The impatient newbie strikes again...

[pinellaspete]

I just wanted to add, Pete:

From a 1 hr speed heating, and double filtering, my liquid is almost black as well

does it take the full time in the crock pot to get to that color for you?

I'm not sure, I didn't really check too much during the process last time. The bottles were submerged in the hot water and hard to get to without either burning my fingers or getting my oven mitt wet with the hot water. I'm sure it did in fact take a lot longer than your liquid though. The Crock Pot takes almost an hour just to get up to temp.

perhaps relevant here, is that I didn't heat indirectly. I used my turkish coffee pot, dumped the solution in and sprinkled the tobacco on, and onto the stovetop it all went. Low heat, but it started smoking after a while (I think that was when all the water had boiled off and it was just VG left over) and that's when I stopped

its a bit mild, but I can't stop vaping it. I've been adding it to everything lol

I'm pretty sure you need to use heat for the process to work with VG.

Did your extraction turn out to be smooth and sweet?

Pete

 

[pinellaspete]

Okay...Another experiment.

Tona brought up a really good point. What happens to the VG during this process?

This time I am using the following mixes as my extraction medium:

Mix #1
Vinegar 4ml
Water 6ml
VG 40ml

Mix #2
Water 10ml
VG 40 ml

Mix #3
VG 20ml

Mix #3 will be just plain VG without tobacco or other additives. We will find out what happens to the VG when it just cooks for a long time by itself. It was as clear as water when we started. You will be able to see it in the photos. It is in the farthest jar on the right.

I am seeing if we can increase the concentration of the final extraction by doing 2 things differently this time.

1. I am using cigar pieces that are approximately 1 3/8 inches long versus 1 inch long last time.
2. I am only using 40ml of VG versus 80ml of VG last time.
3. I am using the same 10ml of Water and or Vinegar solvents that were used last time.

The tobacco was still floating in this mix with a bit of room to spare.

Here's the photos:

You need to click on the photos to enlarge them.











Okay...5 pic limit!

I'll finish in the next post.

Pete

 

[pinellaspete]

Here's a couple of more photos:





Alright it is cooking away!

How long should we let it cook this time?

Pete

 

[Cyrus Vap]

I'm not sure, I didn't really check too much during the process last time. The bottles were submerged in the hot water and hard to get to without either burning my fingers or getting my oven mitt wet with the hot water. I'm sure it did in fact take a lot longer than your liquid though. The Crock Pot takes almost an hour just to get up to temp.



I'm pretty sure you need to use heat for the process to work with VG.

Did your extraction turn out to be smooth and sweet?

Pete

yes very smooth and sweet!

So I picked up a cigar and some pipe tobacco today

5 grams of each in a pyrex cup, started with ~30 mls of fluid, 70% VG

Put them in a sauce pan, covered the cups with wax paper, and heated indirectly with water in the saucepan for about 6 hours

I added some water and VG as I went, because I was worried my yield was gonna be too low. Little bit of fudging, nothing quantitative here

Strained each through coffee filter twice

Smell was glorious Both solutions, pitch black

Just mixed the pipe tobacco at 12.5% for a total of ~60% PG/ 40% VG and 36 nic (not counting whatever, if anything I got from the pipe)

Its ridiculously good! It might be a hair too strong. Honestly I was worried I didn't extract enough flavor, so I started at 50% flavor (HAHAHA), didn't work out, so I cut down to 12.5. I may try cutting in half again.

Anyway, can't believe how good it is!

 

[pinellaspete]

yes very smooth and sweet!

So I picked up a cigar and some pipe tobacco today

5 grams of each in a pyrex cup, started with ~30 mls of fluid, 70% VG

Put them in a sauce pan, covered the cups with wax paper, and heated indirectly with water in the saucepan for about 6 hours

I added some water and VG as I went, because I was worried my yield was gonna be too low. Little bit of fudging, nothing quantitative here

Strained each through coffee filter twice

Smell was glorious Both solutions, pitch black

Just mixed the pipe tobacco at 12.5% for a total of ~60% PG/ 40% VG and 36 nic (not counting whatever, if anything I got from the pipe)

Its ridiculously good! It might be a hair too strong. Honestly I was worried I didn't extract enough flavor, so I started at 50% flavor (HAHAHA), didn't work out, so I cut down to 12.5. I may try cutting in half again.

Anyway, can't believe how good it is!

Awesome!

I'm so glad it worked out for you! Isn't it amazing how good it tastes? How simple it really is?

