The future of vaping

[Kay1959]

Good deal Prometheus!

Here's something people might be interested in reading. There has now been a test done of the effects of inhaling passive vaper from ecigs!

http://www.ecigarettedirect.co.uk/ashtray-blog/2012/08/passive-vaping.html

 

[Salt&PePPer]

I find it funny that they want to do a Blanket Ban on eCigs, to some extent. But by that same token they allow Big tobacco to add all sorts of additional addictive chemicals to the mix.

An analog cigarette with all it's chemicals, natural and added, are FAR more addictive than just the juice alone.

 

[Imperator]

I joined too

Good good


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[Imperator]

I find it funny that they want to do a Blanket Ban on eCigs, to some extent. But by that same token they allow Big Tobacco to add all sorts of additional addictive chemicals to the mix.

An analog cigarette with all it's chemicals, natural and added, are FAR more addictive than just the juice alone.

Absolutely. My vaper friend and I were just discussing how we don't even get withdrawal symptoms off of 12mg juice. We just vape because we love it, not because we need it. It was never this way with analogues.


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[Fiamma]

I find it funny that they want to do a Blanket Ban on eCigs, to some extent. But by that same token they allow Big Tobacco to add all sorts of additional addictive chemicals to the mix.

An analog cigarette with all it's chemicals, natural and added, are FAR more addictive than just the Juice alone.

Big Tobacco funds the FDA and all the states with money from tobacco sales due to the Master Agreement. Governments everywhere in the country do not want to lose those mega bucks and with smokers quitting with the use of E Cigs they see it happening faster and faster. It's all about money.

Big Pharma funds the FDA and the alphabet soup NGO's like ACS, ALA, et al and TOO MANY of the so called researchers into smoking cessation. That conflict of interest in the researchers prompts them to toe the BP line of using ONLY BP NRT's and spreading the word that e cigs are not PROVEN safe, so that they keep getting funds. 400,000 people die a year in the US from smoking. I have not yet read of a single death due to vaping. These people bang the drum of FEAR and infect as many uninformed people as they can, to protect the profits for BP and their own funding.

Meanwhile BP execs lie awake at night fearing the loss of sales of their NRT's and their hideously expensive drugs required to treat long term smoker's diseases. We quit smoking using e cigs they lose mega bucks. It's all about money.

The further down the road we go the more lack of integrity we see in the government, research and now even the CDC. They have all been corrupted by big spending on the parts of BT and BP.

If we don't fight we stand to lose the existing cigarette smokers rights to choose how they want to quit in the future. We also stand to lose our own right to buy juice and hardware in the manner we are accustomed to doing.

 

[Iffy]

The further down the road we go the more lack of integrity we see in the government, research and now even the CDC.

While I totally agree with ya, the red highlighted phrase just shows that there are all too many clueless citizens that have been that way for all too long. "Vote for/contribute to me and I'll buy your vote with (name the entitlement)..."

Speak up and out, or just get use to cowering!!!

 

[synthros]

Oh yes, many of us who read the Electronic Cigarette News subforum are well aware....

The FDA has already tried to ban them but were stopped by the judicial branch...
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ads-everything-relevant-njoy-vs-fda-case.html


They are now forced to turn to tobacco legislation to accomplish their goals...
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...e-products-eliminate-many-most-companies.html

Their intentions have been made clear in their attempt to ban them...
And in their world-famous press release where they used misleading propaganda to try and turn the public against ecigs...
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-regarding-fda-press-release-7-22-repost.html

The problem is that the FDA is not concerned about public health.
They are far more concerned with serving their master, which is Big Pharma.

The FDA wants electronic cigarettes to go away, because that is what their master wants.

Fascinating thread. I am curious exactly how any of you think this might play out if (or when) the FDA makes its next move, something that seems highly likely. More just a matter of what exactly, how and when.
Concerning the "coming announcement" what I am wondering is do you think it's imminent or more likely a ways off?
Do you think it would be the kind of industry killing pentroke kind of like what happened to the "roll your own" stores. I only know the outlines but from what I understand that entire business ceased to exist virtually the second that that "order"? , was signed.
Do you think there would be a heads up period where we would at least know what they were intending to do, or would it be an immediate change?

