The Flavor Apprentice Flavoring Thread

[Desert Willow]

No idea... I have that same problem with Rootbeer flavor.

 

[Doug_xx2]

No idea... I have that same problem with Rootbeer flavor.

I think is solved the milk problem but that yellow thing is just weird tastes great though

Time, what you need to add to your juice is time. RY4 requires a long steep to really shine.
I would cut that concentration by at least 1/2.

Ry4 double is my husband's ADV. I mix 100ml/month at 6%. We put it into a dark cupboard for 3 months before opening the bottle. (There are 3 100 ml bottles in the cupboard right now, about 1 month apart in their travel to maturity.)

This juice really shines after a long steep... a really long steep but well worth it!

I will definitely try that I really like the taste of tobacco. I was a tobacco before I ever started smoking and Still was known to do it when I was hunting. Thanks for the advice.

 

[Doug_xx2]

As a general rule tobacco flavors need to steep so I'm almost positive that's your problem. Find a good fruit or candy mix to enjoy right away while you wait for your tobacco to do its thing.

Thank you for the advice. This is a first attempt with artificial tobacco flavors.

 

[partyannimal]

Thank you for the advice. This is a first attempt with artificial tobacco flavors.

You're welcome. Don't know if you like them, but for future reference chocolates and creams are best after a steep too.


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[Wingsfan0310]

I just got some dk base ry4 double and m type. Mixed a batch and my first impression is that the ry4 double was weak and didn't taste like tobacco the m type was strong and nasty and so was the dk base (they didn't taste like tobacco either) I mixed em at 15% so I think I need to cut the dk base and m type waaaay back and I'm not sure what to do with the ry4 to make it taste right.

I didn't let em sit at all (lol impatient you know) and after all was said and done I ended up mixing em up to taste with some molasses flavoring and sweetener and they are bearable 2 days in but I am interested in trying to make something that tastes right so can anyone tell me what %'s of these they use?

BTW I was also mixing some tfa cinnamon red hots (pg) and had some interesting issues. If you want to check that thread out I think I came up with a solution.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/529658-help-tpa-red-hots-flavor-pg.html
TIA
Doug_xx2

Hi Doug,

The M Type is best at .5-1% (I think at 15% it would effective paint remover ). The DK is best at 2-5%. RY4 Double is my favorite, I mix it at 8% with 1 drop of AP per 5ml for a little nuttyness. Sometime I also add 2-3% Caramel and 2% Bavarian Cream or Vanilla Swirl for a sweet treat.

Here's a link to the suggested flavoring percentages for single flavor TFA mixes
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...0-flavor-apprentice-flavoring-thread-168.html

Cheers,

 

[SweptEdge]

Hello there,
I'm experiencing some problems with my TFA flavors. I had luck mixing Coconut Candy with Pineapple, then I liked straight Blueberry candy with a couple of drops of menthol, But as far as the others are concerned I think they may be lacking flavor and sweetener. Maybe I just have vapers tongue, but I cant taste the flavors hardly too. can we start with one favor, say Bubble gum and mix it to 10%-15% (I mixed it to 10%) and add sweetener? The sweetener I'm using is High Desert Vapes (HDV) sweetener: sucralose 5% PG. 50/50 on the pg/vg, and I'm at 18mg Nicotine. Does this recipe look correct? When I taste the flavor on my finger tip, it doesn't taste nearly as sweet as the Candy Coconut/Pineapple mix.

 

[we2rcool]

Do you add lemon or ACV to your mix?

no! No! NO! NOOOOOOOOOOO! We don't, and when we did - we always found that the mixes diminished in flavor after a few days week. The same thing happens with Sweetener (and it diminishes flavor substantially). Vinegar, lemon juic and sucralose/sweetener are showing to be the main reasons that so many folks have to use such high percentages!

This has been proven! However, folks don't take the time to read the thread (and so many people keep repeating the opposite, because the initial results are fine). From this thread: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/268760-diy-master-techniques-flavor-add-ons-em-vw-bw-mts-acv-ect-11.html

We agree 100%! 'Almost sure there's somewhere in this thread (maybe it's another) where someone painstakingly added vinegar (lemon juice/both?) to a variety of mixes - and made controls without the vinegar/lemon. The end result was that the additives used DID enhance the flavor initially, but in the end comparison - the flavor intensity was LESS in the juices with the added vinegar/lemon, than those without.

