The future of vaping

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Fiamma

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Mindsets are cumulative, I think. We go along as children watching our parents and how they react to stuff and we store that away, we go to school watch how our peers react to stuff and store that away, we grow up more and have to start reacting to the world and all that stored information comes into play....for good or for bad. Some of us are more accepting of 'directions from on high' and others say 'you want me to do what'? We're all different in many degrees.

I've always been a questioner, a prove your point and I'll think about it type. I did a lot of reading and watching vids before I decided to take the vaping fork in the road after so many years of just loading up on nic and all those chemicals cause it helped me cope with stress and focus. I still read about vaping a lot on a daily basis.

In the back of my mind the FDA has always been a malignant presence. They are largely funded by both BT and BP. They are not totally funded by the government. They have an inordinate amount of power as an agency. They are out to preserve themselves as an agency come hell or high water as evidenced by the recent Spygate revelations.

Our elected officials are also largely beholden to BT and BP. The ways are greased for those two behemoths via campaign contributions and incessant lobbying of and perks to 'our' elected officials. The whole government appears to be corrupt. The electorate, on the other hand, seems to be largely apathetic, unwilling or unable to effect change via the voters booth.

The government, to preserve it's perks and ability to spend mega bucks entered into the tobacco master agreement which while funding the states also preserved BT for all time. The government does not want to do ANYTHING that will cost it tax receipts from BT's cancer sticks. Stop smoking (wink wink) while we tax you even further.

EDIT:

People are quitting cancer sticks. The effort to kill e cigs is proof positive of that fact. They are losing TAX MONEY with people quitting.

Their solution? Bang the drum of FEAR. E cigs are not 'proven safe'.

When they see that failing to stem the tide they turn to TAXING e cigs. Not just the nicotine, but EVERYTHING involved, like Hawaii tried, like MA tried recently.

Vapers don't let this happen. See my signature at the bottom of all my posts.

END EDIT

The FDA, to preserve the revolving door from the FDA to BP and the cushy jobs and salaries promised, does not want to do ANYTHING to endanger that relationship by saying "we screwed up and did bad research" or correct their website warning everyone off the one thing that could get them off cancer sticks for good. That would cost their benefactors big money, you see. No more useless NRT's, that business would collapse for BP. They make big money from NRT's. The other major blow to BP would be their hideously expensive drugs no longer being needed for long term smokers illnesses if there were no more long term smokers of cancer sticks. OMG people would get healthier, no one will buy our stuff !! They have to be laying in bed nights figuring out more ways to apply pressure to the FDA and the medical community to stop vaping in its' tracks.

Like a lot of people, before I started vaping I just 'went along' smoking my poison and ignoring what was going on behind doors number 1 and 2. Now I've seen what's behind door number 3 and it's vaping and being healthier, and I want that.

With all of the above in mind I did a few things that I thought might save my bacon from a shut down of the vaping industry as we know it to one tightly controlled by BT and BP via the FDA. I migrated to big battery PV's. They last a LONG time and I should always be able to buy batteries and battery chargers. I stocked up and am still stocking up on dripping atties and cartos, my two big consumables. I am learning how to DIY, and it's getting easier as I go down that road and learn how stuff works together. I'm already making the juice I vape most, and working on new ones. We will always be able to buy food flavorings, PG and VG. The only issue in doubt might be the nic, and that only lasts so long in the freezer. I'm down to 4mg nic now. I could probably go zero if I wanted to but they are proving that some nic in the body is a good thing for many, so I'm gonna keep it in mine.

They have largely forgotten the effects of Prohibition. A black market for nic would emerge if they ban the sale outright. I believe that all commercial nic now comes from China anyway. It would still come, albeit a different path perhaps.

I am not by nature an alarmist, but I do firmly believe in being prepared, and I am beginning to see the ghost writing on the wall. Put not your faith in big government, the nanny state, or the FDA. They are all for sale to the highest bidder.

