No need to get snarky. Honestly, what do you want on the warning label? A list of ingredients, even down to the compound level, I would like that too. I'm just saying it's not as easy as it sounds.
The Elephant in the Room
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No need to get snarky. Honestly, what do you want on the warning label? A list of ingredients, even down to the compound level, I would like that too. I'm just saying it's not as easy as it sounds.
The attitude and nonsense beliefs that some here have posted makes me recall a lot of the same arguments some of the proponents of a certain leafy substance use to argue for their rights to smoke that leafy substance and legalize it. Imagined medical benefits and medical cures (lmao), causes no harm (lmao), minors should have access (complete ignorance). I'm not saying that substance and vaping have no benefits whatsoever but lets get a grip on reality here. Neither are a cure for anything.
I can't recall, because you kept bringing up other stuff. Is there a reason, other than the social/moral one, that kids should not be allowed to vape? Please don't bring up the other stuff whose only relation to this conversation is that someone decided to call it e-liquid.
Children do not have fully developed brains. We should not let them just do whatever they want because they can't make all of their own decisions, especially for decisions that have health impacts.
It's a matter of risk and pragmatism. There's a good argument that they shouldn't be allowed to, but if we go the other way, why don't we allow them to drink, join the military, vote, ect. Can you give me one non social or moral reason that a five year old should not be able to drink and vote?
Voting, no. Alcohol kills brain cells, stagnates development, damages the liver, alters judgement, etc. Where is the proof of harm from vaping?
Sorry for being snarky. Guess my feathers got ruffled a few pages back by the angry mob, and it's carrying over. But, to me this is the essence of the discussion. Can "we" or the vape community if you prefer, self regulate ? Everyone keeps making the point similar to yours... that a huge list of chemicals means nothing to anyone at all. I agree.
But we know some flavorings that are a problem. Our own Dr F has made suggestions about those. Yet they are sold, and I think the majority of e liquid vendors don't go out of there way to warn about them. That I will admit is a bit of generalization but I think essentially true. Self regulation means doing what's right even when you aren't forced to by a law or regulation. Maybe some vendors are doing it....but it doesn't seem to be widespread.
No I don't want a list down to compound level. I'd prefer something that just gives an alert that this flavoring is riskier than the rest. And all I have been trying to promote is some discussion. But suggesting some of these things has been portrayed as giving secrets to the enemy. That's the part I don't understand.
As for minors vaping, I can't even wrap my head around why that's worthy of discussion. To me, it's a well established principle that some lifestyle choices aren't given to minors that are given to adults.
Nicotine is an addictive substance. Where is the proof that vaping is not harmful?
So, you're ok with a five year old voting and driving? What about getting a credit card?
So, you're ok with a five year old voting and driving? What about getting a credit card?
Judging by the way society is going lately, ALL we have are five year olds voting and driving and using credit cards.
If a five year old can pay the bill on that credit card, why not? Though we're getting a little silly now.
When did it become ok to to say something is harmful before you actually know that it is? Caffeine is an addictive substance, gambling and shopping are addictive behaviors. Nicotine's addictiveness on it's own, without the presence of tobacco(and everything in it) is currently being researched as it appears it is far less addictive than previously believed.
No, there are some flavors that we think MAY pose a health risk, and require further study. There is a huge difference there.
If you feel it's harmful, then don't vape.
Arguing "It might be harmful, so I'm going to stop other people from vaping" doesn't make much sense. Especially when you can't prove it is harmful.
I don't know. It's the same line of logic applies to both and a lot of people would be believe the idea of letting teens vape is absurd.
Like I said, it's a matter of risk. Your argument works both ways. When did it become OK to say something is safe before you have proof that it is harmful? Why do you think we do drug trials, even if they are lacking in their scrutiny. We never know the risks of these drugs, well not fully. Do you think it's a good idea to just put them on the market and see what happens?
As I've stated here before, caffeine is a red hearing because it IS considered safe. We don't let children gamble and they don't have the money to shop to a point of addiction. Although, if we give them credit cards, they might. Nicotine is being researched, as is vaping. If it's shown to be totally safe, then I don't care who does it. I just have a hard time seeing that that's going to happen.
Um, what's "popular" got to do with anything? The regulations won't be popular. Not with us. Not with Vape Stores. Not with Juice makers. They will however come, no matter how hard people here huff and puff.
There is a difference between consumer goods and pharmaceuticals. Pharmaceuticals are designed to alter/interact with body chemistry. A consumer good comprised of ingredients that are all GRAS on their own, even if being used in a novel way, doesn't fall under the same restrictions.
But I get it, nicotine is evil.
Then we also have the argument that nicotine isn't addictive, only tobacco makes it addictive, but those who vape with nicotine say they have no choice but to smoke if they can't vape nicotine because their addicted to nicotine, which makes no sense.
They will tell you I can show you studies showing nicotine isn't addictive, nicotine makes me smarter, and so on. Its the tobacco companies that got me addicted to tobacco, its the secret stuff they add to tobacco that makes me addicted, not the nicotine. But then they go out and buy e liquid with nicotine cause if they can't vape with nicotine they say they must smoke tobacco. Its actually funny, but yet they wonder why minors shouldn't vape?? Its called common sense.
They will tell you I can show you studies showing nicotine isn't addictive, nicotine makes me smarter, and so on. Its the tobacco companies that got me addicted to tobacco, its the secret stuff they add to tobacco that makes me addicted, not the nicotine. But then they go out and buy e liquid with nicotine cause if they can't vape with nicotine they say they must smoke tobacco. Its actually funny, but yet they wonder why minors shouldn't vape?? Its called common sense.
Smoking cigarettes MAY cause cancer. It doesn't cause cancer in everyone. Not everyone develops emphysema. My grandmother lived to be 90 and smoked every single day of her life from the age of 12 & she was fit as a fiddle till she died of stroke related issues. Genetics, luck, other environmental factors all play a role.
Dr F essentially said the flavorings of concern are an avoidable risk, right? Isn't he the main source of the science we accept? If it's at acceptable levels then why mention it or single the flavorings out?
Who's suggesting we STOP people from vaping ? Other than minors...and yes, I will stand firm that they shouldn't be allowed to vape. Once they hit the age of consent, they can smoke or vape, or buy porn or visit prostitutes in Las Vegas, or gamble...or visit a state where lots of stuff is legal. Or they can break the law and do it before they are 18 like everyone else does.
I vape for the harm reduction.....and my cold turkey attempts to quit smoking weren't working. I think that's the main benefit for the majority. But can't I choose to vape AND ask for some standardization on e liquid without having my intentions questioned?
Dr F essentially said the flavorings of concern are an avoidable risk, right? Isn't he the main source of the science we accept? If it's at acceptable levels then why mention it or single the flavorings out?
Who's suggesting we STOP people from vaping ? Other than minors...and yes, I will stand firm that they shouldn't be allowed to vape. Once they hit the age of consent, they can smoke or vape, or buy porn or visit prostitutes in Las Vegas, or gamble...or visit a state where lots of stuff is legal. Or they can break the law and do it before they are 18 like everyone else does.
I vape for the harm reduction.....and my cold turkey attempts to quit smoking weren't working. I think that's the main benefit for the majority. But can't I choose to vape AND ask for some standardization on e liquid without having my intentions questioned?
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