The Flavor Apprentice Flavoring Thread
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Interesting! Of course, LFM work, and most all of the juice makers started with LFM, and many remain with LFM, some, even critical of HFM. So, we have now gone full circle, I suppose. The answer to your question is an absolute YES! LFM do work and use lower percentages and longer steep times to achieve the juice flavorings desired. Works great.....just slower.....so......harder to make juice quickly, given the time between remixing to achieve the desired result. Same thing ultimately, many claim better and more nuanced....perhaps they are right, too!
Is there a constant multiplier to use with the HFM to achieve same result with a LFM? A percentage of the mix that when steeped would be as good, or better, than the HFM? Perhaps. I don't know what that percentage/multiplier would be though, and is probably largely dependent on the mix in question. I doubt we could unilaterally say that using a 40% mix of the same ingredients, for example, would get you to a suitable LFM of the same flavoring. Frankly, all the other threads seem to gravitate in this direction, and you may find an answer there, certainly more LFM recipes there, and an entirely different view toward mixing generally than HFM. I use and advocate the HFM because it's quicker, which means the new juice maker can be making and vaping juice NOW, rather than later......or never. I didn't really want to use other people's recipes as I wanted to forge ahead on my own. No particular reason....just the way I am. Almost quit making juice. I was very unsuccessful using LFM. Nothing worked very well for me. After six months I lucked into an ADV with three flavors, my Cinnamon Danish ADV, a very HFM with 46% flavoring. I eventually lowered it to 23%, where it remains today. However, 23% is way above the LFM recommendations, so I began to experiment with HFM. The results have been posted here now, many times. It works for me and is what I use today. However, seems like many home juice makers use LFM. Many commercial juice makers use HFM and when I got into that business for a while and went to a couple of conventions and met those folks, I learned that many of them do use HFM for their commercial operations, but not all, of course. Again, same ideas, different steep times. The truth is that whatever works for you is the best way for you. My goal is simply to help people learn to make great juice quickly, something that took me a long time to figure out. That was two years ago.
I started sharing my ideas on this thread in a big way after my son passed away last summer. I found that giving back was a cathartic for me, and helped me through a very difficult time. I'm better, but you never really get over something like that. By helping others, I was able to stop focusing on my own issues so much, and it provided much needed relief. I've just hung around to help ever since. Maybe I've overstayed my stay. I don't know, but I still find posting here to be helpful. I thank everyone for their support. Ciao!
Bill, very sorry to hear of your loss. I've been trying my hand at DIY for a few months and you've given me a new perspective with this HFM idea. I like the concept of ATM vaping instead of mixing and waiting and hoping it turns into something great. I just thought I'd chime in and say that your words are very appreciated and valued. I hope you "overstay" your welcome for a very long time haha 
I am very grateful that there are several folks that foster the same freely shared experience mindset on this thread cause I would have quit, but now I have about 15 to 20 adv recipes that sprung from HFM. I believe the low flavor mix mindset keeps folks from making their own juice which keeps the Tommy hilfiger juice companies making money from HFM mixes that they sell as presteepped
Bill I'm sorry for your loss.
I for one will be studying your posts / blogs and I hope you keep them coming!
I for one will be studying your posts / blogs and I hope you keep them coming!
Bill, I was unaware of the loss of your son. Sending hugs....
I have truly appreciated all who post here - it's given me a lot to think about (and recipes to "borrow" ) I'm kind of a simpleton - I know some things that I like and I get ideas of proportions from here. I was mostly curious how I'd approach a LFM (and if there was some "magic ratio") but I'm not overly ambitious (at least not right at the moment )
Thanks all, so very much....
I have truly appreciated all who post here - it's given me a lot to think about (and recipes to "borrow"
) I'm kind of a simpleton - I know some things that I like and I get ideas of proportions from here. I was mostly curious how I'd approach a LFM (and if there was some "magic ratio") but I'm not overly ambitious (at least not right at the moment )Thanks all, so very much....
Does anyone know what cream(s) are added to TFA Banana Cream and Strawberries and Cream? Just curious.
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Bill, as a relatively new parent, my heart goes out to you.