JMHO, flame at will ;)
 
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Imperator

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I'm reading all of this with real shock and concern for our American cousins. Is it really that bad?! In the UK, they've started putting up signs advertising the sale of electronic cigarettes, juices, cartridges etc. i saw the first one in my town advertising as such just a few weeks ago and they've been sold in pharmacies for quite some time. There's some talk about getting them categorised as a genuine sanctioned nicotine replacement method. If that happens they could be prescribed by doctors/smoking nurses. It's really taking off here...everyone I speak to at least knows someone who vapes. I'm thankful that my country seems to be taking to them with a decent attitude (although there are still issues). So to hear all this is quite shocking to me. I have a lot of American friends I'm feeling for right now. But at the end of the day, if they do start banning this stuff, they'll find it hard to enforce with the internet. I have a feeling you'll be able to order stuff (or acquire via online friends) from the UK, among other places. Hell, if this comes down on you, I might do what I can personally to get nicotine to as many of you as I can for your homemade juices. Good luck!
 

JENerationX

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There is only one thing we can do, and far too few seem to want to, and that's act TOGETHER. No single vaper is going to be able to do it alone. We need to vape openly and publicly. We need to make advocates for vaping out of our family, friends, and coworkers who see our success. We need to educate our doctors about vaping.

We need to pay attention every single time there is a proposed ban, tax, or letter sent to a hotel to shut down a vape meet, and we ALL have to act. Every single one of us. I was asked the other day why I care about what MA does. I care because it takes vaping away from someone just like me.

I have a rebuildable, I can get kanthal wire and steel mesh. I can get batteries and chargers. I can learn to mix my own liquid. I'm an unstoppable vaper as far as what the government can do to me...... BUT none of us would have started if we couldn't get our hands on a commercially available kit. We need to fight for that no matter what our personal circumstances are, because in doing so, we are keeping the option open, and we are saving lives.

IF WE CAN'T UNITE....... they will slowly and surely take us down. They will regulate anything that isn't prefilled and made by BT. EVERYONE should be a member of CASAA. Everyone should at least make small periodic donations even if it's the cost of 1 pack of cigarettes a month. Alone, we are vulnerable, but if we consolidate and present a united, vocal, public presence, we may sway some opinions in our favor.
 

jb0nez

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How odd, I was about to come and post a thread about the exact same topic. BT sees that vapes represent a major threat to their industry, BT pays huge taxes to government, so they see it as a threat too.

Bad combo for our beloved hobby. If I weren't unemployed and could afford it I would start stocking up on e-juices now. Either the FDA will ban PVs as being unapproved medical devices or will cave under pressure from BT to regulate and tax the hell out of them, allowing only "approved" ones made by, of course, BT.

Does anyone know what the most recent FDA stance on the issue is?

Dip free for 3 months now thanks to my Epower! And saving a bundle of money and my teeth and gums as well. My lil Epower, with my assortment of delectable flavors, has completely eliminated my desire to chew nasty tobacco. I'm down to 6mg/ml, sometimes diluted with 0mg/ml, sometimes just vaping 0mg/ml entirely so I can get the flavor and satisfaction. I quit smoking analogs 7 years ago, started dipping 1 year ago, tried the nicorette and still got cravings and relapses, yet my PV completely holds me. I don't think it'd be too hard to to go to 3mg then 0 then offf; but my wife and I enjoy a tasty 0mg Apple Cinnamon as desert. Make no doubts, BT is threatened by this big time and will either shut it down or take over the market....
 

Tanya612

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I believe the U of K Dr. was told exactly what to say to keep her grants and funds in place and she played the perfect puppet. I have seen for myself how pv's have successfully helped change lives for the positive. I WISH with all my heart these had been available before my Mom died of lung cancer. I'm afraid too many ppl out there see Doctor and FDA and just blindly follow the blatantly incorrect information. There is no doubt the more widespread pv use becomes the harder the FDA and BT will fight to get their piece of the pie without care to the consumers. I view those who do use pv's as ambassadors who can share the correct information to those that will listen. If I could be at the KY meet this weekend I'd be there with bells on!

