The impatient newbie strikes again...

[Tona Aspsusa]

Great post, thank you.

Just a small quibble:

If a sophisticated (recirculating) lab method was used for the extraction, using only 10ml of solvent - or if the solvent could be reduced to a volume of 10ml without losing any nicotine content - then the strength would be 6.9mg/ml or 7%.

6.9ml/ml wouldn't be 7%, it would be 0.7%.

The nic I use is 36mg/ml, which is 3.6%, 100mg/ml is 10% and so on.

 

[rolygate]

Thanks - fixed the decimal point

 

[Tona Aspsusa]

Time for a small update I think:

I have detailed my travails with my "Impro" blend [url="http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/261427-finetuning-my-next-blend.html]here[/url].

But I also discovered something interesting yesterday:
While thinking about what to do with that juice/recipe, I topped up my carto with the dilution (about 16% extract, no added nic) of my first extraction.
And there is a definite difference between that and my second extraction. While the second one has much more flavour and "body", that first one has "something". Something very, very nice.

So I am wondering about future extractions. That first one was a small amount of tobacco in 20ml PGA, 10ml DW and 2 ml VG. The second one was loads more tobacco in 10ml PGA, 10ml DW and 20ml PG.
The question becomes, what in the first extraction managed to get me that "very very nice"? The alcohol? The small amount of VG?

I guess I should do a side-by-side with one PGA-dominated and one VG-dominated...

 

[Tona Aspsusa]

[I have progressed in my experiments in extraction, see this thread for Extractions Nr 3-7 (pics included, different mediums give really different colours), and here for a really weird conundrum I encountered - all guesses, speculations and thoughts desperately welcomed on that one.]

As I am such an impatient noob, I actually went ahead and fiddled with extractions and stuff before I had even tried such a classic as Tobacco Absolute in 10%EM.

Now I have. A few weeks ago I mixed up a minute amount of TA in 5 milliliters of 10%EM-in-PG (first dissolving the TA in about half a ml PGA), but didn't get around to testing it until yesterday. I put 3 drops (largish, so maybe 0.1-0.12 ml?) of this EM-TA mix into ~4ml PG @ 15mg/ml. Shook it, let it stand in a very warm place for a few hours. Tasted it briefly and discovered I am insanely sensitive to the taste of EM.

So why I am posting about this rather commonplace blend here?
Today as I am sampling it some more, mostly concerned about what to do about that sugary taste of EM (which frakking shouldn't be there if I were a normal person), but sort of searching for that TA to get some idea about how to maybe use it in the future, it hits me:

This TA-mix "feels" or "tastes" almost exactly like my extraction nr2!

(The one with PG, PGA and DW, the one that smelled so fabulously of dried fruit.)
But then there's a sugary aftertaste from the EM :-( .

It's precisely that same "heavy", "dry" quality - I think I somewhere likened my extraction nr2 to how a pipe smells vs how it tastes when you actually smoke it; that kind of dry/smoke/vapour (sic!) "taste" that is more a feel than a taste - if it were a colour I would call it semi-opaque gray. A sort of base-note if you will.

Now, it may be that the TA I have is absolute dregs and no good at all*, but I much prefer to think that at least one of my extractions were really top-notch tobacco-y.


(It is this (link should go to Google translate of the product page) from the Polish supplier I happened to stumble on when I was researching vaping & DIY - haven't yet found another EU-source that is comparable in price when it comes to nic, FA-tobaccos and bottles)

 

[KEITH97M3]

Tona,

I have also been looking into making my own extract using camel snus that I have been soaking in VG for over a year now. I just tossed the entire tin contents into a glass bottle, covered it with VG and heated it up in a pot filled with hot water(double boiler) which I do once every 2 months. I will take some pics for you to show how it looks but the trouble I am having is the added sodium which is already in the snus that I cannot seem to get rid of. When I tested a sample, it was almost like vaping a salty tobacco juice but if not for that, the flavor was pretty good.

Anyways, I will be back in a few days to let you know how it went. If you can figure out a way to get rid of the sodium, please let me know.

 

[pinellaspete]

Wow Tona, when you start a new hobby you just jump right in with both feet!

I have been busy working with the acids from the vinegar thread. I think I have a pretty good handle on how they work now and how they effect the flavor when added to my juice. So now on to my next project...Extractions!

And who do I find over here? You are already doing your own extractions. Good for you!