'Dunno how that may work with all the additives, but we've a sneaky suspicion from the very small amount of juices we've made with added Sucralose, that it may be a 'flavor killer in the end' as well.

#408

As far as I can recall, I was the one who tested lemon juice and the effects it had on fruit flavors. At the time I was also using sucralose (ezsweets) in fruit/bakery flavors. I also tested distilled vinegar (not acv, I dont use it) on tobaccos.

What I found with fruit and bakery vapes is they were great initally with the additives, for about two days. Then on day 3 like clockwork the sharpness/crispness of the flavor was just... plain... gone. It never rebounded either. It just continued decline. So I started testing the same juices with lemon juice and sucralose separately. Trying to find the culprit. The result in my tests was that they BOTH decrease flavor output of ejuice. While they help initally boost and sweeten flavor, within a few days, they both cause ejuice to simply go flat. While its a more dramatic example, I feel the same way about ejuice with lemon or sucralose as I do about flat soda pop. Its just lackluster.

This occured in both high VG bases at 80% and high PG bases at 80%. I tested both because I didnt want people calling me out saying VG mutes flavor, which to this day I refute as utter nonsense.

I no longer use either in any of my mixing. I have found that using fruit flavors with alcohol bases provide more than enuff sweetening o. their own if they are steeped for 48-72 hours, and it helps that I use 80%VG in my juice.

As far as tobaccos go I also agree vinegar that after a few days it can flatten flavors over time. However!!! As I vape mostly tobacco ejuices I still add 1 drop/5ml of distilled white vinegar to my vapes. To counter the flattening I adjust by adding slightly more flavoring. About .5% to 1% more flavoring in a final mix. In my experience this counters the effect of flavor flattening with DV and allows mostly all tobacco vapes to round out immediately. (note: i also heat steep my juices at a constant 150° in a water bath in a crock pot for four hours after mixing and have found it it adds about 2 weeks to the aging process of ejuice). At the 2 weeks mark (in my case then this is 4 hours after mixing), all of your tobacco flavors will have a spike in flavor and will stay there, but only round more given time. Giving you a spiked up flavor but still rounded body to your vape. I found apple cider vinegar made bad and good juuces worse with no spike at all, but to be fair I barely ever tested acv.

All of my vapes... yes read that as ALL... are primed and full bodied in four hours. Period. Ultrasonic isnt the answer either. Hand shaking is enuff for juice. Heat allows flavor dissipation and release FAR FAR better.

Alot of what I do flys in the face of common and well "documented" processes others use like ultrasonic steeping tho. (if it works for ya, great. I know what I know and heat is the key, not vibration. And yeah, I tested that too about three months ago so I stand behind it).

People just pretty much ignored my testing. I took painstaking measures to control the samples and.prove to myself the results. Today when people say they use lemon juice, or sucralose and RAVE about the results.... I know they are NOT vaping stellar juice. They are absolutely, positively, better off without both. Unless they are going to vape what they make in under two days.

Note: I did not bother testing the effects of citric acid powder in juice, but I assume it has the same effect as lemon juice and mutes flavors.

#413

I recently performed a very controlled test on ACV versus no ACV. What I have found is:

1) The initial flavor of a tobacco mix with ACV seems better. The overall flavor was smoother and the taste seemed to be enhanced.

2) After a few days aging the mix with ACV changes very little, perhaps slightly muted.

3) The initial flavor of the same mix without ACV was harsher and less balanced. The taste seem to be diminished.

4) After a few days aging the mix without ACV had smoothed and balanced considerably, and the overall taste was similar but stronger than the mix with ACV.

This is very speculative, because different mixes might exhibit different results, however my initial impression is that ACV "seems" to enhance flavor initially, but I believe this is because it may in fact attenuate the total flavor. Initial suppression of some harsh notes could give the impression that the "good" flavor was stronger simply because some harshness that might interfere was suppressed.