A side note: I'm a non-smoker who uses 0 nic to combat anxiety among other things and my therapist fully supports me.
 

Theken

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The problem, in my opinion, is the lack of a voice in this industry. We have a lot of amazing suppliers and some outstanding inventors but can you say who is the voice of the vaping industry? I talk to smokers that I pass and answer all questions from people asking "what the hell is that", happily. I know, for a fact, I have helped people stop smoking by recommending this as an alternative. If it is outlawed then I will be a criminal, plain and simply and I vow to NEVER purchase an e-cigarette manufactured by "big tobacco". The only way to hurt them is with our wallets, if you are still on their mailing list.. request to be removed, stop buying anything they are affiliated with. I agree that if it is banned we will just buy it illegally, it will be cheaper illegally than after taxation. Nicotine doesn't kill, the delivery kills. Nicotine is as dangerous as caffeine in the amounts that are introduced to our system, common sense and logic demand that: IF PEOPLE ARE INGESTING NICOTINE IN WAYS THAT WILL NOT KILL THEM why does out government fight it so hard?

I know that me, as 1 person, will not make a difference but I do all that I can. I called every elected official that represents the people in the area that I currently live, the ones that didn't answer got emails and letters sent. I told them that had e-cigarettes been available 10 years ago, 2 of the men in my family would still be alive and if I had not found "vaping" I would be certain to die just the same. Smoking related illnesses and disease has killed every male in my family tree for the last 120 years with the exception of 1 (story for another day).

In summary, local e-cigarette stores should evolve from a store front into a community, this community should contact their law makers, make noise and be heard. Contact businesses that have established "no vaping" rules and tell them why they are not getting your money
 

Fiamma

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I just remembered something I forgot to include in my first post in this thread.

Keep an eye on the American Legacy Foundation that keeps putting out this anti ecig rubbish. They are funded by Pfizer, one of the larger BP corps.

Most of the studies that have come out have been slanted, twisted and otherwise cherry picked by 'researchers' who are funded by BP and thus have major conflicts of interest. The choice is lose the money or toe the line BP slings out.

The KY parrot is singing for her grants/funding no doubt about it.

Most of these groups are pernicious liars whose only aim is to further their fees at the cost of their integrity, provided they still have any dregs of integrity left. We are dealing with two bad items, zealotry on the part of the ANTZ, including the ALA, ACS, CDC, who are largely funded by BP, and lack of integrity on the part of BP funded scientists.

Read Dr. Siegel's blog and become angry at what he digs up about these 'researchers' and 'studies'. Get mad. Join CASAA, support CASAA, get out there and expose the lie for all to see. http://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com/

If we as vapers don't hang together and fight for our CHOICE to be off cancer sticks, off ineffective NRT's, and be healthier they WILL divide and conquer and vaping as we have known it will radically change to the detriment of anyone who wishes in the future to make his/her CHOICE.

I think we are living right now in the Golden Age of vaping. The future, if they win, will be bleak indeed.
 

thinkingaboutit

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I personally am worried. I don't need regulation on something so simple. I don't need BT adding chemicals with FDA approval as a stabilizing agent or however they will twist the chemicals they will add to "approved" juice. I expect they will twist whatever they have to to taint things and make it harder to kick e-cigs if wanted.

long before they can ruin it for me I will have four or more PVs that take standard batteries and I DIY juice, so I just need a big nic order before the tsunami. If I stop vaping and still have supplies, I will PIF locally to keep someone else going.

My next vaping expense will be a monthly donation to CASAA. Even if I stop vaping, I will keep that expense.
 

Racehorse

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No government agency, that's for sure.

Big Corporate either. They actually scare me more.


As for the FDA, 95% of the food in grocery stores they say is okay, yet we have an epidemic of obesity and diabetes, etc.