I have already done a bit of research on extractions. I think quite a few of the top shelf vendors are using some type of extraction in their juice. It seems that most of these are the newer vendors, the extraction process wasn't really around when vaping became popular just a few short years ago. I believe the old line vendors aren't using extractions in their juice. Their recipes were formulated before extractions became popular. I agree with you that adding an extraction to your juice DOES add something special to a juice that is impossible to replicate just using flavors. It is probably the minor alkaloids that are missing from the pure nicotine.

If you read through most of the extraction threads, people seem to have come to the conclusion that VG works best in the extraction process. I tend to agree at this point but haven't really even tried my own extractions yet.

Here is something interesting that I copied from Wikipedia's article on Glycerol (VG):

Botanical extracts

When utilized in 'tincture' method extractions, specifically as a 10% solution, glycerol prevents tannins from precipitating in ethanol extracts of plants (tinctures). It is also used as a substitute for ethanol as a solvent in preparing herbal extractions. It is less extractive when utilized in tincture methodology and is approximately 30% more slowly absorbed by the body resulting in a much lower glycemic load. Fluid extract manufacturers often extract herbs in hot water before adding glycerin to make glycerites.[8][9]

When used as a primary true alcohol-free (e.g. no alcohol (i.e. ethanol) ever being used) botanical extraction solvent in innovative non-tincture based 'dynamic' methodologies, glycerol has been shown, both in literature and through extraction applications, to possess a high degree of extractive versatility for botanicals including removal of numerous constituents and complex compounds, with an extractive power that can rival that of alcohol or water/alcohol solutions. That glycerol possess such high extractive power assumes that glycerol, with its tri-atomic structure, is utilized with dynamic methodologies as opposed to standard passive 'tincturing' methodologies that are better suited to alcohol's di-atomic structure. Glycerol possesses the intrinsic property of not denaturing or rendering a botanical's constituents inert. Glycerol is a stable preserving agent for botanical extracts that, when utilized in proper concentrations in an extraction solvent base, does not allow inverting or REDOX of a finished extract's constituents over several years. Both glycerol and ethanol are viable preserving agents. Glycerol is bacteriostatic in its action, and ethanol is bactericidal in its action.[10][11][12]

I think VG used as an extraction medium will not destroy as much of the plant matter as alcohol would. What we are trying to do is extract the alkaloids without destroying or extracting other elements of the tobacco leaf that might not taste as good (The tannins.) when added to our juice.

I think that perhaps there are TWO additives that we might need to add to our juices and they are derived by different processes.

They are:

Tobacco Extraction

Tobacco Essence

Let's work on the extraction process first as the essence process may be much more difficult.

It looks as if I have to make a trip to the cigar store tomorrow. Any ideas on what type of cigar I need to buy? I never really smoked cigars before. Guess I'll be making friends with the owner of my local cigar store tomorrow!

Pete

 

[pinellaspete]

Tona,

Just a tip if I may...

I don't use any EM in my TA dilution. I just dilute 2 drops of Tobacco Absolute into 10ml of PG. You don't need to add the Ethyl Maltol to the mixture at that point. I just add EM to each juice as I mix them as needed.

Good luck!

Pete

 

[Tona Aspsusa]

Hi Pete!

If you read through most of the extraction threads, people seem to have come to the conclusion that VG works best in the extraction process. I tend to agree at this point but haven't really even tried my own extractions yet.

Very interesting about VG, thanks (I totally missed that when I first read up on Glycerol - extractions weren't really on my radar then).

I have a suspicion that with tobacco *water* might be sort of important too - take a look at my pictures in another thread here, plain VG and plain PGA both yielded a yellow liquid, but 85% VG (Aq. Glyr), 60% alcohol and 100% water all gave a reddish liquid.
(I haven't yet tasted anything from that extraction, I'll post when I do.)

So far of the two extractions I have tasted (in various dilutions and blends), the PG one had more taste (it was also stronger in tobacco/solvent), but the PGA/water/VG has "something", though not much taste.

I was just thinking about you yesterday when I decided to mix myself an "anti- EM" plain mix*. I made it far too weak (1,5ml each of extracts 1 and 2, 1,5ml each of Aq. Glyr and PG, and about 3ml of PG with nic (getting about 6-7mg/ml), should have omitted the extra PG), didn't really taste like anything. Didn't vape that nice either (I'm all out of good VG, must order more).
BUT then I added 4 drops of vinegar (to about 8ml liquid, so quite a hefty dose) and let it stand about an hour with the top partly off.
And now it has at least *some* taste, much much better. I think I will be adding some more extract to it though.

