The Elephant in the Room

[Plastic Shaman]

ZOMG how many children used computers in 1982 compared to now? Its an epidemic and must be regulated for the children, according to the interstate commerce playbook: the internet can be very addictive, bam! its a drug and under fda jurisdiction!

What was the last innovation to smoking, was it the filter?

Good news though ppl: Progressives won in 1933 when the bank charter was up and it didn't close, despite everyone trying to withdraw all deposits. So you guys in the room, the Progressives; congrats. As a result net tax consumers vs net tax contributors is about 49/51 and contributors will very soon be the minority.

So as you ponder yet another moral regulation also ponder abusing the minority.

This is totally off topic, but I'll address it. I have no idea if you're number is right, nor should we fight about this here. However, your number is deceiving. It doesn't matter if only 10 % of people contribute, as long as they contribute more money than the rest consume.

 

[towelie]

Should I explain why washing your hands before performing surgery is a good idea, too? Or because I have a minority opinion are all of you going to rake me over the coals for every possible assertion I make? Cause honestly, I think this is a bit silly.

Sure, that is a good idea and I agree with you. I agree ingredients on ejuice labels and not selling to minors is also a good idea. However giving any federal governmental regulatory agency any say in either of these issues is not.

 

[Plastic Shaman]

Sure, that is a good idea and I agree with you. I agree ingredients on ejuice labels and not selling to minors is also a good idea. However giving any federal governmental regulatory agency any say in either of these issues is not.

How else will it be determined what is on the label? How will it be enforced?

 

[towelie]

This is totally off topic, but I'll address it. I have no idea if you're number is right, nor should we fight about this here. However, your number is deceiving. It doesn't matter if only 10 % of people contribute, as long as they contribute more money than the rest consume.

When do you contend the last time any percentage of contribution netted more than consumption? Old Hickory is a hint.

 

[Plastic Shaman]

When do you contend the last time any percentage of contribution netted more than consumption? Old Hickory is a hint.

There are a lot of factors to this. When was the last time that net exports exceeded net imports? I don't think its fair to blame one group of people, but we should stop with this before we get more warnings.

 

[skoony]

How else will it be determined what is on the label? How will it be enforced?

all the FDA would have to say is list the ingredients.

mike

 

[Tranquility Base]

Saw a bottle of hot sauce once. FDA makes them list the Nutritional Information. So the maker lists it, it is like zero in nearly all categories, then the guy puts this: "Really? You are looking at the nutritional information on a bottle of hot sauce? It's HOT SAUCE, man! Just pour some on and enjoy it!" Thought that was funny.

 

[Plastic Shaman]

all the FDA would have to say is list the ingredients.

mike

Well, I'll ignore the requirements of the existing laws.

So, you think the FDA should just issue a blanket statement that says to list all ingredients? Are there anymore concerns, or just ingredients? Who would enforce this?

 

[towelie]

plastic i have received no warnings nor am i warring or blaming progressives. if i accept and endorse something i blame myself, regardless of what group concoted the notion.

sources are factually interesting still though.

 

[towelie]

There are a lot of factors to this. When was the last time that net exports exceeded net imports? I don't think its fair to blame one group of people, but we should stop with this before we get more warnings.

no bro there arent any other factors other than morality.

 

[skoony]

Well, I'll ignore the requirements of the existing laws.

So, you think the FDA should just issue a blanket statement that says to list all ingredients? Are there anymore concerns, or just ingredients? Who would enforce this?

wait one. i thought that was one of the reasons for the FDA involvement
was the lack of labeling. if its required now by whom?
enforcement would be easy if one has the full power and force of the
government behind them.they banned it at the borders until a judge
got involved.
mike

 

[Plastic Shaman]

wait one. i thought that was one of the reasons for the FDA involvement
was the lack of labeling. if its required now by whom?
enforcement would be easy if one has the full power and force of the
government behind them.they banned it at the borders until a judge
got involved.
mike

Yeah, the FDA will make manufacturers put labels on with certain requirements. It isn't required now. Sorry for the confusion.

You still need someone overlooking it. Judges do not just look out for these things. You need some sort of authority to which violations can be reported.

 

[sub4me]

No wonder the FDA and others are so hot on vaping some the opinions here are outrageous, letting minors vape (insanity), assuming the industry will self regulate (what a joke), some of the things people are saying their fine with is just embarrassing (to them). I'm not even gonna go back a quote all the posted nonsense, its all meaningless at this point.