I agree that we have to organize and act together as much as possible, I also believe I have a responsibility to take care of myself and future proof my ability to vape to the extent practical and affordable.

Are there any threads you could point to that deal with "vapeageddon" planning? It seems like I might want to be considering the way and quantities I might want to have stocked up now rather than waiting until its much more difficult or impossible. Even if it all worked out wonderfully in the end, it's not like it's likely to go to waste

I realize now that I need to do some work to get myself fully up to speed on these issues, as far as I am concerned its about protecting my own health in the long run, and hopefully also helping to protect the rights of others to decide how they wish now or in the future to protect their own health.

I really appreciate this thread, a real eye opener!

 

[whynes]

I also found where they are asking anyone who has had an ADVERSE reaction to ecigs to please contact them!

Please DO NOT contact them. It's already a matter of public record that the FDA
wants to BAN e-cigs completely. They've already lost an appeal in federal
court once, in 2010, to do just that.

NOTICE that they are ONLY asking for ADVERSE reactions. This is a strong clue.
They don't care about any POSITIVE opinions.

They will not read your response. They will just count it. If 4,000 vapers
type in a positive comment, the FDA will count it as 4,000 ADVERSE reactions,
and use it for political ammo.

 

[CDnerds]

Note the big question mark.

While I am ENcouraged because WE as vapers are looking to improve on what we already have. I know we've found out about plastic vs glass. We've looked into the ingredients of our juice and are doing what we can to improve on the quality and health aspect of that. I know there are people 'out there' that are trying to solve the dilema of an atty/tank. We are doing what we can to improve our devices...make them safer, last longer, improve the overall quality of the product. WE are concerned about the health aspects of what we are doing, and doing what we can to improve on that! And we are making great strides of improvements!!

THEN!

I'm very very DIScouraged because BIG TOBACCO is trying to get into the act! Lorillard has bought out Blu. Philip Morris is doing tests on their new electronic devices. Reynolds is coming out with their Vuse-ecig. Do you think THEY will give a rats crap about the health aspects of their devices? I think not! After all, aren't they the ones who put all those chemicals in analogs to keep us hooked on their product? Especially since Reynolds is tryiing to mimic their analogs in flavor! How would one possibly do that without adding atleast some of those YUMMY (being sarcastic) 4000 chemicals?

THEN!

There's our beloved FDA! (again being sarcastic) who want to place a blanket ban on ecigs, because they either have carcenogenic chemicals in them, or there isn't enough 'scientific study' to release for marketing. ONE test, done...how many years ago?....and on how many different juices?...from how many different companies? And as far as 'scientific study' is concerned, they say there isn't enough of it for people to be able to say that one can stop smoking using the ecig. Really??? How many of us have gone from smoking to vaping over the past few years?
Enough that Big Tobacco is feeling a crunch to start looking into their own devices! Where will the FDA stand on Big Tobacco's devices and juices? Where do you think?
While the FDA is trying to ban what we have now, which is FAR safer than analogs, I'm 99.9% sure they will embrace Big Tobaccos products.

I'm so scared that, what NOW is an excellent way to get off analogs, will some day be just as bad as analogs. I'm scared because I fear in the future, the only choice we will have is either an analog or a device from an analog maker.

But HOW do we fight this? Yes, I'm a big supporter of CASAA, and I will go to what city/state council meetings I can to help promote ecigs and prevent bans, but somehow I don't think this will be enough, because we aren't as big as them.


Is there ANYONE out there that cares about US as human beings???

Couple things.. it would be impossible to "blanket ban" anything dealing with e-cigs it has come to far. There are literally millions of e-cig parts in circulation. It would be a ban on paper, much like Canada.

Few reasons why..

VG/PG is legal and is used in a ton of food products and cosmetics.
Batteries are batteries - they will never be banned.
Most solid tube mods will last forever
Most rebuildable atomizers will last forever
Kanathal Wire will never be banned
Wicks will never be banned

ECF will be here and we will just sell to one another

Nicotine can be extracted from any member of the Nightshade family. This includes eggplants and tomatoes. Yes it would take much more to do it, but it can be done. Nicotine extraction will continue.