One interesting thing that I noticed, that wasn't apparent before when my extracts were fresher, is that I get a nice hint-or-a-bit-more of M-type, ie tabanone, in it now. I hadn't noticed it in my previous mixes with my extracts, because I had added a tiny amount of M-type to them, but when they were fresh and just mixed with PG/VG it definitely wasn't a noticeable taste/smell in them.


*Even though I came to the conclusion that ethyl maltol so isn't my thing (sugary even at very low concentrations, irritates my throat) I have been vaping a few blends I did with just a smidgen of it. Don't want to let it go to waste! Yesterday I just got tired of that taste (which I suspect is also enhanced by the fact that I'm out of VG and am vaping almost straight PG), and hence I needed to make an "anti-EM" blend.

 

[pinellaspete]

Wow! Wow! Wow!

Here we go again!

You guys are NOT going to believe this!

You remember back on the vinegar thread when I mentioned that I tasted a vinegar taste in a top shelf juice that disappeared after a few days?

That was the reason I started the vinegar thread in the first place.

Well...

I copied this from the Tincture article in Wikipedia:

Herbal tinctures do not always use ethanol as a solvent, though this is the most frequent. Other solvents include vinegar, glycerol, ether and propylene glycol, not all of which are used for internal consumption. However, where a raw solvent's pH factor is a sole consideration, the advantage of ethanol is that being close to neutral pH, it is a good compromise as a passive used solvent of both acidic and alkaline constituents where a tincturing methodology is concerned. Glycerine, when utilized in a tincture methodology's passive (i.e. 'non-critical') manner, is a poorer solvent generally, and vinegar, being acidic, is a better solvent of alkaloids but a poorer solvent of acids, which would result in the alkaloids being more present in the preparation than otherwise.

Perhaps we should try a bit of vinegar with our VG, or maybe just vinegar?

It is the alkaloids we are after.

Darn, I have to get to the cigar store tomorrow!

Pete

 

[Tona Aspsusa]

I copied this from the Tincture article in Wikipedia:

Herbal tinctures do not always use ethanol as a solvent, though this is the most frequent. Other solvents include vinegar, glycerol, ether and propylene glycol, not all of which are used for internal consumption. However, where a raw solvent's pH factor is a sole consideration, the advantage of ethanol is that being close to neutral pH, it is a good compromise as a passive used solvent of both acidic and alkaline constituents where a tincturing methodology is concerned. Glycerine, when utilized in a tincture methodology's passive (i.e. 'non-critical') manner, is a poorer solvent generally, and vinegar, being acidic, is a better solvent of alkaloids but a poorer solvent of acids, which would result in the alkaloids being more present in the preparation than otherwise.

Perhaps we should try a bit of vinegar with our VG, or maybe just vinegar?

Hmm, very interesting. In various old threads on extracting I've seen people mention that they at some point used a few fizzy tablets of vitamin C, but never really explaining why. (I would absolutely not use THAT - all kinds of "crap" in those, for our purposes - I sort of got the impression that people were using this instead of plain citric acid, NOT the same thing at all.)

Soaking tobacco in plain vinegar or citric acid might be interesting, but I'm not sure how to proceed after that. The acidity would need to be neutralised or diluted somehow, and I don't think just diluting it would be enough.
I don't think I'll be experimenting with this without at least some PH-paper, and right now I just can't afford to get yet another "toy" (pH-paper in itself isn't expensive, it's just that the smallest pack I've found locally costs 25+ euros).

I'm glad you are turning your attention to this, Pete. I'll be looking forward to reading about your experiments.

You asked about what tobacco to get - as you can see in this thread, I asked exactly the same question...
I have no idea, I just used what I happened to have at home.
The only thing I would probably look out for is to choose a tobacco with no (or as little as possible) added flavourings. So RYO, pipe-tobacco, cigars or cigarillos that don't advertize "honey" or "whiskey" or "coffee" or whatever aromas.

As an aside: I really need to find myself some WTA-ish thing that works. I'm now very ready to again try to cut down on the analogs, but I need something extra in the liquid to do that - my organism really didn't like it when I pretty abruptly went from 25+ to <7 a day, and after talking to my doc I upped the analogs to around 10/day. But vaping is better, tastes nicer, feels nicer.
It is so weird that after smoking so much for so long I actually have to remember to smoke enough analogs - but my special edition nervous system seems to need a very gradual weaning from WTAs. Weirdly enough for such a heavy smoker the amount of nicotine I like in my liquids is really low, 8-15 mg/ml, and I frequently top-up with no-nic.

