The Flavor Apprentice Flavoring Thread
- Thread starter glassmanoak
- Start date
- th_trl_thread_readers 0
- Status
Pany,
Here is a GREAT and VERY easy calculator: E-Juice Me up
It is VERY easy to understand and use!
Welcome to the thread Pany!
Much of this info comes from Bill, and other great contributors. Some of it is my own weirdness.
The most important things with measuring by drops is:
1) ALWAYS use the same droppers for your measurements. Every different type of dropper out there will "meter" different sizes of drops. So 20 drops out of one dropper may net you 1ml, whereas another dropper will take 37 drops to get you an ml. You want to use the same droppers every time so that you can have confidence in the drops giving you the same results.
2) Different ingredients will have a different drops/ml count. I don't bother measuring each flavoring's drop count - for TFA flavorings they're mostly PG-based - but the main thing to take away from this is that VG will have a different drops/ml count than PG. So I got a good 10ml graduated cylinder, drew a dropper full of VG out, and counted how many drops it took to make 1ml. Then I did the same with PG. And recorded those values.
The nicotine base I use is 100% VG, so I use my VG count for nicotine, and I use the PG drops count for flavorings across the board. (I am using almost exclusively TFA flavorings).
3) Only measure by drops when doing recipe/flavor development -- it's too much hassle when mixing significant quantities of e-liquid. Going by Bill's methods (mostly), and using the 4" glass droppers he recommended available from Amazon, when doing the 100DT method for recipe development and mixing 2.5ml sampler batches, 1 drop of a flavoring basically comes out to 1% in the mix. Once you find a recipe/flavor mix you like, you can simply call the drop counts you used for your flavorings the percentage value of those flavorings - so now you have the percentages you can use when you are mixing larger quantities.
Bill has more posts about his 100DT (100 drop test) method here in this thread and also in his blog entries. Once you get your head wrapped around using this method, it gives you a great simple way to experiment with recipes that easily translates to flavor percentages in e-liquid calculators like EJuice Me Up.
Just another way Bill has really helped us take DIY to the next level.
Much of this info comes from Bill, and other great contributors. Some of it is my own weirdness.
The most important things with measuring by drops is:
1) ALWAYS use the same droppers for your measurements. Every different type of dropper out there will "meter" different sizes of drops. So 20 drops out of one dropper may net you 1ml, whereas another dropper will take 37 drops to get you an ml. You want to use the same droppers every time so that you can have confidence in the drops giving you the same results.
2) Different ingredients will have a different drops/ml count. I don't bother measuring each flavoring's drop count - for TFA flavorings they're mostly PG-based - but the main thing to take away from this is that VG will have a different drops/ml count than PG. So I got a good 10ml graduated cylinder, drew a dropper full of VG out, and counted how many drops it took to make 1ml. Then I did the same with PG. And recorded those values.
The nicotine base I use is 100% VG, so I use my VG count for nicotine, and I use the PG drops count for flavorings across the board. (I am using almost exclusively TFA flavorings).
3) Only measure by drops when doing recipe/flavor development -- it's too much hassle when mixing significant quantities of e-liquid. Going by Bill's methods (mostly), and using the 4" glass droppers he recommended available from Amazon, when doing the 100DT method for recipe development and mixing 2.5ml sampler batches, 1 drop of a flavoring basically comes out to 1% in the mix. Once you find a recipe/flavor mix you like, you can simply call the drop counts you used for your flavorings the percentage value of those flavorings - so now you have the percentages you can use when you are mixing larger quantities.
Bill has more posts about his 100DT (100 drop test) method here in this thread and also in his blog entries. Once you get your head wrapped around using this method, it gives you a great simple way to experiment with recipes that easily translates to flavor percentages in e-liquid calculators like EJuice Me Up.
Just another way Bill has really helped us take DIY to the next level.
Last edited:
Welcome to the thread Pany!
Much of this info comes from Bill, and other great contributors. Some of it is my own weirdness.
The most important things with measuring by drops is:
1) ALWAYS[b/] use the same droppers for your measurements. Every different type of dropper out there will "meter" different sizes of drops. So 20 drops out of one dropper may net you 1ml, whereas another dropper will take 37 drops to get you an ml. You want to use the same droppers every time so that you can have confidence in the drops giving you the same results.
2) Different ingredients will have a different drops/ml count. I don't bother measuring each flavoring's drop count - for TFA flavorings they're mostly PG-based - but the main thing to take away from this is that VG will have a different drops/ml count than PG. So I got a good 10ml graduated cylinder, drew a dropper full of VG out, and counted how many drops it took to make 1ml. Then I did the same with PG. And recorded those values.
The nicotine base I use is 100% VG, so I use my VG count for nicotine, and I use the PG drops count for flavorings across the board. (I am using almost exclusively TFA flavorings).
3) Only measure by drops when doing recipe/flavor development -- it's too much hassle when mixing significant quantities of e-liquid. Going by Bill's methods (mostly), and using the 4" glass droppers he recommended available from Amazon, when doing the 100DT method for recipe development and mixing 2.5ml sampler batches, 1 drop of a flavoring basically comes out to 1% in the mix. Once you find a recipe/flavor mix you like, you can simply call the drop counts you used for your flavorings the percentage value of those flavorings - so now you have the percentages you can use when you are mixing larger quantities.