As far as you having overstayed, Ithink know there are hoards of vapers on this forum that would beg to differ!
As far as you having overstayed, I
I don't. But, you can go to the TFA site and look at the specific list of ingredients for each of their flavors and figure it out, or get very close to figuring it out by studying the ingredient list and comparing the ingredients of those flavors to the ingredients of the various creams. Good luck!
I'm going to start tinkering with the 100DT method of making/testing ejuices that Bill recommended. I have ordered the little glass dropper pipettes that Bill recommended.
In order to taste test the samples, will need some sort of small dripper/cartomizer to taste test the samples. I only have clearomizer tanks at this time (I'm new to vaping and don't have a lot of hardware yet). So, would someone be so kind as to recommend a good device to test my 100DT ejuices? (I did some searching for this in the forums, but I did not find this info.)
Thank you.
In order to taste test the samples, will need some sort of small dripper/cartomizer to taste test the samples. I only have clearomizer tanks at this time (I'm new to vaping and don't have a lot of hardware yet). So, would someone be so kind as to recommend a good device to test my 100DT ejuices? (I did some searching for this in the forums, but I did not find this info.)
Thank you.
Hoping your son feels better soon, Mom! We've missed you! Good luck!
Thank you Bill, appreciate the well wishes
Grab you some 510 attys. Theyre only a few bucks each and work great for taste testing
You'll get a lot of input on this. I've tried pretty much everything and settled on taste testing with the gear that I vape with on a daily basis. I may or may not rewick between mixes. I may or may not change to a backup device between mixes. I'm trying to get a sense for the taste, which takes me a few minutes on each mix, and since I'm going to be using the juice on specific gear, it makes sense to me to use my daily day in and day out gear and not special taste testing gear. This is how I ended up with a dozen Taifun's, my preferred ADV gear. This will vary by user, but I think either adding another one of whatever you use daily to the rotation, or simply re-wicking, or simply vaping until you can clearly experience the new mix is all you need. Believe me, I was a real hardware hound for more than a year, and had about 50 vaporizers and double or more that in tanks/atomizers. Now I only use what I use to vape and to taste test. Most reliable way in my opinion. That being said, specialty cartomizers are ok, but just different enough that my daily vape to mess up my juices when I vaped with my ADV gear. The real answer is that whatever works for you works for you! Of course, having a reason to buy new gear always makes my day, so I get it! Good luck!
I was here when you lost your son, Bill, and expressed my condolences then but there can never be enough. When my son went to Iraq was the worst 14 months of worry in my life. I was fortunate he came home unscathed. To loose a child has to be the worst hurt of all.
I quoted Mr Mann because I have "known" him for a long time and truer words could not be spoken. We all value your experience and even though some of it I have read several times, it never gets old and more and more people learn and grow from your words. Myself included. Especially me! So please continue. Would not be the same without you.
Thank you all, my friends. You know how to make one feel welcome. Many thanks!
LOL.. yes I did mean 25% total flavoring, however, the only flavoring was key lime - so you're right on both counts. To clarify, I made it up super strong to use as what I think of as a "mixer" -- same way I sometimes spike my juice "en tanke" with few drops of a store-bought menthol solution if I'm getting vaper's tongue or I just feel like something different. A lot of things go well with lime, it turns out!
So, over a period of months, I'd put a few drops of the 25% mix in my tank to change things up; I never actually vaped the 25% straight. Its effect, which was wonderful at first in various fruity mixtures (and even with menthol), changed over time into what i described before: an unbearably harsh, hyper-throat-hitting nastiness--even when dosing the tank with only a few drops. I'm pretty convinced it went reasty because of the citric acid content, since nothing similar has happened to any of my other juices.
I should also say I live in a tropical climate and have no means of climate control aside from the refrigerator. I did keep it out of the sun and as cool as possible, but it sat for probably four months in temperatures varying between 70-87 degrees F. If I did the same thing again, I would definitely keep it in the fridge.