 

[pinellaspete]

I stopped using analogs about 3 weeks after I started vaping. But I do know that I'm missing something from vaping that I was getting from using analogs. I have several friends at work that vape. I am the only one that quit the analog habit completely. My friends still use some analogs every day. Perhaps we can find the secret ingredient to help everyone quit the analog habit forever!

Okay....

Anybody up to try this?

This sounds promising to me.

Make a Glycerite

Glycerites (tinctures/extracts made with glycerine) are syrupy liquids that provide an alcohol-free alternative to the more popular alcohol tincture. Glycerine has a sweet taste but doesn't affect sugar levels. It is preferred by children over an alcohol or vinegar tincture. We normally mix our glycerites with alcohol tinctures to reduce the sweetness. Some have used honey or even sugar syrup in the place of glycerine but the taste is less than desirable!

As with all remedies, directions for making glycerites vary from one book to another. The ABC Herbal includes simmering the herbs in the glycerine and water for 2-3 hours as a part of the instructions. Though we simmer ours for longer, we consider this a good method since it worked for the author and many others. We make ours by filling a jar 1/3-1/2 full of herbs (1/2 full makes the brew stronger). Add just enough hot water to get the herbs wet and fill the jar to about 1/2 inch from the top with glycerine. After closing the jar tightly, place it in a crock-pot with a small towel underneath to keep the jar from breaking. Fill the crock-pot with water up to the top of the jar (not touching the lid), and leave it on the lowest setting for 3 days, keeping the glycerine hot but not boiling, and add water as necessary.

After about 3 days, carefully strain the hot and sticky herbal mixture through a cheesecloth into a glass container. Squeeze the herbs a bit, pour a small amount of boiling water over them, and then discard them. Close tightly and label the glycerite tincture. We have kept and used our tinctures for several years.

By the way, if your crock-pot gets too hot on the lowest setting, the herbs will smell like they are cooking and turn dark and strong smelling within 24 hours. This will not ruin the glycerite, but it does speed up the process and may not be quite as effective as a slow heat. We have a crock-pot that gets too hot, so after about 42 hours, we go ahead and strained the mixture, and it is just fine. You can also water bathe the herb/glycerine mixture by placing the closed jar in hot water on the stove for 3 days. The idea is to break down the herbs so that the properties are released into the glycerine. You have succeeded when the mixture becomes dark and strong smelling.

Boy, I bet the house would smell like a tobacco shop after this!

Notice the bold vinegar again? Hmmmm....Looks like I might need to do a little more research but this does seem promising.

It's a good thing I moved to Florida, I just might try this on the patio out back.

Pete

 

[pinellaspete]

Okay...I did some research today.

People have been making these "tinctures" for a very long time, for at least hundreds and perhaps thousands of years. They traditionally have been made using either an alcohol/water mixture or by using vinegar. VG is rather new to the scene and has only become popular in the last ten or twenty years. When you use vegetable glycerin in the process you are making what is called a GLYCERITE.

These processes have been thoroughly documented in medical journals and the chemistry of tinctures is proven to contain most of the same chemicals of the plant material that was used in the tincture making process. You can make a tincture from almost any type of plant material. (Including roots.)

There are several ways people administer these tinctures once they are made. They ingest them by swallowing a teaspoon full of the extract. They use droppers to apply drops under their tongue. (The tincture supposedly enters the bloodstream rather quickly using this method.) They mix a teaspoon of the tincture in water or other liquid and then drink it. Sometimes they use it as a salve and rub it on their skin or lips.

To perform the alcohol/water method it is quite straightforward. Use 100 proof liquor. It can be vodka, rum, gin or whatever. 100 proof liquor is 50% alcohol and 50% water the recommended alcohol/water ratio right out of the bottle! Weigh your plant material and put into a glass jar. Add five times as much liquor by weight as your plant material weighed. Store in a cool dry place and shake every day for the first 2 weeks. Strain the plant material from the liquid. Store the liquid in a glass jar in a cool dark place. Use as necessary.

The vinegar method is the same as the alcohol/water method, just substitute vinegar for the liquor. Vinegar is much better at removing alkaloids from plant material than either of the other 2 methods.

