The most important current thread on ECF.....

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goober

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this kind of reminds me of when online poker was banned. They said online poker is dangerous for the youth of the nation but betting on horse racing and buying scratch off isn't.

seriously...i think the odds of winning a jackpot is like 1.7billion to 1 so in theory they are saying you have to buy 1.7 billion tickets before you win one of the jackpots which is average around like 100 million. GREAT DEAL!....-_-

i know this has nothing to do with ecigs but I hate that everytime I find a new unregulated hobby, big government comes in and takes over. Where the blankets are my rights!?

"oh you want rights now? is it time? is it freedom o clock?" -harold n kumar 2.

but the more important question would be: what can we do to help?

edit: I just think they was to regulate ecigs or ban them for a short period of time then re-legalize it so cooperate america can have a headstart. pretty much.
 
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Barto

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this kind of reminds me of when online poker was banned. They said online poker is dangerous for the youth of the nation but betting on horse racing and buying scratch off isn't.

seriously...i think the odds of winning a jackpot is like 1.7billion to 1 so in theory they are saying you have to buy 1.7 billion tickets before you win one of the jackpots which is average around like 100 million. GREAT DEAL!....-_-

i know this has nothing to do with ecigs but I hate that everytime I find a new unregulated hobby, big government comes in and takes over. Where the blankets are my rights!?

"oh you want rights now? is it time? is it freedom o clock?" -harold n kumar 2.

but the more important question would be: what can we do to help?

edit: I just think they was to regulate ecigs or ban them for a short period of time then re-legalize it so cooperate america can have a headstart. pretty much.

Good analogy with online poker!
 

Tarkvemada

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Man, I get so nervous when I read that thread. I just started vaping, 3 days free of analogs, and now the FDA wants me to throw away my PV and go buy a carton of smokes. Either the FDA wants me dead, or RJ Reynolds wants me alive and smoking. I swear big tobacco owns the FDA. Maybe big tobacco should jump on the vaping wagon, and start manufacturing and marketing ecigs. They could still make a ton of money off this technology. But of course they'd end up adding 1000 other chemicals to the juice to keep us hooked. (and give us cancer, heart disease, and whatever else it takes to make money off our death)

Man, I really hope the FDA doesn't get their way. Things like this make me sad to be an american sometimes. We're suppose to be the land of freedom and opportunity. But instead we're slaves to big tobacco, and the FDA rapes us of the opportunity to be free.

POWER TO THE PEOPLE!

This is the best organization money can buy! LOL
 

wv2win

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Everyone in the US on this forum should have a CASAA banner at the bottom of their posts and be a supporting member of CASAA. If they are not, then they are not doing at least the minimum to keep vaping available to all of us. If people on this forum are not supporting CASAA, then the most logical avatar they should use is this one:

ostrich.jpg
 

TravTech

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Everyone in the US on this forum should have a CASAA banner at the bottom of their posts and be a supporting member of CASAA. If they are not, then they are not doing at least the minimum to keep vaping available to all of us. If people on this forum are not supporting CASAA, then the most logical avatar they should use is this one:

Why not just make ECF a "for pay" subscription only forum and contribute it all to CASAA?

Oh wait, I know why. Because this isn't soviet Russia and the free exchange of ideas and opinions, regardless of advertised affiliations or contributions, is part of what makes this forum (and freedom) great.

Many people contribute to lots of different organizations. But they don't have to plaster their car with bumper stickers to make sure everyone knows "how much they care" and "what a good person" they are. For some it's a much more personal thing, there goes that darn freedom stuff again.
 

wv2win

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Why not just make ECF a "for pay" subscription only forum and contribute it all to CASAA?

Oh wait, I know why. Because this isn't soviet Russia and the free exchange of ideas and opinions, regardless of advertised affiliations or contributions, is part of what makes this forum (and freedom) great.

Many people contribute to lots of different organizations. But they don't have to plaster their car with bumper stickers to make sure everyone knows "how much they care" and "what a good person" they are. For some it's a much more personal thing, there goes that darn freedom stuff again.

It's appears that you are not quick to pick up on the "obvious". When an activity that is saving lives is under attack, it's a pretty smart idea for those whose lives are being saved to do at least the minimum to help insure this activity is not taken away. The banner is not to "show off" to anyone that one supports CASAA, as your negative mind insinuated, but instead to help inform new people that vaping has a non-profit organization that is fighting to keep vaping from being banned and they should check it out.

The fact that CASAA created the banner and encourages all it's members to use it, must put them in the former USSR's form of operating based on that comparison.
 
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morri

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It's appears that you are not quick to pick up on the "obvious". When an activity that is saving lives is under attack, it's a pretty smart idea for those whose lives are being saved to do at least the minimum to help insure this activity is not taken away. The banner is not to "show off" to anyone that one supports CASAA, as your negative mind insinuated, but instead to help inform new people that vaping has a non-profit organization that is fighting to keep vaping from being banned and they should check it out.

The fact that CASAA created the banner and encourages all it's members to use it, must put them in the former USSR's form of operating based on that comparison.

