Many of my recipes using TFA are in blog posts, YES! Including Cream Fantastico! Good luck!
The Flavor Apprentice Flavoring Thread
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Great job Andria! A wonderful contribution. Thank you for sharing your hard work with us!
You already know this, but since you keep referring to Cream Fantastico, I'll share this with those that don't know. Cream Fantastico is a juice/flavoring that was always intended to be used as its own base flavoring, and not necessarily its own juice....alone. While it is good as a creamy flavored juice, I developed it to quickly add to fruits, pretty much any fruits, to make a finished flavoring, at around a 1/3 fruit and 2/3 CF blend. And this is pretty much how you have done it, with your own special modifications, all of which make it YOUR juice. An excellent example of how you can take a flavoring, tweak it to suit your preferences, and make it your own. I believe the credit goes to you, for recognizing all of these subtleties and mixing it to your own tastes, and thank you for sharing "your experiment" with all of us!
Thx Bill, the only credit I can claim is the actual mixing -- both recipes were yours! And I think I'll tweak this one a little more; the peach seems to kinda get lost with the other fruit flavors, so I'm thinking maybe 6.5% blueberry, 6% peach, and 5% strawberry, would give each flavor a better representation. That shisha strawberry is a pretty strong flavor, tends to dominate the peach with them at the same ratio. Peach has never been one of my most-favorite flavors, but I really like it in the Flamingo, so I do think it should be brought forward more, in this Fantastique -- and I think it might be the peach that's really helping the TH.
Andria
I am chasing a new ADV that I am really struggling with. I am looking to create a fruit mix that is fresh like a kool aid drink and does not have any creamy flavor if that makes sense. I really like blueberry and have tried almost every flavor ( Wild, Extra, Flavor west ) in Bill's star burst mix but some how I am just not getting the that cool liquid taste I am hunting for. Anyone have any idea's or pointers?
Ive played around with tfa grape juice and the only thing I can get it to taste like is grape koolaid. 12% grape juice, 1-2% koolada maybe up your alley
Ok I'm about to make my first batch. I just kinda made a recipe using the flavors I had at the moment. I wanted to run it by you guys before I start... I'll do 15ml and I'll only nicotine if the flavor comes out ok.
Banana Cream 6%
DX Banana Cream 6%
Bavarian Cream 4%
Toasted Marsh mellow 4%
Sweet Cream 2%
Cinnamon 2%
Vanilla Custard 1%
Banana Cream 6%
DX Banana Cream 6%
Bavarian Cream 4%
Toasted Marsh mellow 4%
Sweet Cream 2%
Cinnamon 2%
Vanilla Custard 1%
If you keep the creams and vanillas fairly low, at say 3 - 4% for each, you will expand the primary flavoring without creating the creamy flavor that you are trying to avoid. One of the early DIY lessons I learned is that creams and vanillas can super enhance the primaries without dominating the mix if kept at low percentages (generally under 6%). So, don't worry about a little cream and vanilla....they will help your fruit to POP. Also, don't forget to use sweetener and/or cotton candy. You can't get true fruit without sweetener as fruits are sweet (fructose). To get a fruit flavoring in a vape, you have to add both the fruit and the sweetener, or you won't get them to POP. Try 3 - 5% on sweetener (depending on your sweet tooth).
Ok, now you want to get that "clean" flavoring of fruit, without the dessert. You mentioned that sweet and tart is not what you're looking for, but remember, depending on the fruit, they can be both sweet and tart (lemon, for example, and many other citrus flavorings). Clean implies cool, so think koolada and menthol. Menthol is super strong, think .5 - 1% tops. Koolada has a little more room, think 1 - 2%. The other thing you can do for "clean" is to add other fruits that are also cool like watermelon, blueberry, raspberry, strawberry, etc. My Cool Breeze recipe replicates this cooler effect:
Cool Breeze
Watermelon - 9%
Blueberry - 7%
Menthol - 4%
Raspberry - 4%
Lemon Lime - 2%
Koolada - 2%
Cotton Candy - 2%
Adding some lemon to the mix (coupla drops) can make the juice POP, as well. Mixing two or more fruits can produce amazing, sometimes unpredictable results, and give you that clean fruit taste. Some examples from my recipe book:
Peaches and Pears
Pear - 5%
Juicy Peach - 5%
Cotton Candy - 5%
Brown Sugar - 5%
Watermelon Surprise (watermelon and lemon)
Watermelon - 14%
Sweetener - 5%
Watermelon Candy - 4%
Lemon - 2%
Orange Cream - 2%
Sweet and Tart - 2%
Koolada - 1%
Flamingo (strawberry and Peach)
Strawberry - 8%
Juicy Peach - 7%
Coconut - 3%
Sweetener - 2%
Dragon's Blood (Dragonfruit and Strawberry)
Dragon Fruit - 10%
Cotton Candy - 5%
Strawberry - 5%
Bavarian Cream - 4%
Vanilla Cupcake - 2.5%
Sweet Cream - 2%
Vanilla Swirl - 1.5%
Orange Dreamcycle
Cherry - 6%
Raspberry - 6%
Orange - 6%
Dulce de Leche - 2% (remove this one ingredient and see how it POPs into another flavoring)
Cotton Candy - 5%
Some other ideas I've used include the use of alcohol flavorings such as Jamaican Rum (also champagne):
Monkey Business
Bananas Foster - 12%
Cinnamon Danish - 6%
Vanilla Swirl - 4%
Jamaican Rum - 5%
Brown Sugar - 3%
For those flavorings that make the fruit POP, also think about Tropical Drink vapes. I have listed a few here:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blogs/bill-s-magic-vapor/7277-tropical-recipe-ideas.html
Another idea that I would play around with includes mixing the grapes together, and not as one single grape flavoring. Try Grape with Grape Candy, Wild with Extra, for example.