I think we are on to something here!

Good job!

Pete

 

[Cyrus Vap]

So its intuitive to me that heat is important for extraction. I imagine that too much heat would lead to a burnt nasty effect, just the right amount of heat, just the right amount of extraction

Some questions I have for myself, or anyone that cares to chime in. Questions that probably have no real 'right' answer...

1) covering the jar in the crock pot. my gut feeling is to NOT cover, so as to allow the aqueous fraction of the solution to evaporate over time. what's the advantage of covering?

2) post heating/pre filtering steep time. this one I'm just going to have to try

3) optimal ratios. I feel like the 1/5 plant/fluid was great for the pipe tobacco, but not the cigar tobacco (which even after chopping wasn't as finely cut up as the pipe tobacco). Any harm in going higher? 1/8? 1/10?

 

[Malawi]

Very interesting thread indeed.

Myself, I have two small jars with some RYO tobacco - one with plain water and one with 40%(vol) of vodka.

I mixed them up this weekend, and they are standing atop the light fixture of a fish-tank. When the lights are on during the day, they heat up, and cool down to room temp at nigh.

As I have not yet got any PG, I have not tried them out yet. But the PG should arrive some time early next week.

Anyways - I have been thinking a little.
What if you make several solutions, one that is acidic, one alcoholic/neutral and one alkaline solution, and then mix them together in the end?

The thought is that every solution would get out slightly different results, with a more complete extraction as a result.

Guess the solids also have to be addressed - either by fine filtering, settling/centrifuging or some simple chemical reaction.
The big question is how to do this safe, simple and without ruining the flavor or loosing a lot of liquid/concentrate.

 

[Cyrus Vap]

Guess the solids also have to be addressed - either by fine filtering, settling/centrifuging or some simple chemical reaction.

I'd like to find a superior filtration method myself, I find the coffee filter is a big PITA

 

[Bostonsnboxers]

I use coffee filters then filter the results again with a double layer of paper towel. Pib maybe, but it sure does work.

As for using water (only) in an extraction, I would worry about that personally...bacteria, mold.....

 

[pinellaspete]

Some questions I have for myself, or anyone that cares to chime in. Questions that probably have no real 'right' answer...

1) covering the jar in the crock pot. my gut feeling is to NOT cover, so as to allow the aqueous fraction of the solution to evaporate over time. what's the advantage of covering?

In my opinion it might be better to have the container sealed. It locks in the water vapor or steam which is actually the solvent we are using. This allows for the solvent to work longer on the tobacco, it doesn't steam away.

2) post heating/pre filtering steep time. this one I'm just going to have to try

I think this is a great idea.

3) optimal ratios. I feel like the 1/5 plant/fluid was great for the pipe tobacco, but not the cigar tobacco (which even after chopping wasn't as finely cut up as the pipe tobacco). Any harm in going higher? 1/8? 1/10?

It is kind of like making soup in my opinion. There are all kinds of ingredients and everybody's tastes are different.

The one thing you must always keep in mind. The minimum percentage of VG in the liquid you use needs to be somewhere between 60% and 70% for the final product to have a shelf life of several years. That's why I use VG at 80%, just to be on the safe side.

I have read that you don't want to chop the plant material too small. The more you chop it, the more plant cell walls you cut through. That will allow more unwanted plant parts to escape into the extraction. (I know...I know...I can already hear Tona. Some people might want those plant parts in their extraction.) It really is personal preference.

Pete

 

[pinellaspete]

Very interesting thread indeed.

Myself, I have two small jars with some RYO tobacco - one with plain water and one with 40%(vol) of vodka.

I mixed them up this weekend, and they are standing atop the light fixture of a fish-tank. When the lights are on during the day, they heat up, and cool down to room temp at nigh.

BE CAREFUL! The mix you made with water only could be growing mold or bacteria or both!

As I have not yet got any PG, I have not tried them out yet. But the PG should arrive some time early next week.

Anyways - I have been thinking a little.
What if you make several solutions, one that is acidic, one alcoholic/neutral and one alkaline solution, and then mix them together in the end?

The thought is that every solution would get out slightly different results, with a more complete extraction as a result.

This is a REALLY GREAT IDEA! We can mix the Vinegar/VG and Water/VG together at a ratio that you might not taste the vinegar.

Guess the solids also have to be addressed - either by fine filtering, settling/centrifuging or some simple chemical reaction.
The big question is how to do this safe, simple and without ruining the flavor or loosing a lot of liquid/concentrate.

