The Future of ProVape
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There's that "can be used" phrasing.
That sucks.As of July, the base model of ProVari will be going from $159.99 to $279.99 unless ProVape relocates.
If they don't relocate, all our ProVari's just gained a lot of resale value. It might be time for me to send in my V1 ProVari for the V2 chip upgrade while it still costs less than a new ProVari to do so.
Covers everything that has not been prescribed by a doctors prescription:
"Any electronic device that can be used to deliver nicotine or
other substances to the person inhaling from the device..."
Also states that IF the Federal Government ever recognizes the e-cigarette as a smoking cessation aid..... then it will no longer be taxed as a tobacco product.
Of course if that occurs, now you have a bigger issue with FDA regulating it as a pharmaceutical device which is in the long term even MORE scary...
Follow the money.....
"Any electronic device that can be used to deliver nicotine or
other substances to the person inhaling from the device..."
Also states that IF the Federal Government ever recognizes the e-cigarette as a smoking cessation aid..... then it will no longer be taxed as a tobacco product.
Of course if that occurs, now you have a bigger issue with FDA regulating it as a pharmaceutical device which is in the long term even MORE scary...
Follow the money.....
There's that "can be used" phrasing.
As of July, the base model of ProVari will be going from $159.99 to $279.99 unless ProVape relocates.
If they don't relocate, all our ProVari's just gained a lot of resale value. It might be time for me to send in my V1 ProVari for the V2 chip upgrade while it still costs less than a new ProVari to do so.
Putting in my order this morning doesn't seem so bad now. However it still can be fought, I believe. I am not a politician and I don't know if this has to go to the body, but it won in committee by the narrowest of margins (7/6) and ONLY after it was amended down to 75% from 95%
There is also some contention on what this means for the tax. The law makes NO mention of out of state sales. But the scary thing is what laws does Washington have on the books regarding online "tobacco sales". If they have indeed now placed equivalency on e-cigs as tobacco products, then ProVape may have just gotten their stores shutdown online, and may have to sell exclusively to distributors.
In any case. If your budget can afford it, it might be worth picking up one. If I destroy two perfectly good ProVari's then I don't deserve to own any more....
BTW...my offer still stands for ProVape to move down to Florida. We have our own fruits and nuts down here, but we can still vape freely instead of being vape-free
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I might be wrong here, but I believe in order for them to charge a sales tax on an item they have to have a PHYSICAL presence in the state. So if I live in Nevada, and ProVape is NOT PHYSICALLY in Nevada, they cannot charge me sales tax. It is the Nexus rule(I think that is what it's called).
However, if you DO live in Washington state then you will be required to pay the tax.
I know that each state interprets Nexus slightly differently, so it is up to the state to decide how it is enforced. But most states DO NOT make you pay their state's sales tax if you do not reside there. The vendor has to be physically in the state that you reside to be able to charge the tax.
This is only relevant if it is a tobacco/nicotine SALES tax that is being levied.
However, if you DO live in Washington state then you will be required to pay the tax.
I know that each state interprets Nexus slightly differently, so it is up to the state to decide how it is enforced. But most states DO NOT make you pay their state's sales tax if you do not reside there. The vendor has to be physically in the state that you reside to be able to charge the tax.
This is only relevant if it is a tobacco/nicotine SALES tax that is being levied.
What they need to do is change their name from ProVape to ProLite, and develop a "detachable" LED head that just so happens to use the commonly available 510 connector. The purpose of the LED head is to allow customers to choose and easily swap out custom LED heads.
And it has to be variable voltage so I can change the intensity of the light.
Then they can sell their expensive ProLite and ProLite Minis. With the following disclaimer of course:
"This product is not intended for the inhalation of nicotine or any other substance. Use of this product in this manner not only violates Washington State Law but may also void your warranty."
It would be expensive, but that light would be just as bright on the last press as it is on the first press. Lighting consistency.....that's what's important to me.....
And it has to be variable voltage so I can change the intensity of the light.
Then they can sell their expensive ProLite and ProLite Minis. With the following disclaimer of course:
"This product is not intended for the inhalation of nicotine or any other substance. Use of this product in this manner not only violates Washington State Law but may also void your warranty."
It would be expensive, but that light would be just as bright on the last press as it is on the first press. Lighting consistency.....that's what's important to me.....
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Here is a list of those who voted for and against it.
Majority Report: The substitute bill be substituted therefor and the substitute bill do pass
Signed by Representatives Carlyle,
Chair; Tharinger,
Vice Chair; Fitzgibbon,
Hansen,
Lytton,
Pollet, and
Springer.