Also, on percentages of fruit, if you want a fruitier, cleaner fruit flavoring, make sure that the fruits are at least 50% of the mix. So, try grape and strawberry for example at 50% of flavoring. This is very key to getting a fruitier Grape Starburst, for example:
Fruity Grape Bubbleburst
Grape - 6%
Strawberry - 2 - 4%
Vanilla Swirl - 2 - 4% (for some reason Vanilla Bourbon also comes to mind here)
Bubblegum - 2%
Sweet and Tart - 2%
Sweet Cream - 2 - 4%
One last point comes to mind. A few TFA flavors will go chemical/floral on you quickly. Grape is one such flavor that does this, as well. I have another blog on the subject that might help:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-how-eliminate-chemical-floral-notes-mix.html
A careful review of these ideas and writings may very well provide the clues to the vape you are looking for. Plan on quite a number of 100DT attempts. I would think five to twenty attempts would be required. I believe you will get there by implementing one or more of these strategies. Good Luck! Vape Strong!
P.S. You cannot outthink flavoring. DIY is not necessarily intuitive, particularly at first! Don't skip any of these steps. You might be surprised with the Journey, what you end up producing, and how you got there! Some of my best discoveries were accidents. Go for it!
Bill,
Thanks for the advice.... the Peaches and Pairs is my current ADV my backup is Lemon Lime Star Burst, my wifes ADV is Orange Peppermint.
We love to experiment and have come up with flavors that a lot of our older kids and friends love as well... I have to admit we have flavors from a wide variety of vendors although TFA is the largest collection we have.
I have been hunting this cool clean blueberry for the last month and cant quite get there. I have mixed a wide verity of Blueberry flavors in your Star burst and Cream Fantastico. The flavor always seems to come out wrong. I have tried adding Strawberry and Raspberry as supporting flavors.
While researching I have found a number of recipes that include EM, but I thought I read in this forum that Cotton candy is the same thing. Is this true?
I am trying to strike a balance between sweet and cool.... not really menthol cool but more like water refreshing cool.
I like 70/30 mix because I drip and my wife likes 50/50 because she uses a tank.... could the VG/PG ratios be part of my problem?
Thanks for the advice.... the Peaches and Pairs is my current ADV my backup is Lemon Lime Star Burst, my wifes ADV is Orange Peppermint.
We love to experiment and have come up with flavors that a lot of our older kids and friends love as well... I have to admit we have flavors from a wide variety of vendors although TFA is the largest collection we have.
I have been hunting this cool clean blueberry for the last month and cant quite get there. I have mixed a wide verity of Blueberry flavors in your Star burst and Cream Fantastico. The flavor always seems to come out wrong. I have tried adding Strawberry and Raspberry as supporting flavors.
While researching I have found a number of recipes that include EM, but I thought I read in this forum that Cotton candy is the same thing. Is this true?
I am trying to strike a balance between sweet and cool.... not really menthol cool but more like water refreshing cool.
I like 70/30 mix because I drip and my wife likes 50/50 because she uses a tank.... could the VG/PG ratios be part of my problem?
I just got done helping my daughter with homework and BAM I get taken to school by Bill Great write up Bill!
Great write up Bill!
