The Elephant in the Room

[samturdo]

Labels.

i was under the impression that the labels that say "usp propelene glycol, usp glycerol, natural flavors, and nicotine" are telling all there is in there, so im assuming you want the ingredients of the flavoring labeled too? that would be easy i think, just make a law to require it, i think it would pass quite easily. i think thats all the regulation we need

 

[beckdg]

But yet your happy to guess what's in a liquid, lmao, makes no sense for someone so concerned with allergies.

Again... Please take the time to comprehend first.

Sent from my device.

 

[samturdo]

I would like to think so. But obviously I'm skeptical.

Sent from my device.

so am i. but it would be nice for that to happen.

 

[Bored2Tears]

Labels.

In this example you said



When in fact there are very few food allergies where learning isn't guessing.

Sent from my device.

So your job avoiding the ingredients that he's allergic to is no easier now that labeling exists? I don't follow this...and I am not arguing just for the sake of arguing. My daughters both had milk and soy protein intolerance....as well as problems with some corn starch based infant formulas. I can't imagine what our journey to find something they could eat would have been like without any labeling.

Maybe I am dense....but help me understand the benefit of no labeling.

 

[Lessifer]

Sure but those flavored products aren't around now, so no use discussing that and no you wouldn't have to back to smoking that would be your choice.

I didn't say I would HAVE to go back to smoking, I said I WOULD have gone back to smoking. The point being, one of the draws of vaping is that it tastes better than smoking. Last I checked, menthol cigarettes are still around. There are even nifty cigs where you can crush a tiny bead in the filter and it goes from non-menthol to menthol, neat!

 

[samturdo]

So your job avoiding the ingredients that he's allergic to is no easier now that labeling exists? I don't follow this...and I am not arguing just for the sake of arguing. My daughters both had milk and soy protein intolerance....as well as problems with some corn starch based infant formulas. I can't imagine what our journey to find something they could eat would have been like without any labeling.

Maybe I am dense....but help me understand the benefit of no labeling.

i think we can all agree that labeling is beneficial and should be standard in anything put into the body. but we dont need the government to be in charge of it. look at everything the government does, problems everywhere. we need uniformity, not regulation in the form of monopolies and taxation.

 

[samturdo]

I didn't say I would HAVE to go back to smoking, I said I WOULD have gone back to smoking. The point being, one of the draws of vaping is that it tastes better than smoking. Last I checked, menthol cigarettes are still around. There are even nifty cigs where you can crush a tiny bead in the filter and it goes from non-menthol to menthol, neat!

you would have gone back to smoking just because of flavor issues?

remember your first cigarette? it probably tasted horrible, but you got used to it and most likely started enjoying it. its not worth it to go back, man. vaping has too many benefits

 

[sub4me]

Again... Please take the time to comprehend first.

Sent from my device.

Please direct your misguided thinking elsewhere your passive insults do nothing for your argument except show your lack of understanding of the real topic.

 

[Bored2Tears]

i think we can all agree that labeling is beneficial and should be standard in anything put into the body. but we dont need the government to be in charge of it. look at everything the government does, problems everywhere. we need uniformity, not regulation in the form of monopolies and taxation.

Not everyone is in favor of labeling what's in the e liquid. That's what some of the debate is over. And who is voluntarily disclosing what's in the flavorings and e liquids? How many vendors are self-regulating and disclosing the ppm of these?

All I've stated is that not all regulation is bad.

 

[Lessifer]

So your job avoiding the ingredients that he's allergic to is no easier now that labeling exists? I don't follow this...and I am not arguing just for the sake of arguing. My daughters both had milk and soy protein intolerance....as well as problems with some corn starch based infant formulas. I can't imagine what our journey to find something they could eat would have been like without any labeling.

Maybe I am dense....but help me understand the benefit of no labeling.

I'm going to step on beckdg's toes here and suggest that he is saying that even with the current labeling requirements, you still don't know all that is in your food. I'm looking at a can of vanilla coke right now and I know that I don't know what is in "caramel color" and "natural flavors."

Since the majority of e-liquid flavoring is food grade flavoring, I'm guessing that if current food labeling guidelines were applied the ingredient list would read:
Vegetable Glycerin, Propylene Glycol, nicotine, natural and artificial flavors.

 

[Slots]

Hasn't the FDA already approved e-cigs without even knowing it ???

Take a look at the ingredients in "Nicorette Quickmist"
It contains the 4 ingredients we use to vape, plus a bunch of others we don't need
According to this they have already approved our 4 ingredients

List of excipients
Propylene glycol
Anhydrous ethanol
Trometamol
Poloxamer 407
Glycerol
Sodium hydrogen carbonate
Levomenthol
Mint flavour
Cooling flavour
Sucralose
Acesulfame potassium
Hydrochloric acid
Purified water

For more info: Nicorette QuickMist 1mg/spray mouthspray - Summary of Product Characteristics (SPC) - (eMC)
Who's kidding who here ??

 

[beckdg]

Never said there was a benefit to no labeling.

I just don't see much but detriment and confusion from fda food style labeling.

I'd like a new governing body. Would love one consisting of viscount ridley, konstantino Farsalinos and our very own moderator... His name is escaping me currently.