Bill has more posts about his 100DT (100 drop test) method here in this thread and also in his blog entries. Once you get your head wrapped around using this method, it gives you a great simple way to experiment with recipes that easily translates to flavor percentages in e-liquid calculators like EJuice Me Up.
Just another way Bill has really helped us take DIY to the next level.
Huhh.Huhh Huhhhh..Kewl...!
I am really trying to understand Bill's methods but I am still a little confused. Up to now, i was using some Greek flavors called Atmos Lab and I was mostly mixing 1-3 different flavors. I always do my trial and daily batches in 10ml bottles and I never bother mixing larger quantities. So for example I was doing the following using as a rule that in 10ml 1% equals 3 drops as I was always using the flavors own dropper:
4% cinnammon cookies = 12 drops
2% caramel = 6 drops
2% vanilla = 6 drops
1% em= 3 drops
for the 10ml bottle the rest would be my pg/vg base.
I am just trying to apply the same logic when using TFA flavors. However, as I see that the percentages suggested in the recipes are a bit high I am worried that if I use the same rule that I will end up using a little bit too much of everything.
4% cinnammon cookies = 12 drops
2% caramel = 6 drops
2% vanilla = 6 drops
1% em= 3 drops
for the 10ml bottle the rest would be my pg/vg base.
I am just trying to apply the same logic when using TFA flavors. However, as I see that the percentages suggested in the recipes are a bit high I am worried that if I use the same rule that I will end up using a little bit too much of everything.
I know Bill advocates high percentages of flavor in his juice. I think between 25-30%. I see yours is very low (like 9%) I am not sure about Atmos Lab flavorings, if they are more concentrated or not. His are based off of TFA's.
Pany,
I'll go ahead and ask away...I take it you are in Greece?
Do you have access to TFA flavors, and where are you purchasing them from; reason I ask is that many distributors of the TFA line repackage them, and we have learned that if you live outside of the US you may prefer not to buy directly from TFA because of the duties and taxes, etc. in the EU.
I am not sure but from some other posts their is someone in the EU that is a very reputable supplier of TFA flavors, I forget...
I will let Bill or Nic answer your questions....
Again Welcome!
Καλώς όρισες!
I'll go ahead and ask away...I take it you are in Greece?
Do you have access to TFA flavors, and where are you purchasing them from; reason I ask is that many distributors of the TFA line repackage them, and we have learned that if you live outside of the US you may prefer not to buy directly from TFA because of the duties and taxes, etc. in the EU.
I am not sure but from some other posts their is someone in the EU that is a very reputable supplier of TFA flavors, I forget...
I will let Bill or Nic answer your questions....
Again Welcome!
Καλώς όρισες!
Last edited:
First write down EVERYTHING you do. It is best to start out on the weak side and add more rather than try to weaken it later
Huhh.Huhh Huhhhh..Kewl...!
Yeah, yeah!! Hnnt-hnnt-hnnt!!! DIY RULES!!!
@pany:
The idea behind mixing smaller quantities while you're doing recipe/flavor testing and development is to avoid wasting ingredients when you end up with something that isn't good.
It also turns out very conveniently that if you mix up test batches of a recipe limiting the total number of drops of all different ingredients to 100 drops, 1 drop of anything is (in loose theory at least) 1% of the overall mix. In a purely scientific view this isn't completely accurate, since 1 drop of VG will be larger than 1 drop of PG through the same dropper, and your nicotine base might be anywhere on the map for PG/VG percentage. But you will end up somehwere around 2-2.5ml of ingredients overall, where 1 drop of a flavoring that is mostly or all PG-based (as almost all TFA flavorings are) will effectively give you 1% of the recipe. Since the really important thing while you're working out a recipe is determining the percentages of the flavorings (and the ratio between flavorings), what's really important works out.
Hope this helps! Again, please read over Bill's Magic Vapor's blog posts -- he has so much good info in there.
The idea behind mixing smaller quantities while you're doing recipe/flavor testing and development is to avoid wasting ingredients when you end up with something that isn't good.
It also turns out very conveniently that if you mix up test batches of a recipe limiting the total number of drops of all different ingredients to 100 drops, 1 drop of anything is (in loose theory at least) 1% of the overall mix. In a purely scientific view this isn't completely accurate, since 1 drop of VG will be larger than 1 drop of PG through the same dropper, and your nicotine base might be anywhere on the map for PG/VG percentage. But you will end up somehwere around 2-2.5ml of ingredients overall, where 1 drop of a flavoring that is mostly or all PG-based (as almost all TFA flavorings are) will effectively give you 1% of the recipe. Since the really important thing while you're working out a recipe is determining the percentages of the flavorings (and the ratio between flavorings), what's really important works out.
Hope this helps! Again, please read over Bill's Magic Vapor's blog posts -- he has so much good info in there.
