard-hitting, just some $5-$10 clearos.. That's pretty messed up...

Been thinking about cutting what I have left down to 0.25mg, no joke.. But that would double the remaining amount, and honestly, I'm ready for zero-nic at this point.. I recognize that sensation that I need to drop the nic level, been there plenty of times.. Aside from quick moments when I first wake up & right after meals, I'm not even liking nicotine all that much anymore...

I'm looking forward to zero-nic.. When I hit it soon, I'm going to vape as much as I want at first, in all sorts of tasty flavors, just in case.. But I think it will be easy & even a welcome change...

I've been wrestling with this for a few weeks now. I have weened down to 3mg nic I tried zero and felt something was amiss (mental ?) my last batch I made I ran out of nic so now its 2.5mg But I made 400 ml of juice and seeing how small 10 ml of nic is I really think it must be mental because I just don't see how that little bit of nic will make a difference no matter how much you shake and mix it . Then there is the notion how much can I really feel 2.5 mg of nic ? At some point doesn't low nic probably react the same as no nic since the level is so small ?

Trust me, you can still feel it.. Or at least I can...

I'm buzzing off half a piddly mg!!

Once you hit 3mg for a while, it's pretty much a breeze.. From there I dropped down to 2, then 1.5, then 1, now at 0.5, all pretty quickly, all within a month... And only reason why I did that was because I didn't know how it was going to be, so I stretched out what I had/have left, and was too scared to drop straight to zero...

Now I know it's going to be a piece of cake.. I'd save a tiny a bit for "emergencies," but why bother?

I'm done with Nic.. I hate that guy now..

 

[freeatlast!]

For months, I have been reading references to the nicotine "buzz." I seem to be quite unfamiliar with that!! Maybe when I first started smoking.....47 years ago? Anyway, I agree with those who've said that nicotine affects people to different degrees....for myself, I'm convinced it was not the nicotine that had me hooked - and believe me, I was depressingly hooked!!! Never thought I'd be able to quit - going just a handful of hours without a cig was miserable....the nic patch didn't help much, the nic gum didn't do much for me....eating, drinking, chewing or sucking on something didn't help....24 mg. cigalikes didn't do it for me....the first puff on an eGo filled with 24 mg. liquid, however, told me a different story - I knew this would let me quit. Over the next 3 or 4 days, I finished the 1/2 pack of cigs that I still had, and that was it. Have had slight cravings 3 or 4 times in the past 8 months, but nothing very significant. That said, if there were a cigarette in the house, I'd probably smoke it.... But I can sit and visit with someone else who is smoking, and not be bothered by it at all.

As for the nic in my vapes - I didn't stay at 24 mg. very long - down to 18, then 12. then 6 in just a few weeks, and then started buying 0 and occasionally using some of the other levels because I still had/have good flavors at higher levels....but for a couple months now, I only buy 0 and use that 90% of the time because what I'm buying now are my favorite flavors.

When I was vaping the higher levels, the only time I could really "tell" was when I went to bed - I was definitely stimulated, similarly to having had coffee or even something full of sugar before bed. That is gone now that I'm on primarily 0 nic.

I enjoy vaping very much; I'm sure some of it is the hand-to-mouth thing, the oral satisfaction. But it's not a big problem NOT to vape - less so than missing my first cup of coffee in the morning. Will I stop vaping at some point? Probably, but it's not a big issue for me. I am not really concerned about health effects regarding vaping, with or without nicotine. Just doesn't seem to me that there is much reason for concern. Incidentally, I don't inhale (even though I did when I smoked); and I might be a bit more concerned if I did inhale - seems to me inhaling does irritate the throat and lungs, although it may not be actually be harmful in any way. But using a PV like a pipe or a cigar works well for me, so that's what I do.

In summary, is nicotine the culprit in cigarettes? I don't think so - at least for me it doesn't appear to be.