Minority Report: Do not pass
Signed by Representatives Nealey,
Ranking Minority Member; Orcutt,
Assistant Ranking Minority Member; Condotta,
Reykdal,
Vick, and
Wilcox.
Majority Report: The substitute bill be substituted therefor and the substitute bill do pass
Signed by Representatives Carlyle,
Chair; Tharinger,
Vice Chair; Fitzgibbon,
Hansen,
Lytton,
Pollet, and
Springer.
Minority Report: Do not pass
Signed by Representatives Nealey,
Ranking Minority Member; Orcutt,
Assistant Ranking Minority Member; Condotta,
Reykdal,
Vick, and
Wilcox.
Was wondering how long it would take you call me out on that.....
Does it count if it's ONLY stock satin silver/red LED with a single battery and extension cap? Yeah, it does......
I noticed it right away when you said it in the other Washington/Provari thread but it was too off topic to post.
Yeah, but the 50 votes from dead people, illegals & vote tabulation software fraud sort of cancels mine out, and then some..
The people's representatives? Sure, maybe on paper..
"Elected" officials know who they work for, and it's certainly not the little guy
Just as Big Tobacco & Big Pharma write laws, there's nothing stopping Big Vape from getting in on the action, too.. I highly encourage it, actually
And I think it's reasonable to consider ProVape & MBV as US-based "Big Vape" at this stage of the game...
Besides, vape taxes are coming -- eventually..
Doesn't mean vapers & vape bizzes should roll over.. but we also shouldn't kid ourselves
I'm preparing for it.. Are you?
Yeah, but the 50 votes from dead people, illegals & vote tabulation software fraud sort of cancels mine out, and then some..
The people's representatives? Sure, maybe on paper..
"Elected" officials know who they work for, and it's certainly not the little guy
Just as Big Tobacco & Big Pharma write laws, there's nothing stopping Big Vape from getting in on the action, too.. I highly encourage it, actually
And I think it's reasonable to consider ProVape & MBV as US-based "Big Vape" at this stage of the game...
Besides, vape taxes are coming -- eventually..
Doesn't mean vapers & vape bizzes should roll over.. but we also shouldn't kid ourselves
I'm preparing for it.. Are you?
ProVape and MBV are hardly Big Vape. They pale in comparison to the Innokin and Kangers both is sales and valuation.
Now if Washington were looking to prevent the import of Chinese Vape gear and e-liquid, then I could see ProVape and MBV being all over that.
But THIS does nothing for them, and quite possibly will shut down their internet sales which constitute the vast majority of their sales. I have to drive 20 miles to get to the nearest vape shop in South Florida that handles the ProVari. I can get an MVP or Sigelei in countless number of shops down the street.
And although we need to prepare for vape taxes, I think we should also prepare to fight them.
I don't live in Washington. But if Florida passes similar laws, I will be the first in line challenging the constitutionality of the tax and will ask the government to show the "harm" that justifies the additional tax.
Which is something we should all be prepared to do. Washington can pass the 75% additional tax, but the voters can also use the proposition process and they can challenge the grounds of the additional tax in court.
Eventually the states will have to justify the tax on some sort of health risk, and they will be hard pressed to come up with a legal justification. Especially in a state that practically invented the coffee addiction with Starbucks.
Certainly there are some lawyers out there who vape who can chime in on the overall legality of this issue.
I just got an e-mail from the Washington Vapers Advocacy Network. Here's what it said in part.
"Even worse, an amendment has been introduced that would tax e-cigarettes by nicotine concentration. Washington Legislators are proposing a $28 tax on a 15 ml bottle of 2.4% nicotine juice.
If this amendment passes, a 30 ML bottle of 2.4% liquid would taxed at an OUTRAGEOUS $57.60. No, were not kidding. Its that bad."
"Even worse, an amendment has been introduced that would tax e-cigarettes by nicotine concentration. Washington Legislators are proposing a $28 tax on a 15 ml bottle of 2.4% nicotine juice.
If this amendment passes, a 30 ML bottle of 2.4% liquid would taxed at an OUTRAGEOUS $57.60. No, were not kidding. Its that bad."
Which is why I specified "US-based 'Big Vape'"..