Very good chance China would still ship their nic to the USA as they do with Canada.

People can buy hard drugs with ease - I'm not that worried about nicotine.

 

[whynes]

You are 100% correct. Well stated. But what really bothers me is all the vapers who come on here and state that vaping is the same as smoking <snip> CASAA and take an active interest in protecting the right to vape.

Vaping is very clearly different than smoking.

I think the point is that allowing the government to take rights
away from smokers makes it all that much easier to take away
the rights of vapers.

Every vaper should ABSOLUTELY join CASAA. But that doesn't
mean you can't support your fellow citizens in keeping their
rights too.

It's not an either/or choice. There's no reason you can't or
shouldn't do both. And there's plenty of self-interested reasons
to do both.

<SOAPBOX>

It might not be obvious, but making it harder for the government
to oppress smokers makes it harder for them to oppress us, too.

The politicians want us all splintered into as many, small,
bickering groups as they can divide us up into.

Anyone you can find common ground with: smokers, vapers,
cheeseburger eaters, big gulp drinkers, anything that puts
your voice into a larger group, will help tell the government
that you don't need a replacement for mom and dad in the
legislature.

</SOAPBOX>

 

[whynes]

STHWEET.
I think it may be worth getting in the FDA's face about this. Just got to find the right way to do it.

The president appoints the leadership of the FDA.

From the top down, the current FDA leadership
are militant anti-nicotine prohibitionists who
make public comments contradicting research
that they have already been made aware of.

There's no guaruntee that a different president would
appoint leadership with a different bias, but it's certainly
obvious, to anyone who's watching, what the current
leadership will do if left in place.

Just saying

 

[Vinv]

The problem is that it's fun and can totally replace cigs. the big companies wont have that , eventually the reality will change. I bet they would become illegal like everything else fun and not allways harmful .. hick , weed only cures cancer. no big deal.

 

[whynes]

w..d only cures cancer. no big deal.

I think it's against this forum's TOS to mention the 'w' word here.
Might want to edit that a little bit

But back to your point. We know that's not true, because
if it did cure cancer, Big Pharma would have found a way
to stop the FDA from allowing it to ever be used that way.

Chemo and radiation are just too big of a money maker.
Other promising cancer cures are tied up in endless
FDA approval loops right now, as I'm sure that would
have been too.

Note the absence of a smiley on that last sentence.
It's so unreal it could be mistaken as an attempt at
sarcasm. I assure you, it wasn't.

 

[DC2]

Do you think there would be a heads up period where we would at least know what they were intending to do, or would it be an immediate change?

There will definitely be a heads up.

First the FDA has to announce their intentions to propose the "deeming" regulations.
Then there will be a period of public comment.

Then theoretically they will review the public comments...
And then they will issue the final regulation.

 

[wv2win]

There will definitely be a heads up.

First the FDA has to announce their intentions to propose the "deeming" regulations.
Then there will be a period of public comment.

Then theoretically they will review the public comments...
And then they will issue the final regulation.

So well put, DC. "theoretically" being the key word.

 

[Kremppie]

I posted my concern on this subject as a question when I first joined this forum. I don't think any of us know what is going to happen. I also care about the business that is supporting their families from the sales of all the supplies, both on-line and stores. I think it is best to learn all we can on how to make our own "stuff", and stock up on what we can.

 

[whynes]

I don't think any of us know what is going to happen.

Were it not for the benefit of history, I would have to agree.

However, it's a different story when you've already caught someone
red-handed trying to break into your house to steal your stuff. If you
see them hiding in the bushes when you come home from work again,
it's probably time to call the police.

As I said earlier, the FDA's intention to take e-cigarettes off the table,
entirely, is a matter of public record. There really shouldn't
be any doubt or debate about that.

Just Google "fda files new appeal on e-cigarettes" and read the first
link that comes up. Then do a little research to find out what "regulate
<fill in the blank> as a drug delivery device" would really mean to the
e-cig business. It would defacto eliminate that as a safer alternative to
smoking for decades, and perhaps forever.

This all happened after the FDA seized products in an illegal attempt
to remove them from the market.

