The Differences Between 808 Batteries

[WorksForMe]

The following is pure unadulterated speculation on my part.
* I'd guess that EVERY e-cig retailer/vendor is contracting with an OEM-type factory in China to get their products built. I doubt there would be sufficient economy of scale if a factory were only manufacturing products for a single retailer. The retailers we buy from are small companies and 'owning' a factory would be cost prohibitive. And the economic risk would be way too high.
* I'd further speculate that there's probably only a handful of factories, similar to the TV LCD/LED screen industries where there's only a few foundries that do all the screen manufacturing for a multitude of companies. So if you buy a carto from company A, it very well could be made in the same factory as a carto from company B.
* I think it would also make sense that the retailers enter into an agreement with ONE factory to get their entire product line built in order to get lower rates. Also, I'm sure it's a lot easier for a retailer to work with only one factory than many - it takes time to build that relationship. So when a retailer says "our factory", they would be referring to the factory with whom they have signed an agreement.
* I don't think there's sufficient sales volume for any retailer to develop custom components. For example, the regulator chip in gen 2 batteries is likely an off-the-shelf item, as would be the cells themselves (although there could be multiple suppliers for these components). So it's very possible a battery from company A could perform 'just like' or even 'exactly' like one from company B. As an aside, it's difficult to know whether a new feature is 'designed' by the retailer, or is part of an 'a la cart' feature set offered by the factory.
* I'd bet all the factories are located in China since, if I'm not mistaken, the original e-cig patents are held by a company in China and China is very trade-protective. Further, any factory would have to be offshore, otherwise we'd be paying at least twice the price as we pay now for products, due to both higher labor costs and stronger US regulations (e.g. EPA, FDA, Dept. of Labor, etc.).
* I'll further bet it's impossible to get an actual answer to any of the above

Anyway, I guess I'm way off the OP's intent of this thread. Sorry 'bout that Johnnie.

As I said, this is purely speculation on my part, so please correct me if I've totally missed the boat on anything or the speculation doesn't match facts. But please don't 'beat me up' for it

+1

In the real world, e-cigarettes and e-cig vendors often have the reputation of being scams and rip offs. IMHO, to fight this perception, vendors should go out their way to appear honest and above board. When they imply that they manufacture the products they sell and own “their factories”, they just look deceptive and dishonest.

I don’t really care where vendors get their products, but it does bother me when they’re not honest about it.

J.R.

 

[TTK]

Nice post. I think there are some SI fairy tales being spoken here. JMO. But, kiwivap asked johnnie where he got his information about the X2. But, no one asked kiwivap where he got his information about SI batteries being made to SI specs, or Dac311 who said SI had their own factory.
Yeah, I own an X2. It is okay, but I would rate it in quality of construction slightly below my Joyetech egos. I do like the pass through feature and I use it daily along with egos.

 

[WorksForMe]

Nice post. I think there are some SI fairy tales being spoken here. JMO. But, kiwivap asked johnnie where he got his information about the X2. But, no one asked kiwivap where he got his information about SI batteries being made to SI specs, or Dac311 who said SI had their own factory.
Yeah, I own an X2. It is okay, but I would rate it in quality of construction slightly below my Joyetech egos. I do like the pass through feature and I use it daily along with egos.

Because S.I. products were my first good e-cigs, they will always have sentimental value for me, but I definitely don’t automatically believe everything any company says about the products it sells. Right now, I seem to like their X2 batteries better than my regular egos, because they have a little higher voltage. Their X2-T3 is pretty good too.

Imagine (S.I.’s forum rep) said their Volt batteries are made to S.I.’s specs. I believe that to be true, but I’m sure that some people believed that it meant that S.I. designed the batteries from the ground up.

As for “owning” their own factory, Imagine refers to “our factory”, but IIRC, she never said S.I. owns it. I asked her about it once. She replied, but never specifically said that S.I. owns a factory.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/smokeless-image/354945-any-t3-update-2.html#post7918207 post #14

If I’m wrong, please correct me. In this case, I’d like to be wrong.