After a little aging the harsher elements of the mix without ACV seem to diminish and the result is also a smoother more balanced taste , but also stronger flavor because the "good" flavors are less affected by harsher notes, and now more prominent by virtue of also not being diminished by ACV.

So in summary I believe ACV diminishes flavor, giving an impression of "better" flavor initially but at the cost of total flavor. Brief aging without ACV allows the harsher notes to decline without the better flavors having been diminished as well, and the final result after just a few days is a fuller, equally smooth blend but more overall flavor after a little aging.

Until I decide otherwise, although ACV has been a standard in all my tobacco blends for a long time, I am now currently eliminating it entirely...

PS: At some point I also experimented with dilute citrus flavors - not to add citrus taste but with the intent of pH modification with a milder agent than ACV. I have not repeated those in a controlled experiment but I believe my conclusions were similar - lowering pH by any agent may result in "improved" initial taste but ultimately diminished tobacco flavors...)

Of course YMMV ...

EM/Cotton Candy also diminishes flavors.

Folks may want to end up using these additives (of course), but when starting out DIYing -- using them without knowing their effects causes a LOT of frustration (not to mention 'waste of time', 'waste of products' and eventually inhaling far more chemicals than necessary).

 

[Dogeggs]

I have a question about TFA Graham Cracker, i have no idea what a Graham Cracker tastes like or even is...so i've made up a 5ml bottle to test, how long should i steep it before trying it out?

 

[03FXDWG]

I have a question about TFA Graham Cracker, i have no idea what a Graham Cracker tastes like or even is...so i've made up a 5ml bottle to test, how long should i steep it before trying it out?

Do you have vanilla wafers on your side of the pond? Graham crackers are probably what you would call wafers but to us they are thinner & crispier like crackers. Light brown sugar, little bit buttery and a little gritty like corn meal. We also have flavored graham crackers--honey, cinnamon, chocolate and probably others but the basic version is just brown sugar, butter and that slight grittiness.

We use it often for the crust on cheesecakes and pudding based pies.

I haven't used it yet in my experiments but I would guess 3 days minimum to allow the buttery/brown sugar to reach it's potential.

 

[Dogeggs]

Thanks 03, i had golden graham cereal when i was a kid, guess they're something like that...i'll have a taste in a few days.

 

[Desert Willow]

no! No! NO! NOOOOOOOOOOO! We don't, and when we did - we always found that the mixes diminished in flavor after a few days week. The same thing happens with Sweetener (and it diminishes flavor substantially). Vinegar, lemon juic and sucralose/sweetener are showing to be the main reasons that so many folks have to use such high percentages!

Exactly, that is why I asked. That was my first guess at why the taste would "disappear". Still wondering why some flavors get weak after a time, assuming they are well shaken when used.

My rootbeer is great after a week of aging. But when I make large batches, the flavor seems to mysteriously go away after a couple of months. No lemon, no ACV, and always well-shaken. Perhaps some flavors just don't last well.

 

[partyannimal]

I have a question about TFA Graham Cracker, i have no idea what a Graham Cracker tastes like or even is...so i've made up a 5ml bottle to test, how long should i steep it before trying it out?

I have a friend from "across the pond" and I'm sure she's had them. I'll ask her what u could compare them to...if anything lol. Graham crackers have a hearty and spicy flavor that not many other things can compare to. If you can't go out and find some, I hope I can tell you what you may have tried that's like them. Vanilla, or even cinnamon cookies and crackers aren't really a good comparison. As a last resort, you could find them cheap online. That would be your best bet at knowing for sure.


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[partyannimal]

Hello there,
I'm experiencing some problems with my TFA flavors. I had luck mixing Coconut Candy with Pineapple, then I liked straight Blueberry candy with a couple of drops of menthol, But as far as the others are concerned I think they may be lacking flavor and sweetener. Maybe I just have vapers tongue, but I cant taste the flavors hardly too. can we start with one favor, say Bubble gum and mix it to 10%-15% (I mixed it to 10%) and add sweetener? The sweetener I'm using is High Desert Vapes (HDV) sweetener: sucralose 5% PG. 50/50 on the pg/vg, and I'm at 18mg Nicotine. Does this recipe look correct? When I taste the flavor on my finger tip, it doesn't taste nearly as sweet as the Candy Coconut/Pineapple mix.