I think everyone needs to make their own decisions about what they put into their bodies, and it'd be nice to know there is some org out there that can be relied upon to just tell us what the real research is, then we can make educated decision.

Instead, Big Corp is lying to us like they did about the 4,000 carcinogens in cigs, and the FDA is "bought" by big corp whether it be food industry or big tobacco!

All I want is information. That is increasingly difficult to come by. You look behind the curtain and you always find the "ties" to lobby groups and/or causes, whether you are choosing a quit smoking program or a political candidate.
 
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Racehorse

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As for worrying, I don't. I try to live in the moment. There are way too many things to worry about, things I have no control over.

Of note, however, I don't like being treated like a child. I live in a *dry* county. 80 miles to buy beer or alcohol. I don't even drink, but I sign EVERY petition against the dry county.
 

RedForeman

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I think the ongoing sniping of BP, BT, and anti-smoking affiliations will continue with no solid resolution. For now all they have is a foundation of fear. Largely due to the fact that vaping looks like smoking and there are no long term cases to look at, given the newness of it.

On the plus side is your non-smoking, non-vaping peers seeing how it is improving your health and well being. We're a minority that's a target for legislation that's "for our own good." The more people that understand and agree with what we're doing, even though they themselves do not partake, the fewer there are to point a finger and say "it's the same as smoking." So we become a minority surrounded by enough indifference that those trying to limit, tax, or regulate are kept in check.

A good correlation would be legislation of high fructose corn syrup. NYC passing an ordinance limiting soft drinks to 16oz so New Yorkers are less likely to get fat comes to mind. Doesn't stop them from getting their Big Gulp in NJ or Long Island. Right now, the majority of people agree that's a risk but are indifferent enough not to panic about it. Well, except for New Yorkers apparently. Same idea though. And that's on a proven health issue. You don't need to be an FDA scientist to know that pumping a lab animal with presweetened cereal or sugary soft drinks will make them larger and unhealthy. And there isn't public panic over it either, since many healthy people also enjoy those foods. The majority don't care and won't support bans, or other restrictive measures.

What will become the critical moment will be one of two things.

One likely possibility would be some credible health risk being identified without a doubt. I'm sure there is a lab full of Rhesus monkeys being flooded with nicotine laced vapor right now somewhere, with the hope they can be dissected to discover some sort of indisputable link between vapor and some sort of deadly, unnatural health condition that can only caused by inhaling vapor. It might be FDA or a Pfizer lab, but someone's certainly doing everything they can to prove a problem that doesn't exist yet. Just like the proverbial room full of monkeys on typewriters publishing the works of Shakespeare, eventually a link will be found. Brought to you by the same folks that discovered eating 50 lbs of saccharin each day might cause cancer.

The other possibility would be some crazy, unlikely injury or death related to the products we use. It might be a baby or pet chewing through a bottle of high-nic juice. Some maroon reaching for the chocolate syrup and squirting the bottle of 36 mg brown colored juice on their sundae. Even a deliberate attempt at poisoning. I'm talking "don't use near fire" warning on hairspray and "contents are hot" warning on coffee sort of crap. Eventually someone that should be eliminated from the gene pool anyway will do something to hurt themselves or others. That will become the broad brush used to paint a picture of danger and panic the public over something they know nothing about, nor care to.

When either of those things happen, it will be a function of credibility versus public awareness. At this time, I'd say awareness is too low to prevent bad things. As time goes by, less so.
 
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DC2

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For those of you reading this thread, this is what I really want you to hear...

We are in the middle of a war.
And that war is all about money, and lives.

Big Pharma has the money, and they own the FDA.
And they fund the anti-tobacco groups and the "non-profit" health organizations.

And so does the Master Settlement agreement, which disappears if people quit smoking.

Just read this, if you are willing to destroy you preconceived notions of right and wrong...
The New Corporate America Business Model

So whose lives are at stake?
Ours. And the lives of all those who are still smoking.

You think the American Lung Association wants to save your life?
Not if it means their funding dries up.