J.R.

 

[TTK]

Because S.I. products were my first good e-cigs, they will always have sentimental value for me, but I definitely don’t automatically believe everything any company says about the products it sells. Right now, I seem to like their X2 batteries better than my regular egos, because they have a little higher voltage. Their X2-T3 is pretty good too.

Imagine (S.I.’s forum rep) said their Volt batteries are made to S.I.’s specs. I believe that to be true, but I’m sure that some people believed that it meant that S.I. designed the batteries from the ground up.

As for “owning” their own factory, Imagine refers to “our factory”, but IIRC, she never said S.I. owns it. I asked her about it once. She replied, but never specifically said that S.I. owns a factory.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/smokeless-image/354945-any-t3-update-2.html#post7918207 post #14

If I’m wrong, please correct me. In this case, I’d like to be wrong.

J.R.

I believe they, along with others, pick from an assortment of available specs, not unique specs for SI or most other brands. I may try the X2-T3 to see how I like it. Am using the SI nanos right now and have about 3 unused ones left.

Edit to add: What I like about SI is their dedication to 808 merchandise. If you want 808 stuff, you can find it there usually.

 

[WorksForMe]

I believe they, along with others, pick from an assortment of available specs, not unique specs for SI or most other brands.

I think I know what you mean. The manufacturer knew how to make the battery itself. S.I. specified the threading and features they wanted, like USB passthrough, button color, tube color, and the word Volt printed on the side. I just wish that the button changed color depending on battery charge level like my eGo. I hate getting caught off guard when the battery dies.

J.R.

 

[TTK]

I think I know what you mean. The manufacturer knew how to make the battery itself. S.I. specified the threading and features they wanted, like USB passthrough, button color, tube color, and the word Volt printed on the side. I just wish that the button changed color depending on battery charge level like my eGo. I hate getting caught off guard when the battery dies.

J.R.

Yeah. I can see the factory sending spec/features sheets out to many brands. If you want 808 threading, check here;want regulated battery check here; USP pass through...here; etc. Then when all of the choices are sent to factory, the unit price is determined.

 

[kiwivap]

Nice post. I think there are some SI fairy tales being spoken here. JMO. But, kiwivap asked johnnie where he got his information about the X2. But, no one asked kiwivap where he got his information about SI batteries being made to SI specs, or Dac311 who said SI had their own factory.
Yeah, I own an X2. It is okay, but I would rate it in quality of construction slightly below my Joyetech egos. I do like the pass through feature and I use it daily along with egos.

If you want to ask me then ask. I got it from the SI rep on the SI sub-forum. She has often mentioned about them getting their stuff made and where processes are up to manufacturing new stuff to spec.
So, just ask - also I'm a she not a he.

 

[kiwivap]

I think I know what you mean. The manufacturer knew how to make the battery itself. S.I. specified the threading and features they wanted, like USB passthrough, button color, tube color, and the word Volt printed on the side. I just wish that the button changed color depending on battery charge level like my eGo. I hate getting caught off guard when the battery dies.

J.R.

That's what I was saying too. The threads are standard in the industry, but the vendor can specify the mix they want and have them made.

 

[TTK]

If you want to ask me then ask. I got it from the SI rep on the SI sub-forum. She has often mentioned about them getting their stuff made and where processes are up to manufacturing new stuff to spec.
So, just ask - also I'm a she not a he.

Well, I guess I did ask. Just not a direct question.
Glad to know you are a she. I won't forget.

 

[zapped]

As an ex-vendor I might be able to shed a little light on the subject here.

Its not uncommon for a factory to service several vendors at once. I was using the same factory and buying the same products and juices that Totally Wicked was. In speaking to a sales rep for the company if you can guarantee a minimum order of say 1000 units they will put whatever name you want on the packaging and batteries for you and will also accommodate special requests like a specific threading, led color (when they were common) and other features. Obviously the more money you spend the more you can ask for.