View attachment 308534

The posts about beginners and how to succeed will tell you to get to know your flavors by themselves in a mix starting around 5%, and that many flavors don't show themselves without a steep. Many mixes will smell/taste ok after mixing, but that doesn't tell you much about what their vape will taste like. Adding more, and more flavor will kill your efforts by negating the flavor. Once you know what your flavors should taste like alone at the right percents, it's much easier to mix them with others and know what will overpower what.


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[Doug_xx2]

Hello there,
I'm experiencing some problems with my TFA flavors. I had luck mixing Coconut Candy with Pineapple, then I liked straight Blueberry candy with a couple of drops of menthol, But as far as the others are concerned I think they may be lacking flavor and sweetener. Maybe I just have vapers tongue, but I cant taste the flavors hardly too. can we start with one favor, say Bubble gum and mix it to 10%-15% (I mixed it to 10%) and add sweetener? The sweetener I'm using is High Desert Vapes (HDV) sweetener: sucralose 5% PG. 50/50 on the pg/vg, and I'm at 18mg Nicotine. Does this recipe look correct? When I taste the flavor on my finger tip, it doesn't taste nearly as sweet as the Candy Coconut/Pineapple mix.

View attachment 308534

I recently made some of the bubble gum for my fiance and I made it at 0mg nic 60pg/40vg with 3ml of mount baker sweetener and 15% flavoring. I found that it tasted like the stale pieces of hubba bubba that were individually wrapped next to the register for a penney when I was a kid. I was actually hoping for something more like bubble yum (more flavorful and not stale tasting).

I also didn't steep it. I probably should have.

Hope this helps.

 

[Doug_xx2]

Exactly, that is why I asked. That was my first guess at why the taste would "disappear". Still wondering why some flavors get weak after a time, assuming they are well shaken when used.

My rootbeer is great after a week of aging. But when I make large batches, the flavor seems to mysteriously go away after a couple of months. No lemon, no ACV, and always well-shaken. Perhaps some flavors just don't last well.

What kind of percentages are you using for the root beer. Just looking for a starting point with that

 

[Doug_xx2]

no! No! NO! NOOOOOOOOOOO! We don't, and when we did - we always found that the mixes diminished in flavor after a few days week. The same thing happens with Sweetener (and it diminishes flavor substantially). Vinegar, lemon juic and sucralose/sweetener are showing to be the main reasons that so many folks have to use such high percentages!

This has been proven! However, folks don't take the time to read the thread (and so many people keep repeating the opposite, because the initial results are fine). From this thread: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/268760-diy-master-techniques-flavor-add-ons-em-vw-bw-mts-acv-ect-11.html

EM/Cotton Candy also diminishes flavors.

Folks may want to end up using these additives (of course), but when starting out DIYing -- using them without knowing their effects causes a LOT of frustration (not to mention 'waste of time', 'waste of products' and eventually inhaling far more chemicals than necessary).

is there anything to add sweetness without diminishing flavor then??

To be honest I would have read this thread but there is soooooooo much information that comes up sooooo many threads when you search for tpa tfa or any variant there of that I just couldn't slog through it all to find this thread. BTW it took me hours to find out what tfa and tpa meant.

 

[partyannimal]

is there anything to add sweetness without diminishing flavor then??

To be honest I would have read this thread but there is soooooooo much information that comes up sooooo many threads when you search for tpa tfa or any variant there of that I just couldn't slog through it all to find this thread. BTW it took me hours to find out what tfa and tpa meant.

Many of us use Sucralose drops or ezsweetz and they work well without having any negative affect on flavors.


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[partyannimal]

I have a question about TFA Graham Cracker, i have no idea what a Graham Cracker tastes like or even is...so i've made up a 5ml bottle to test, how long should i steep it before trying it out?

Like you, my friend said she always had the cereal and that was the closest in flavor to actual graham crackers.


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[Doug_xx2]

Many of us use Sucralose drops or ezsweetz and they work well without having any negative affect on flavors.


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Doesn't sucralose melt much like sugar coating coils and then turn into black carbon that tastes nasty when burnt off the coils?

 

[Blueser]

Marshmallow :~)