EDIT: BINGO! Rolygate... that's the moderator in question.

People looking out for our interests and searching for answers. Not people figuring out how to control us and compound the issue with taxes and ridiculous fees.

I wouldn't mind banning specific flavors altogether. But they'd have to prove detrimental first to get my vote. Unfortunately that's not how it works with the current powers that be.

But... If we'd pull together and form an official council, there's a chance it might be recognized as a governing body.

The problem is vaping is too wide spread with too many opposing (and some completely ignorant yet highly voiced) opinions.

Sent from my device.

Oh... and he's 10. He gets hives from head to toe as well as several internal and very scary reactions. It's alarming how many foods contain milk, dairy, egg or wheat. Every meal has to be special just about.

 

[samturdo]

Not everyone is in favor of labeling what's in the e liquid. That's what some of the debate is over. And who is voluntarily disclosing what's in the flavorings and e liquids? How many vendors are self-regulating and disclosing the ppm of these?

All I've stated is that not all regulation is bad.

i understand that some of us arent in favor, but im giving my opinion and i think those not in favor can agree that it would be good if all ingredients are honestly disclosed. whether or not this would actually happen is what is causing doubt

 

[Lessifer]

you would have gone back to smoking just because of flavor issues?

remember your first cigarette? it probably tasted horrible, but you got used to it and most likely started enjoying it. its not worth it to go back, man. vaping has too many benefits

I wouldn't go back now, I continue to vape because I enjoy it. I honestly think though that if all that was available when I started was Vuse "tobacco" I would not have stuck with it.

 

[Bored2Tears]

I'm going to step on beckdg's toes here and suggest that he is saying that even with the current labeling requirements, you still don't know all that is in your food. I'm looking at a can of vanilla coke right now and I know that I don't know what is in "caramel color" and "natural flavors."

Since the majority of e-liquid flavoring is food grade flavoring, I'm guessing that if current food labeling guidelines were applied the ingredient list would read:
Vegetable Glycerin, Propylene Glycol, nicotine, natural and artificial flavors.

And I'm going out on a limb to say that since those items are listed, I can look into them. I have a better idea than if there is nothing listed at all. For that reason, I'm considered an idealist by beckdg.

 

[WillyZee]

Except e cigs aren't a smoking cessation device and the flavor argument is just an excuse. Did you smoke flavored cigarettes?? No, you smoked regular or menthol cigarettes so if your using vaping to quit smoking you'll be fine with tobacco or menthol, tutti frutti is not needed.

you should not listen to the ANTZ lies ... I am proof that ecigs work as a successful smoking cessation ... I quit a 30+ year smoking habit with ecigs.

And it wasn't tobacco or menthol that worked ... it was watermelon

I can't be the only one

 

[samturdo]

Hasn't the FDA already approved e-cigs without even knowing it ???

Take a look at the ingredients in "Nicorette Quickmist"
It contains the 4 ingredients we use to vape, plus a bunch of others we don't need
According to this they have already approved our 4 ingredients

List of excipients
Propylene glycol
Anhydrous ethanol
Trometamol
Poloxamer 407
Glycerol
Sodium hydrogen carbonate
Levomenthol
Mint flavour
Cooling flavour
Sucralose
Acesulfame potassium
Hydrochloric acid
Purified water

For more info: Nicorette QuickMist 1mg/spray mouthspray - Summary of Product Characteristics (SPC) - (eMC)
Who's kidding who here ??

yep.

 

[samturdo]

I wouldn't go back now, I continue to vape because I enjoy it. I honestly think though that if all that was available when I started was Vuse "tobacco" I would not have stuck with it.

i would have gone back if there were only cigalikes too. in fact, i did. tried a blu, hated it, and kept buying packs. i literally didnt know there was anything better.
but to me, using cigalikes isnt true vaping, its more like pretending to smoke

 

[Lessifer]

Hasn't the FDA already approved e-cigs without even knowing it ???

Take a look at the ingredients in "Nicorette Quickmist"
It contains the 4 ingredients we use to vape, plus a bunch of others we don't need
According to this they have already approved our 4 ingredients

List of excipients
Propylene glycol
Anhydrous ethanol
Trometamol
Poloxamer 407
Glycerol
Sodium hydrogen carbonate
Levomenthol
Mint flavour
Cooling flavour
Sucralose
Acesulfame potassium
Hydrochloric acid
Purified water

For more info: Nicorette QuickMist 1mg/spray mouthspray - Summary of Product Characteristics (SPC) - (eMC)
Who's kidding who here ??

It's a great point, but I think that's not available here in the US, so not FDA approved.

 

[optsmk]

OMG, there's an elephant in the room. Someone help me get him out. These beasts can cause mass devastation to a home

On a serious note. Do I care if minors are vaping? No, not really. The fact of the matter is that kids will smoke or vape if they want to and there is nothing anyone can do about it. I remember when I was young, I had a list of places I could go that would sell alcohol and cigarettes to minors. And that was wayyyyyyyyyy back in the late seventies. If they were doing it then, they are doing it now. But at least all of the vape shops around here don't sell to anyone under 18. Although I'm sure there are some employees that will.