American Cancer Society?
Campaign for Tobacco Free Kids?
The Legacy Foundation?
Acton on Smoking and Health?

And we're not even getting into the "sin taxes" and what the government makes off smokers.

Yeah, if you think this isn't a war, you haven't done enough studying.

And when I started vaping, I didn't believe in conspiracies.
Sometimes I wish I still didn't.
 

AuBadge

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I think that with all the $$$ at their disposal, BT, BP, and the FDA have the capability to buy the propagandist messages they want to send to the public-at-large about ecigs or anything else they feel threatened by. They're obviously having little trouble finding shills to carry their messages, too. When price is no object, you can buy all the made-up "facts" you want.
 

DC2

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So long as they don't ban nicotine sales online, we'll be alright.
I totally agree that this is the big one.

This is the thing that can break us, and this is the thing they'll be gunning for.
And the scary thing is that the tobacco companies might be standing beside them in their efforts on this one.

Pre-filled cartomizers is what we'll get, if we keep silent and let them run over us.

Every vaper needs to be ready to make their voice heard.
The day will come, and there will be a call to action here and on all forums.
 

DC2

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just look at that BS doctor in kentucky she just jumped on the band wagon so people would know who she is she did not do her research and know people wbo care will know how stupid she is but in the end it will not matter cause the damage is already done...
I think people really need to understand something...

Ellen Hahn, that University of Kentucky researcher you are talking about, is unfortunately not even remotely stupid.
She is very well aware of ALL of the research that has been done on electronic cigarettes.

Bill Godshall himself has made sure she has received via email every single piece of news on the subject.
She knows the studies, and she knows the truth, make no mistake about it.

She is actually the epitome of what we are at war with.
And her words are carefully crafted to sway the uninformed.

She receives big money from Big Pharma.
And she is trying to serve her paymasters as best she can.

And to hell with smokers, and vapers, who are nothing more than speedbumps to her.
 

DC2

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Does anyone know what the most recent FDA stance on the issue is?
Oh yes, many of us who read the Electronic Cigarette News subforum are well aware....

The FDA has already tried to ban them but were stopped by the judicial branch...
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ads-everything-relevant-njoy-vs-fda-case.html

They are now forced to turn to tobacco legislation to accomplish their goals...
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...e-products-eliminate-many-most-companies.html

Their intentions have been made clear in their attempt to ban them...
And in their world-famous press release where they used misleading propaganda to try and turn the public against ecigs...
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-regarding-fda-press-release-7-22-repost.html

The problem is that the FDA is not concerned about public health.
They are far more concerned with serving their master, which is Big Pharma.

The FDA wants electronic cigarettes to go away, because that is what their master wants.
 

Kay1959

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WOW guys! I just got home, and I sure wish we had a LOVE instead of just a like button! You folks are AWESOME! I agree with just about everything that's been said here. Kudos to you especially Fiamma!;) I sent off an email before I had to leave, and it looks like the vapemeet in KY is still a go, but they think there might be protesters standing outside the doors. In a way this could be a good thing, if handled correctly. I agree that we need to ban together to fight this thing. I also think we need to be proactive about it. I'm a member of Hoosier Vapers....we are a small club. If you click on my signature, it'll take you to our Facebook site. If you aren't a Facebooker, you can read some of our stuff here.
Hoosier Vapers - Vaping along the crossroads of America
I think going around stomping out brush fires will have some impact, but being proactive and going to the public is also a good idea. We are in the initial stages of doing just such a thing. If you have a club you can join, please do so! If you don't start one! We had a vapemeet just last month and raised $568, which was all donated to CASAA! All the vendors who donated stuff for our raffles and 'spin the wheel' are listed as our sponsors. What a great group of venders we have here!

I also have a few APV's, glass tanks, a good stock of cartos, and I make my own juice also...Haven't gotten into the whole make your own atty thing yet...don't know if I will. I guess you could say I'm 'Planning for the worst, and hoping for the best'.
 
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