LOL.. yes I did mean 25% total flavoring, however, the only flavoring was key lime - so you're right on both counts. To clarify, I made it up super strong to use as what I think of as a "mixer" -- same way I sometimes spike my juice "en tanke" with few drops of a store-bought menthol solution if I'm getting vaper's tongue or I just feel like something different. A lot of things go well with lime, it turns out!
So, over a period of months, I'd put a few drops of the 25% mix in my tank to change things up; I never actually vaped the 25% straight. Its effect, which was wonderful at first in various fruity mixtures (and even with menthol), changed over time into what i described before: an unbearably harsh, hyper-throat-hitting nastiness--even when dosing the tank with only a few drops. I'm pretty convinced it went reasty because of the citric acid content, since nothing similar has happened to any of my other juices.
I should also say I live in a tropical climate and have no means of climate control aside from the refrigerator. I did keep it out of the sun and as cool as possible, but it sat for probably four months in temperatures varying between 70-87 degrees F. If I did the same thing again, I would definitely keep it in the fridge.
Key Lime contains the following ingredients:
COMPONENT / CAS / Description
Propylene Glycol 57-55-6 >= 10% no taste
Limonene 138-86-3 >= 10% citrus herbal terpene camphor
Pinene <beta-> 127-91-3 >= 1% and < 10% appears in this flavor as a component of a natural extract - piney,minty with spicy nuance
Eucalyptol 470-82-6 < 1% eucalyptus herbal camphor
Linalool 78-70-6 < 1% citrus, orange, lemon, floral, waxy, aldehydic and woody
Terpineol <alpha-> 98-55-5 < .5% pine terpene lilac citrus woody floral
Terpinolene 586-62-9 < .5% woody, terpy, lemon and lime-like with a slight herbal and floral nuance
Geranial 141-27-5 < .5% found in natural plant material
Neral 106-26-3 < .5% found in natural plant materials
Geranyl acetate 105-87-3 < .5% waxy, green, floral, oily and soapy with citrus and winey, rum nuances
Additional information can be found on the attached pdf:
View attachment KeyLimeFlavor.pdf
There's a reason this flavoring comes in the tank cracker bottles from TFA. The components in concentration can cause irritation and contain chemicals that are approved for use in foods, but in other areas as well, including solvents, insecticide, perfume, etc. This is strong stuff and should be used carefully in mixes. I quickly checked on several of these chemicals, and I remain inclined to use this flavor sparingly and infrequently, and in a balanced mix with other flavorings. Make your own determinations. All of this information can be obtained from TFA in the FAQ section and you can research pretty much all the ingredients on Wikipedia. Good luck!
Why not? Roughly the same price as the ounce at TFA with bulk discount!
Yeah, 4oz is definitely more economical. Just not sure it'll be one I'll be able to vape a lot - that sounds like a bad idea. I probably will end up ordering a 4oz. bottle though.
Reminds me of an adventure I had with a cinnamon fireball type juice I had once. I loved the flavor and vaped it like crazy for about a week til I ran out of it. My taste buds were pretty much fried and sore for about the next week or so.
Well thanks again Bill for helping me find my ADVs! Just dropped $70 at TFA and redid my last order in 4oz sizes this time hehe.. Gonna have Grape and Watermelon and Strawberry bazooka and bubble burst for days now!! Actually I think I added Green Apple too which I havent even opened from my last order from WL, but I think it should substitute perfectly in that bazooka recipe!! I still gotta drop some of that in my iClear and see if its really a tank eater or not, Ive had Green Apple from a vendor that worked fine in my plastic tanks.. Got Cotton Candy just for the heck of it too so I can make the Starburst variations as well..
All is good in vape land.. With these Kayfun 4s I need to be more on the ball with keeping my juice stocked.. These things suck down juice like a Dodge Hemi eats gas but its sooooooo good flavor and vapor wise! My new Sigelei Mini just said THANK YOU NOW LETS DO THIS!!
All is good in vape land.. With these Kayfun 4s I need to be more on the ball with keeping my juice stocked.. These things suck down juice like a Dodge Hemi eats gas but its sooooooo good flavor and vapor wise! My new Sigelei Mini just said THANK YOU NOW LETS DO THIS!!
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