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Cotton candy is Ethyl Maltol, but Ethyl Maltol is not always cotton candy. Even if you have the right recipe, once you get into weights of ingredients, flavorings can be different from one maker to the next. This is why I always say cotton candy and not EM. The PG/VG ratio can definitely affect the vape and may affect the cool/sweet you are looking for. Rather than Menthol, think about koolada, watermelon, blueberry, strawberry, with creams and vanillas in lower percentages. Try using brown sugar too. I do believe the recipe is there for you. If I knew what taste you were going for, I could probably make it for you and give you "my interpretation" of the flavoring/recipe, probably close enough for you to tweak to your liking. Do you have a commercial flavoring you want to replicate? Or does the flavoring exist only in the mind?
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I've found that the Koolada is a very versatile ingredient; use a lot and almost get a full-on menthol effect; use just a little, and it can give that sort of "refreshing-ness" I think you're looking for. It doesn't have that sort of wintergreen taste that menthol does, but it's cool.
And what Bill said, about using the creams/vanilla at very low percentages, absofreakinglutely... I've discovered that even the best, strongest fruit flavors are just kinda MEH without a touch of cream, or a very small amount of several different creams to keep any of them from being identifiable. It just makes the fruit flavors stand up and holler! Also sweetener makes a huge difference -- discovering sweetener was what finally made all ejuice tastable, to me -- I like a great deal more sweetness, most of the time, than most people do. What can I say, I was part of the Pepsi generation.
Andria
And what Bill said, about using the creams/vanilla at very low percentages, absofreakinglutely... I've discovered that even the best, strongest fruit flavors are just kinda MEH without a touch of cream, or a very small amount of several different creams to keep any of them from being identifiable. It just makes the fruit flavors stand up and holler! Also sweetener makes a huge difference -- discovering sweetener was what finally made all ejuice tastable, to me -- I like a great deal more sweetness, most of the time, than most people do. What can I say, I was part of the Pepsi generation.
Andria
Update: my stepfather got out of the hospital yesterday, and will be at a "rehab" center for the next 10 days. Fortunately the place he's at is very close to us, so we went by to see him tonight, and he's doing really well. His coloring is phenomenal, like his skin when he was much younger, so I think the triple-bypass is going to do him worlds of good, once he recovers. His doctor told him that the operation could mean an additional 20 yrs of life -- my stepfather says, "so I'm gonna live to be 95? Not sure I can handle that!"
Back to your regularly scheduled programming...
Andria
I always make a small batch 3-5mls for testing new ideas. Are you going to use both Banana Creams? What is the flavor profile you're looking for?
I'm not sure yet! It was my first DIY batch ever... The TFA cinnamon is STRONG, and it's more of a red hot cinnamon flavor than a cinnamon stick. So I ended up with a creamy banana flavored red hot. I guess I'm looking for a more straight forward banana flavor with a little bit of cinnamon aftertaste.
WOW for a first batch you didn't pull any punches
Sounds like you may want to test the cinnamon at 0.5%.
WOW for a first batch you didn't pull any punches
Here are a couple pics. I dunno why they are so small... I "steeped" the juice by throwing it in the microwave for ~8 secs and stirred with a glass rod. Then did some shaking once it was in the dropper. Didn't have very good gloves so I just avoided nicotine entirely. Granted I am doing this in my dorm, i'm kinda afraid an RA is going to see it and think I'm cooking .......
I learned the cinnamon lesson too.....I took an empty glass bottle and made a 1ml cinnamon to 9ml pg mix, its too hard when making small test batches to add a hint of cinnamon... Can't add a half drop
So the dilution helps me add just that hint of a flavor if thats all I want.
Just a note I always test mine when it's first mixed (ATM) and at set times to see how and if it changes. When I tested the microwave steep method I didn't like it's effect others do but unless you test the mix before you won't know if you do or not. Just my
Once the wife called an ambulance and of course when they showed up so did a bunch of cops. Now at the time all of my mixing supplies where on the kitchen table in plain view. When the cops saw those supplies they were a little confused
Just a note I always test mine when it's first mixed (ATM) and at set times to see how and if it changes. When I tested the microwave steep method I didn't like it's effect others do but unless you test the mix before you won't know if you do or not. Just my
How did you test it ATM? I had a 70/30 VG/PG blend it was really thick and I could see the flavorings weren't mixing in.
"Cool liquid taste" is kinda how I feel about dragonfruit... Can't quite explain it but cool is how I describe it.
++1 on the Koolada suggested by Bill and Andria......the mouth feel of a mint without the mint flavor!
Maybe a small % of dragonfruit to your blueberry and add koolada by drops to start.....1-2 drops per 10ml
Hope that helps
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