The only reason you still enjoy the freedom to vape is because
a foreign e-cig company had the funding and the will to do battle with the
FDA in court, and prevailed. Were it not for that foreign company (NJOY),
this would have been a settled issue by 2010, and many of us would be
smokers, still, as a consequence.

In the mid '80s there was a very similar device marketed which, instead of
vapor, allowed you to inhale a little puff of nicotine powder. The FDA pulled
the exact same stunt, and that "drug-delivery device" has been "disappeared"
for over 30 years. It remains a non-existent product to this day.

It is not at all far-fetched to suggest the FDA will continue past efforts to
impose a total ban until they achieve it; either in fact, or in effect. They
have a far better source of funding--which would be 'We The People'--than
any who might oppose them.

There is more than enough history to assess what's likely to happen next if
we just sit by and let it happen.

 

[mwa102464]

Let's all be careful here, one of the sleaziest tactics the Govt and local politicians use is when you see this =

First the FDA has to announce their intentions to propose the "deeming" regulations.Then there will be a period of public comment.

The sleazy first tactic many times is they set a date, then they know that the masses are going to show up for it to speak publicly against it,, so the day of they cancel do to lack of quorum. Then they set a new date hoping many don't show the 2nd time. Just saying , I wouldnt be surprised if they do something like this, or something else trying to get less people to show up to speak. If the vaping community was on top of this 5000 people or more would show up to speak and show are masses. Some may disagree but a march on this date they plan to do this wouldn't be a bad idea.

 

[Kay1959]

Is Lorillard going to buy Johnson Creek? Read here......

Johnson Creek Closes Affiliate Program -- Up for Sale? - eCig One

It would make sense, since they bought out Blu, that the next acquisition would be a place where they can make their own flavors, and maybe some other 'stuff' thrown in there.

 

[Fiamma]

I'm at a real disadvantage when it comes to these mini e cigs. I never used one but have heard that the marketing is not truthful when it comes to equating cartridges with the number of cigarettes they are supposed to be able to replace.

I took a look on the net at their home site and looked at what they list in the juice Johnson Creek makes 'tailor made for Blu cigs'. No PG. Looks like an all VG mix with distilled water, nic, flavoring and citric acid. So maybe that exact juice isn't sold to the rest of us, no real way of knowing.

I expressed my reservations about Lorillard buying Blu but elsewhere (not on ECF) the week it was announced. Even so I had hopes that the CEO who is known to like Snus would be favorable to continued e cig development and sales rather than just continue the small stuff they make in its present format.

I would not be at all surprised if they bought out Johnson, but the fact of Johnson closing the affiliate program may not be indicative of that. Perhaps with the marketing blitz that has started promoting Blu in a major way Johnson feels it needs to be able to make more Blu cartridges than it currently does, while continuing to sell its other products on its own site along with its own e cigs. Perhaps closing the affiliate program is a move in that direction. Time will tell.

Seeing no changes in Blu since that acquisition I still have my reservations about the intent of Lorillard with respect to Blu. One of my assumptions at the time was that Lorillard would try to buy Johnson to secure its own juice making facility as Lorillard would be much better served with an operation already in place with experienced lab techniques than trying to reinvent the wheel.

My reservations about this whole thing centered on Lorillard and the FDA and the Congress. They have very deep pockets and a crap ton of influence in both places. Their flagship tobacco cigarette, Newport, has seen slumping sales numbers. They need to replace that revenue and it would be in their enlightened self interest to 'help' the FDA in the preparation of their 'deeming regulations' to cement their product structure in the regulations. Mini size, cartridges only, prefilled, and no others allowed comes to mind. I had not thought at that time about any 'additional additives' to the juice, and Kay's mention of that jolted me. That is a most unpleasant thought.

There is not much chance of anyone on the outside finding out what is going on on the inside of Blu. The way these corporations have always done business with the FDA and the Congress is behind closed doors with no public view, no transparency, with the population taking the brunt of the changes. That holds true with Big Pharma as well.

The public finds out well after the fact when the taxes are raised, the regulations are published, and their freedom of choice further constrained. Along with that go the price increases for everything.

I wish I felt better about this whole thing but I can't seem to do that.

I'm going to continue stockpiling my consumables and prepare for the worst while I earnestly hope for the best outcome.