Guessing the largest hardware & juice companies in the US, respectively.. Also just happen to be headquartered in the same state
And yup, they pale in comparision.. just as those Chinese companies you mentioned pale in comparison to Big Tobacco & Big Pharma
Which is exactly why I think these US vape companies need to band together in fights like these, for a larger, stronger & more powerful united front
Vape taxation is coming, matter of time before it finally busts through & snowballs out of control.. we can certainly try to stall/minimize the damage, but the money grab is just too large for governments to ignore.. they're addicted to that cash just like smokers & vapers can be addicted to nic
Villify & then tax.. it's been their plan the whole way
I wonder what they are taxing 0mg juice at? One, I can't see them being able to tax that juice at all, since it contains no nicotine. And if that is the case, then it would behoove them to sell "blank flavored liquid" and let the consumer be responsible for buying their own nic.
And good luck getting that nic base if they ever decide to restrict it or make it partially illegal in any way..
No online sales of it, and can only purchase it at a heavily-taxed rate at a limited-licensed B&M retail location, supplied only by Big Tobacco / Big Pharma?
Yeah, I'm all set with that...
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My biggest fear is that Provape will shut down.. I have 4 Provaris and they work fine now but eventually, being electronic, they will quit working. Then they'll become expensive paper weights. They being repairable and non disposable is a big reason (among others) that I invested so much in them. I don't know whether to dump them all in the classys (and buy more mechs) or buy a bunch more provaris. 
I've already got a stock pile in my freezer.. 4 500ml bottles of 48mg. I thought about buying more but I'm afraid it'll go bad before I get to it.
"0mg juice" is just PG, VG, and concentrated food flavorings.. you can get that at your local tractor supply and/or hobby lobby. It's getting the nic that I'm worried about.
(and yes I know I could have multi quoted but I didn't plan on responding to 3 different posts when I started)
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One of the problems is that these bills are top-> down movements. The majority of ppl have never seen a real ecig and probably wouldn't know if they'd been around one or not. Most could care less - except for a few that think they won't have to pay more property taxes to get their street fixed because the state will have more funds now. I think there might be a small segment that believe bogus harm claims but don't care enough about the subject to read anything more. Vaping is a non-issue with most ppl that don't smoke. This is coming from the top -> down.
I'm not sure whether this has passed the legislature or just the committee, but if it does become law, then I suspect we'll see duplicate bills being introduced in many states all at once. That's just the way it works. The bill will be prewritten, well funded and was successful. That's all most of them need (maybe a lunch or benefit too).
This should scare business'. I think a number of small shops believed it would come down to licensing / fees and be largely managable. This isn't. Some b&m's probably even thought restricting internet sales would be good for their business. Whatever, this and what's been happening in Calif. I hope will wake them up.
I'm not sure but I think both Calif and Wa are among the states that sold their tobacco settlement funds for a one time payment. They still owe on future cigarette sales and if sales drop (which it has) they could be left holding the bag. There's already been several states challenging the amount they owe and so far, they've lost. That puts states in the position of needing to keep their populations smoking = keeping the funds coming in from the settlement, in addition to excessive tobacco taxes.
Is it really wise to depend so heavily on taxes from a product that is a public health problem? That's plain stupid. Even ANTZ members have stated vaping 5 ingredients is better than smoking 4,000 unknown chemicals.
I still find it ironic that Wa legalized recreational use of a herb and then pulls this stunt. From the few passages I read earlier in this thread, it sounds almost like this bill could be extended to that same substance. I watched a CNBC documentary on Colorado and they were showing EGO's being used. How in the heck are they going to figure out which ones are being used for what?
And then taxing per ml? I hope I'm wrong, but wouldn't that be like taxing rum different from beer and then each one based on the percentage of alcohol they say they contained? Good luck with that enforcement nightmare.
I think we all realize nic is the weakest link. I've got some stockpiled but not enough. That doesn't cut it when I still have friends that smoke rather than vape. They are the ones who are really loosing out. I could vent on this topic forever.
The biggest problem is the average non-smoker isn't interested. That doesn't mean the fight can't be won.
My biggest fear is that Provape will shut down.. I have 4 Provaris and they work fine now but eventually, being electronic, they will quit working. Then they'll become expensive paper weights. They being repairable and non disposable is a big reason (among others) that I invested so much in them. I don't know whether to dump them all in the classys (and buy more mechs) or buy a bunch more provaris.
This, too, has been my concern for several months now. I had not seen anyone voice this until now, so I didn't bring it up. But in the back of my mind, I wondered...what if? What if this thing all falls apart and Provape ceases to exist. How will we get them repaired if necessary?
Not that I'm totally selfish in this, as it concerns me to see thriving and decent, quality businesses have to close their doors. But still, I have a vested interest in two Provaris that I would really hate to toss in the trash in the event of a hardware failure.
I have a bunch of other things I would really like to say (vent!), but I won't. I'll just go sulk in the corner now...
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