Thanks for your input! You have some really great ideas!

Pete

 

[pinellaspete]

I use coffee filters then filter the results again with a double layer of paper towel. Pib maybe, but it sure does work.

As for using water (only) in an extraction, I would worry about that personally...bacteria, mold.....

I wish we could come up with a better way to filter the extraction. I'm with you guys, the coffee filter method is a mess and takes forever. It works, but could definitely use some improvement.

Pete

 

[loxmythe]

I wonder if the mesh from a pyramid teabag would work as a better filter??

 

[Malawi]

Pete: I did not think of mold/bacteria when I set up the two jars, but I used boiling water and will heat it up to concentrate it. That should help as long as there are no bad byproducts.

Loxmythe - had just the same idea. Great minds etc.

I am thinking several step filtration. First a tea-strainer to get way most of the solids. Then coffee filter/tea-bag. Possibly moving on to several layers.

Have been thinking of using a bottle with a large hole made in the cap. You can then put some filter material over the top of the bottle before screwing on the cap. The bottle can then be put upside down in a jar that will allow the bottle to rest on the rim- -If needed, the bottle can be squeezed to help. But then again, it it drips trough at any rate you only need a little time.
Biggest problem I can think of with this method is that there will be a low-pressure inside the bottle. But if one stick a syringe-needle trough the filtering material to the air inside, that should be fixed.

 

[pinellaspete]

I am thinking several step filtration. First a tea-strainer to get way most of the solids. Then coffee filter/tea-bag. Possibly moving on to several layers.

Have been thinking of using a bottle with a large hole made in the cap. You can then put some filter material over the top of the bottle before screwing on the cap. The bottle can then be put upside down in a jar that will allow the bottle to rest on the rim- -If needed, the bottle can be squeezed to help. But then again, it it drips trough at any rate you only need a little time.
Biggest problem I can think of with this method is that there will be a low-pressure inside the bottle. But if one stick a syringe-needle trough the filtering material to the air inside, that should be fixed.

I also was thinking about using a tea strainer. After pouring the mix with the solids into the tea strainer, fabricating and using some sort of plunger to press the tobacco solids into the bottom of the strainer? Then use a coffee filter to filter a second time.

Here's a tip I learned from another thread. Suspend a coffee filter over a measuring cup and fasten it to the side with clips. I was always using a strainer under my coffee filter before I learned this.

My 2nd extraction is still cooking away. I think I will try to cook it for 48 hours this time. That will be about 7PM EST tonight.

Pete

 

[Cyrus Vap]

The "VG pipe essence" thread used a cotton ball at the base of a syringe and filtered the solution through that. Sounds interesting.

WRT to the above, sounds promising. 1-2X through a tea strainer (or a fine sieve or equivalent) followed by a coffee filter clipped or rubber banded down to a glass might just do the trick!

I wish I could get this stuff as concentrated as TA, but I don't have or desire any hexane in the house

 

[loxmythe]

Maybe a piece fluval or of the blue foam they use in fish tank filters?

 

[Bostonsnboxers]

My method really is easy...and very fine.
For the first strain I use a brown paper cone coffee filter...either fit it inside a gold cone filter (to hold it's shape) or fold the edges over the edges of the cup/bowl and secure w/a rubber band.
For the second filtration you need 2 cups or bowls...one has to fit inside the other.
Take two layers of paper towel and place on the bottom of cup/bowl #1
Place cup/bowl #1 inside cup/bowl #2 (with the paper towel going inside #2) about 1/2 way
Wrapp the edges of the paper towel over the sides of the bottom cup and secure with rubber band
Remove cup #1
It catches everything, and when finished pour out the extract and pitch everything...easy clean up.

Basically what you're doing is creating a paper towel mold with one cup, pressing it down into a second, securing it, then removing the top cup leaves a well/impression to pour the extract. Gosh I hope this makes sense

@Malawi, your extract will still be water with plant material, even after it's strained. Mold, bacteria...I wouldn't store that long term

 

[Cyrus Vap]

Does the paper towel do something for you that the coffee filter doesn't, Patti? Its probably a more 'strict' filter?

My biggest concern with these extracts is they seem to be carto destroyers so far lol

 

[Bostonsnboxers]

Yes, imo it catches a lot of the finer particles that make it through the coffee filter. I would suppose the more layers you used the finer the filtration. Try it