In recent memory I can only recall one vendor making a trip to China to tour "their" factory and make suggestions on improvements to products and thats Vapor4Life. Even then the word "their" wasnt meant to imply ownership.It just meant the factory that they deal with.

Hope that helps.

 

[kiwivap]

Well, I guess I did ask. Just not a direct question.
Glad to know you are a she. I won't forget.

You didn't ask. Its ok now though.

 

[WorksForMe]

If you want to ask me then ask. I got it from the SI rep on the SI sub-forum. She has often mentioned about them getting their stuff made and where processes are up to manufacturing new stuff to spec.
So, just ask - also I'm a she not a he.

Hi Kiwi - Sorry if I stepped on your toes when I answered for you. I guess I wanted everyone to know that you and Dac weren't just making things up. It is nice to know you're a she and not a he. It might sound a little old school and chauvinistic, but I'm sometimes more careful what I say to a woman.

As an ex-vendor I might be able to shed a little light on the subject here.

Its not uncommon for a factory to service several vendors at once. I was using the same factory and buying the same products and juices that Totally Wicked was. In speaking to a sales rep for the company if you can guarantee a minimum order of say 1000 units they will put whatever name you want on the packaging and batteries for you and will also accommodate special requests like a specific threading, led color (when they were common) and other features. Obviously the more money you spend the more you can ask for.

In recent memory I can only recall one vendor making a trip to China to tour "their" factory and make suggestions on improvements to products and thats Vapor4Life. Even then the word "their" wasnt meant to imply ownership.It just meant the factory that they deal with.

Hope that helps.

Thanks zapped. That's just what I suspected.

J.R.

 

[kiwivap]

Smokeless Image don't say who makes their stuff, but it's not rebranded.
Example - they are carrying T3s now. But Imagine (the SI rep on ECF) has stated they are not made by Kanger. SI had them made especially. A knock off? Perhaps, but a T3 with 808 threading is a bonus for 808 users. SI have more than once been accused of rebranding Kanger products, but they don't.
SI were the first to carry "sealed" automatic batteries - which they had made especially. I know they aren't sealed, but they had them designed differently so they would be liquid resistant. Since then other 808s have copied the design and come out with them too.
The X2s were made for SI.

One vendor is not the same as all others. Some just carry a bunch of stuff from different places by different manufacturers, and are wanting to be like a vaping Walmart - carrying a range of different things. Some are happy to have their logo stuck on something so they can mark it up or make it seem different.
Smokeless Image base their products for new and intermediate level vapers, and have stuff made that will be part of their range, and compatible with what they carry. The T3 is an 808 version of something Kanger originally put out. But the SI T3s aren't Kanger. And they were actually having them designed to release before Kanger put theirs out. Just needed to mention that.

 

[kiwivap]

Hi Kiwi - Sorry if I stepped on your toes when I answered for you. I guess I wanted everyone to know that you and Dac weren't just making things up. It is nice to know you're a she and not a he. It might sound a little old school and chauvinistic, but I'm sometimes more careful what I say to a woman.




Thanks zapped. That's just what I suspected.

J.R.

That's ok. I don't mind some robust discussion. I don't completely buy the ex-vendors explanation as a picture of what SI do. Just because some-one was a vendor back when doesn't mean they know how a particular company is working. SI aren't selling the minis from 2 years ago that vendors carried. Anyway, I've just posted some examples previously of how they have things made to spec for them. And I know they don't just buy clones and rebrand them - they go back and forth on QC - sometimes for months. That's why the T3s took so long.

 

[Johnnie Price]

As an ex-vendor I might be able to shed a little light on the subject here.