I'm moving the DK Vanilla Coconut recipe from the T&D section of my recipes blog post to the finished recipes. I find myself wanting this flavor a lot (have mixed my 3rd bottle of it this morning) -- will make a note about a "light" version of this with 1% reduced flavors for those who want a bit less flavor. But as of now this is the recipe I've made the most bottles of for me since developing the recipe.
First, thanks Larry for the recipes. Much Appreciated 
Second, exactly what is Acetyl Pyrazine ? What does it taste like, and are there any known inhalation hazards ? The reason why I ask is 1) I have no clue, and 2) I've seen it listed in several recipes.
Second, exactly what is Acetyl Pyrazine ? What does it taste like, and are there any known inhalation hazards ? The reason why I ask is 1) I have no clue, and 2) I've seen it listed in several recipes.
Bill and Nic,
Please post links to your blogs for Pany from Cyprus.
He is looking for recipes!
(Hope he is a he, Pany is a male name...)
From the NET and not Wikipedia:
[h=3]The name Pany is a baby boy name.[/h]
Welsh Meaning:
The name Pany is a Welsh baby name. In Welsh the meaning of the name Pany is: Son of Harry.
Please post links to your blogs for Pany from Cyprus.
He is looking for recipes!
(Hope he is a he, Pany is a male name...)
From the NET and not Wikipedia:
[h=3]The name Pany is a baby boy name.[/h]
Welsh Meaning:
The name Pany is a Welsh baby name. In Welsh the meaning of the name Pany is: Son of Harry.
First, thanks Larry for the recipes. Much Appreciated
Second, exactly what is Acetyl Pyrazine ? What does it taste like, and are there any known inhalation hazards ? The reason why I ask is 1) I have no clue, and 2) I've seen it listed in several recipes.
Acetylpyrazine is an organic compound with the chemical formula C6H6N2O
It is a yellow-brown powder at room temperature.[2] Chemically, acetylpyrazine is a pyrazine and a ketone.[1]
Acetylpyrazine is found in foods such as seeds, nuts and meats. It is used in frozen dairy products such as ice cream. It is considered generally recognized as safe by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration
I forget what it tastes like....
I wouldn't snort it...LOL
Inhalation wise, once it's mixed in e-juice ...dunno, I thinks it's one of those "we need to study" and in 100 years we'll tell ya' it kills lab rats when we exposed them to 6,000,000,000 times what a human would ever take in!
Last edited:
Bill and Nic,
Please post links to your blogs for Pany from Cyprus.
He is looking for recipes!
(Hope he is a he, Pany is a male name...)
From the NET and not Wikipedia:
[h=3]The name Pany is a baby boy name.[/h]
Welsh Meaning:
The name Pany is a Welsh baby name. In Welsh the meaning of the name Pany is: Son of Harry.
Thanks, for your help and also my mistake for not introducing myself properly. I am a 40 year old female and Pany is the short name for Panayiota. (it comes from Panayia the mother of Jesus)
Greek Meaning:
The name Panagiota is a Greek baby name. In Greek the meaning of the name Panagiota is: Holy.
First, thanks Larry for the recipes. Much Appreciated
Second, exactly what is Acetyl Pyrazine ? What does it taste like, and are there any known inhalation hazards ? The reason why I ask is 1) I have no clue, and 2) I've seen it listed in several recipes.
This is how Flavor Apprentice describes it. Most find it adds a "nutty flavor'. Use too much, and you get "corn chips".
Perfumers Apprentice - Acetyl Pyrazine 5 PG
Pany, you can use about 3 drops for each 1% and you will produce about 9 - 12 ml of juice, depending on drop size. Try the calculator ITTech provided. My blogs are here
<<<<<<<<
<<<<<<<<
Last edited:
I got mine on Amazon. Great for all sorts of uses, as well. I use in my juice, and in my dishwasher! Great stuff. Good luck!
Do you know if it will get rid of the musty odor that washing machines get? I've been noticing lately everytime I open my washing machine, there's this stale, musty odor. Icky.
Andria
On a side note to all you out there mixing TART fruit concoctions...you can experiment with SMALL amounts of diluted citric acid to add tartness to your mixes!
I highly suggest using TFA Tart and Sweet as your base agent like as in the Star Burst recipe....
Jus' say'in.....
I've been wondering about using some of this in my Strawberries and Cream. I've started drastically lowering the amount of sweetener, because as this mix sits, it seems to get sweeter and sweeter and sweeter until it's nearly sickening. I mixed up some of it with no added sweetener to mix in with what I had, and that helped some, but it seems to have kinda killed the "bite" -- was wondering if I used just a little sweetener and a little Tart and Sweet, if that might give me back the "bite"?
Andria
BTW... is there anything weird going on in the Durham, NC area? Fire, flood, apocalypse...? I ordered some flavors from BCV last week, and I usually get them in about 2 days, they're so close. This time, though... I ordered on the 14th, it was shipped on the 15th, and since the Durham PO accepted it on the 15th... nada. Nuttin. No tracking info whatsoever. It seems to have fallen into a black hole or something. I mean, I know it's been raining a LOT here in the SE, but... mail trucks still run when it's raining, right?
Andria
Andria
- Status
Similar threads