Making a glycerite is just slightly more complex. You use the same ratios of plant weight to liquid weight. (1 part plant, 5 parts liquid.) You use a ratio of VG to water that seems NOT to be carved in stone yet. You do need to keep the VG ratio above 70% to have your finished products shelf life to be several years. The water is used to boost the solvent capabilities of the VG. A properly make glycerite is MUCH better that the alcohol/water or vinegar methods. The alcohol destroys some of the plant matter and you usually end up with impurities that are undesirable in an extract. A properly executed glycerite transfers most of the plant properties into the extraction without destroying the cell walls or ruining some of the subtle elements of the plant material. After you have the plant material, VG and water in a sealed glass bottle you need to heat the bottle in slowly boiling hot water. The time length of this boiling process is also NOT written in stone yet. Most recommendations seem to be from 2 to 3 hours all the way up to several days like my post from above. There are people in California that have the proper documentation to shop in those "special" stores that are making glycerites from the discarded parts of their plant material. They do the "Crock Pot" method and boil their glycerites for at least 8 hours and perhaps as long as overnight with good results. It does a good job in removing the alkaloids found in their plants.

This information is found all over the internet. There are probably hundreds of websites that sell tinctures. Some of them even claim to "Start our tinctures on the night of a full moon, to keep our manufacturing processes in time with mother nature." (I kid you not! I really read that today!)

Okay...That's most of the research I did today, but I've been a busy boy.

Stopped at the tobacco shop and bought some supplies. Set-up my experiment.

This post has gotten way too long! I'm taking a break for a few minutes. I'll be back to explain what I have cooking in the kitchen.

Any thoughts or questions?

Pete

 

[pinellaspete]

I stopped in at my local cigar store yesterday. I talked to the manager and explained that I didn't know much about cigars but would like to purchase 1 mild cigar and 1 with more flavor. I told him perhaps something that seems to be popular. So I purchased 2 cigars for about $6.50 USD each.

I set-up my expierament this way:

I wanted to try 3 slightly different versions of the VG mix to see which one works best.

I cut 3 one inch long pieces from the mild cigar.I coarsley chopped each piece and inserted this chopped mixture into a baby food bottle.

To each bottle with the chopped tobacco I added 1 of the following 3 mixes:

4ml Apple Cider Vinegar - 6ml Water - 80ml Vegetable Glycerin

10ml Water - 80ml Vegetable Glycerin

90ml Vegetable Glycerin

I capped each bottle tightly and put them into my Crock Pot with a folded wash cloth underneath them. I then filled the Crock Pot with water to a level just under the bottle caps.

I turned on the Crock Pot to the "low" setting. After about 5 hours it seemed like the water was almost to boiling temperature but it was bedtime and I didn't want that water to boil while I was sleeping. I turned the Crock Pot temperature control to the "warm" setting and went to bed. When I awoke this morning I turned it back up to the "low" setting. It has now been cooking away for about a total of 12 hours.

There is absolutely no smell from this at all, probably because the tobacco is in tightly sealed bottles.

When I looked at the extraction this morning it was very difficult to see the actual liquid color. I couldn't tell if I was seeing liquid or tobacco. The tobacco seemed to have expanded so I couldn't actually see the color of the liquid by itself.

Pete

 

[pinellaspete]

Hurray!!! It worked!

I couldn't wait any longer. I turned the Crock Pot off at about 6PM and let it cool a bit. The extracts had been cooking for about 22 hours at that point. I then strained the tobacco extract from each of the 3 bottles and re-bottled them.

The color of the extract is like black coffee, only it is not as translucent as coffee. It smells somewhat tobaccoey, but it is by no means overpowering.

I put 1ml of the VG/Water extraction in a clearomizer and tried it out. Wow.......
It is pretty good! It vapes more like an analog. A very dry and sweet taste. Definitely not overpowering. Tobacco taste is very mild like an analog. It produces less vapor than I would have thought seeing that it is about 80%VG. I think it actually produces vapor like a 80%PG/20%VG mix.

And...The best for last...

I think it has picked up ALL the different kinds of alkaloids from the tobacco. A soothing feeling came over me after vaping this for a few minutes. Perhaps it is just a placebo effect but I doubt it. I will let my friends at work test it tomorrow and see what kind of feedback they give me.

The Vinegar/Water/VG mixture only has a very subtle smell of vinegar. It looks promising but I will test that one tomorrow.

Any questions?

Pete

 

[pinellaspete]

(Removed double post.)

 

[Bostonsnboxers]

See, I recently did an extraction with loose tobacco and pg. Nothing fancy...no heat involved, just a baby food jar in a sunny window sill for a few days, and what I ended up with wasn't at all dark, but it was very tasty...straight. When mixed with nic any sort of dilution was..well...tasteless. I s'pose steeping might help, but it's rather discouraging to me that you went through all that effort (crock pot, special 'formula', etc) and ended up with something like mine...only darker?