Its not uncommon for a factory to service several vendors at once. I was using the same factory and buying the same products and juices that Totally Wicked was. In speaking to a sales rep for the company if you can guarantee a minimum order of say 1000 units they will put whatever name you want on the packaging and batteries for you and will also accommodate special requests like a specific threading, led color (when they were common) and other features. Obviously the more money you spend the more you can ask for.

In recent memory I can only recall one vendor making a trip to China to tour "their" factory and make suggestions on improvements to products and thats Vapor4Life. Even then the word "their" wasnt meant to imply ownership.It just meant the factory that they deal with.

Hope that helps.

I know Drew from NHaler has made references to visiting factories in China. I don't know the man from Adam, but he does have a decent reputation.

And he is one of a handful of people who sell Echo equipment, so I hope he's solid.

 

[kiwivap]

I believe they, along with others, pick from an assortment of available specs, not unique specs for SI or most other brands.

No, they don't - at least not always. The liquid resistant automatic batteries they had made, and were a first. Initially they said they were going to be the first company carrying their T3s too. But they weren't happy with the QC and spent months on it before they ok'd them. In the meantime Kanger brought out theirs - I guess the design was no secret in China - and now they look like copies when in fact they have sent months on getting them right.
No fairy stories here.

 

[kiwivap]

I know Drew from NHaler has made references to visiting factories in China. I don't know the man from Adam, but he does have a decent reputation.

And he is one of a handful of people who sell Echo equipment, so I hope he's solid.

Yes. The guy from V4L went there too, and made a video showing the e-liquid factory. As another example. He spent 4 months there working on product development and quality control for V4L, and later went back to work with a factory there on product development and quality control for Bloog.
Chinese E-liquid Manufacturing Facilities - YouTube

These companies are not all armchair buyers that just want to order a rebrand on the latest cheap stuff. They know if they put the time into their own products and QC they will get and keep their customers. Which is why they are successful.

ETA: Joe Battista checked out the L-Rider factory as well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8KeCJ31Z-B4
Go to the 1:10:00 mark.
A sightly different example, but interesting.

 

[kiwivap]

Hi Kiwi - Sorry if I stepped on your toes when I answered for you. I guess I wanted everyone to know that you and Dac weren't just making things up.

J.R.

Sorry - I meant to say thanks for this too.

 

[WorksForMe]

Sorry - I meant to say thanks for this too.

The SI gang has to look out for each other. A lot of us use some products from other vendors, but we'll aways be Volties at heart.

I'm using an X2 and X2-t3 right now. I only have one manual X2, but I think I just decided to get another one before the holiday sale runs out.

I learned a lot today. Thanks.
J.R.

 

[TTK]

Smokeless Image don't say who makes their stuff, but it's not rebranded.
Example - they are carrying T3s now. But Imagine (the SI rep on ECF) has stated they are not made by Kanger. SI had them made especially. A knock off? Perhaps, but a T3 with 808 threading is a bonus for 808 users. SI have more than once been accused of rebranding Kanger products, but they don't.
SI were the first to carry "sealed" automatic batteries - which they had made especially. I know they aren't sealed, but they had them designed differently so they would be liquid resistant. Since then other 808s have copied the design and come out with them too.
The X2s were made for SI.

One vendor is not the same as all others. Some just carry a bunch of stuff from different places by different manufacturers, and are wanting to be like a vaping Walmart - carrying a range of different things. Some are happy to have their logo stuck on something so they can mark it up or make it seem different.
Smokeless Image base their products for new and intermediate level vapers, and have stuff made that will be part of their range, and compatible with what they carry. Sure they copy some things - the T3 is an 808 version of something Kanger originally put out. But the SI T3s aren't Kanger.

SI were the first to sell the so called "sealed" 808 batteries. But, they were not the only ones to have access to them. Leaford from Bloog refused to adopt the sealed batteries when they first became available because, in his opinion, the quality was not up to their standards at the time. Now, they have improved and they carry them.