The regulations are coming so deal with it, and after reading some of the outrageous beliefs some have I'm glad the regulations are coming. Its obviously badly needed.

 

[TomGeorge]

Yeah, the FDA will make manufacturers put labels on with certain requirements. It isn't required now. Sorry for the confusion.

You still need someone overlooking it. Judges do not just look out for these things. You need some sort of authority to which violations can be reported.

And tax revenue to pay for these new services. would it be ATF agents or department of health officials or a whole new branch do you think? I hope not the latter, it sounds expensive...

 

[Plastic Shaman]

And tax revenue to pay for these new services. would it be ATF agents or department of health officials or a whole new branch do you think? I hope not the latter, it sounds expensive...

Well, most of the system exists to enforce this against the other tobacco products already regulated. Granted, they will have to hire some more staff. Maybe some inspections would be needed. I'd have to do a lot of research for that and I have not had time to read all the regs related to tobacco. If someone was out of compliance, the FDA probably has the authority to issue fines and injunctions.

 

[Bored2Tears]

Careful.... Suggesting that any governmental actions have ever produced benefits to society just angers the mob. People self-regulate, and they don't need authorities to tell them how to behave. If it weren't for governments, there would be world peace I am pretty sure.

 

[WattWick]

Careful.... Suggesting that any governmental actions have ever produced benefits to society just angers the mob. People self-regulate, and they don't need authorities to tell them how to behave. If it weren't for governments, there would be world peace I am pretty sure.

Isn't that a bit extremist. There can't possibly be anything in between DPRK and total anarchy?

 

[Bored2Tears]

Isn't that a bit extremist. There can't possibly be anything in between DPRK and total anarchy?

That's what I was thinking...but read a few pages back on the thread. Suggesting that some moderate regulations are needed is is big NO NO. Not for the faint of heart. Go ahead with that line of thinking if you like, but I'm just giving a bit of caution that it's not a popular notion.

 

[Lessifer]

The issue with warning labels, as I see it, is this, what are you warning the consumer about? Putting "Warning, contains chemicals that may be harmful to your health" is not really productive, since you're not specifying what is harmful, and it could be a death sentence for that product. The general public cannot distinguish between "of concern" and "harmful." At this point, I personally feel that all flavorings are "of concern." That doesn't mean I want flavors pulled from the market.

Diacetyl is currently "of concern" because we know that at much higher levels than we are exposed to while vaping, it can lead to health problems. It is being studied, but it will be a long time before we know. If you have it pulled from vaping completely, guess what, we'll never know because it won't be studied. Why bother when no one is using it? Don't want diacetyl but want that same flavor, well, here, my chemical company just derived this similar compound. Is it safe? Who knows, but you can now call your liquid diacetyl free! See how that works?

ETA: listing ingredients, down to the compound level sounds simpler than it is. Since the person I buy juice from gets their flavorings from another seller, who may have in turn compounded those flavors from other base flavors, all of which only need adhere to the food guidelines of listing "natural and artificial" flavors.

 

[Bored2Tears]

The issue with warning labels, as I see it, is this, what are you warning the consumer about? Putting "Warning, contains chemicals that may be harmful to your health" is not really productive, since you're not specifying what is harmful, and it could be a death sentence for that product. The general public cannot distinguish between "of concern" and "harmful." At this point, I personally feel that all flavorings are "of concern." That doesn't mean I want flavors pulled from the market.

Diacetyl is currently "of concern" because we know that at much higher levels than we are exposed to while vaping, it can lead to health problems. It is being studied, but it will be a long time before we know. If you have it pulled from vaping completely, guess what, we'll never know because it won't be studied. Why bother when no one is using it? Don't want diacetyl but want that same flavor, well, here, my chemical company just derived this similar compound. Is it safe? Who knows, but you can now call your liquid diacetyl free! See how that works?

ETA: listing ingredients, down to the compound level sounds simpler than it is. Since the person I buy juice from gets their flavorings from another seller, who may have in turn compounded those flavors from other base flavors, all of which only need adhere to the food guidelines of listing "natural and artificial" flavors.

I understand now. No one is using flavorings which contain diacetyl, therefore no need to worry. And, even if regulations were in place, people could circumvent them. Got it.