 

[pinellaspete]

See, I recently did an extraction with loose tobacco and pg. Nothing fancy...no heat involved, just a baby food jar in a sunny window sill for a few days, and what I ended up with wasn't at all dark, but it was very tasty...straight. When mixed with nic any sort of dilution was..well...tasteless. I s'pose steeping might help, but it's rather discouraging to me that you went through all that effort (crock pot, special 'formula', etc) and ended up with something like mine...only darker?

On the contrary. Perhaps I didn't explain myself all that well. I thought if I told you that it was the color of black coffee you would expect it to be VERY strong and harsh, but it wasn't overly strong or harsh.

Hmmm...I'm having a tough time describing this.

The extraction tastes very smooth and sweet without hardly any throat hit. Something must have happened to the VG during this process. You can taste sweetness. When I say it tastes like an analog it is that it does not have a cigar flavor at all. The closest I would say it tastes like is FA Black Fire except with more sweetness.

Today I added 1/3 of extraction to 2/3 of my FA Shade mix into a clearomizer and vaped it all day. The most pronounced flavor I could taste was the tobacco extraction. So it can probably be diluted quite a bit and still impart some flavor. I can certainly see this becoming part of an RY4 mix. I can now tell you with certainty that some top shelf vendors are using extractions in their juice, especially their RY4s. My extraction has that elusive flavor I could never get just using flavorings in my mixes. The entire mixture in the clearomizer turned to a very dark brown almost black color.

Sometime this week I will be making an extraction using the more flavorful cigar I purchased the other day. This first mix I made was produced from a mild cigar.

I am going to try and use this first mix in an RY4 mix and let you know how it turns out.

Pete

 

[pinellaspete]

Okay...

I have 3 versions of RY4 mixed. Each mix is 5ml. The only difference in each mix is the level of the tobacco extraction I added to each mix.

I used the following amounts of tobacco extraction in each mix:

8 drops
16 drops
24 drops

The tobacco extraction really colors the mix. I am just testing to see where the sweet spot is as to the tobacco extraction levels.

I am also sampling the tobacco extraction that was made with the VG/Vinegar as I type this. Believe it or not the sweetness I tasted in the other extraction is not there. It really does taste like FA Black Fire now. I cannot taste the vinegar. I can feel that calming sensation though. The vinegar is supposed to unlock the alkaloids from the plant material to make them readily available for extraction.

I think the next time I try the extraction process I am going to try and speed things up a bit. I will use the high heat setting on the Crock Pot and try and reduce the cook time to 8 hours.

Any thoughts?

Questions?

Pete

 

[loxmythe]

How's the vapor and TH on the vinegar mix? Are you getting a good nicotine fix?
Thanks for the posts I'm going to try the vinegar method this weekend with a good cigar.

 

[Tona Aspsusa]

The tobacco extraction really colors the mix. I am just testing to see where the sweet spot is as to the tobacco extraction levels.

Mine does too - but the ones I've used so far are not nearly as dark as what you are describing, could you maybe take a picture and post it?

Also, since you did (at least - I'm a bit feverish from a nasty cold still, not my sharpest this morning) three different extractions, any difference in colour between them?

As you can see from my other thread the difference in colour in mine, darkish red tones for all extractions with water involved, vs yellowish for essentially water-free, were rather startling.

I am also sampling the tobacco extraction that was made with the VG/Vinegar as I type this. Believe it or not the sweetness I tasted in the other extraction is not there. It really does taste like FA Black Fire now. I cannot taste the vinegar. I can feel that calming sensation though. The vinegar is supposed to unlock the alkaloids from the plant material to make them readily available for extraction.

This is so interesting. Must look take a look at what your vinegar proportions was again.

But what you say about sweetness is interesting, because even diluted - which is all that I have tried mine so far (18-30% when nothing else added) - mine were definitely not sweet at all in taste. The PG one had a wonderful syrup-prunes-cognac aroma, but no sweetness in the taste, except for the one inherent in PG or VG, and too was rather muted.

I think the next time I try the extraction process I am going to try and speed things up a bit. I will use the high heat setting on the Crock Pot and try and reduce the cook time to 8 hours.

Why? Do you think more heat will extract more alkaloids/flavours, or is it just because you are impatient? Or are you going for more concentrated extractions?

Me, I've so far only done cold extractions. The most heat I've used has been to warm the VG a bit to get it out of the bottle easier. Mostly just because I am lazy, but also because I am not convinced that heat necessarily really matters.