First of all, I believe that you are in error to have made this thread about what banner we choose to have at the bottom of our posts. I believe there are serious and important issues that we should be discussing. Secondly, I was offended by the "bird with his head in the sand" graphic, along with your comment that we, who do not have the CASAA banner, should have as an avatar. Thirdly, I was offended by what you said to TravTech. I believe you are rapidly approaching that thin line that scoots over the top of the TOS rules here. We are supposed to be respectful to each other, and it seems that a person who has been a member of EFC for such a long time would certainly be aware of these rules.

I believe that most of us are against regulation, although we expect there will be some, to some extent. Basically, I am against regulation of my e-cigs. I am also against anyone trying to regulate what I have for lunch, what colors I can have in my wardrobe, what kind of foods that I may eat, my toilet habits, and........ my little personality quirks along with what kind of banner I want to use at the bottom of my posts.

You seem to want to be a regulator and that is what we are fighting against.



My
:2c:
 

wv2win

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First of all, I believe that you are in error to have made this thread about what banner we choose to have at the bottom of our posts. I believe there are serious and important issues that we should be discussing. Secondly, I was offended by the "bird with his head in the sand" graphic, along with your comment that we, who do not have the CASAA banner, should have as an avatar. Thirdly, I was offended by what you said to TravTech. I believe you are rapidly approaching that thin line that scoots over the top of the TOS rules here. We are supposed to be respectful to each other, and it seems that a person who has been a member of EFC for such a long time would certainly be aware of these rules.

I believe that most of us are against regulation, although we expect there will be some, to some extent. Basically, I am against regulation of my e-cigs. I am also against anyone trying to regulate what I have for lunch, what colors I can have in my wardrobe, what kind of foods that I may eat, my toilet habits, and........ my little personality quirks along with what kind of banner I want to use at the bottom of my posts.

You seem to want to be a regulator and that is what we are fighting against.

My
:2c:

My post with the ostrich in the sand was ment to be strong to get people to think about what is at stake. I did not attack anyone personally but kept my comments "general" and not specific to one person as TravTec did to me. TravTec on the other hand takes multiple opportunities to start arguements with me as I did not take issue with him until he inferred that my asking everyone to support CASAA was akin to being a Communist.

So you can climb down from your lofty perch and cut out the personal attacks. I didn't attack you or TravTec with my initial comment as you did me. Maybe you should consider getting off your back side and direct your venom towards those trying to ban vaping instead of those of us who are actively trying to protect everyone's right to vape.
 

morri

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My post with the ostrich in the sand was ment to be strong to get people to think about what is at stake. I did not attack anyone personally but kept my comments "general" and not specific to one person as TravTec did to me. TravTec on the other hand takes multiple opportunities to start arguements with me as I did not take issue with him until he inferred that my asking everyone to support CASAA was akin to being a Communist.

So you can climb down from your lofty perch and cut out the personal attacks. I didn't attack you or TravTec with my initial comment as you did me. Maybe you should consider getting off your back side and direct your venom towards those trying to ban vaping instead of those of us who are actively trying to protect everyone's right to vape.

I almost did not respond to this "attack", but when a person that I do not know personally, tells me what to do with my backside, it doesn't set well. You did admit that you attacked us in a general, non specific way. When you said "Everyone in the US on this forum", and since I was born and raised in Texas, and a member of this forum, I guess you attacked me, in a general, non specific way. Of course when you bring my backside into it, it gets a little more personal, wouldn't you agree?

I maintain that I thought this forum was about the importance of joining CASAA and the importance of joining together to fight a common enemy. That is the reason I first came here. To find out more about CASAA and see if it was something I wanted to get involved in. I had no idea it was about general, non specific attacks on each other or I would have just skipped it.

If you, sir are the poster boy for CASAA, think I will pass. I don't come here to argue with people. I love this forum and the people here. If what you are trying to do is gain members for CASSA, I am sorry to tell you sir, but you are not doing well. Adults do not accept bullying very well. If we choose to follow CASAA, it will be because it is something we want to be a part of, not because some self-appointed Commander berates us if we don't.

I think I will remain up here on my lofty perch for a while longer. Why? Because I can.

Morri
 

JENerationX

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I'm a member of CASAA, have made donations, and will continue to do so as long as I am able to financially. I do not feel it's an obligation to do so, nor do I feel the need to plaster it all over with banners etc. I don't do that with my American Red Cross donations, Cancer Society donations, or anything else I actively contribute to. The beauty of being in the US is that I choose what my money supports and don't have to justify it to anyone. I've told people I've converted to vaping that CASAA exists, and given them cards, put I'm not going to hound them about donating or joining. It's their choice. I'm sure there are a lot of CASAA supporters here that don't necessarily fly the flag publicly.
 

TravTech

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... I maintain that I thought this forum was about the importance of joining CASAA and the importance of joining together to fight a common enemy. That is the reason I first came here. To find out more about CASAA and see if it was something I wanted to get involved in. ...

As did I. But the very first post I read was about being bullied and berated into displaying the banner.

Along with the freedom to vape, I support all manners of freedom. Including the freedom to display (or not) whatever it is I choose to.
 

morri

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Agreed estaz. I think it's obvious what's going on behind the scenes. All we can do is keep our composure, continue to vape, and support CASAA, ECF, and all its members. It seems to me there's very little time for arguments, ladies and gentlemen.

I am in total agreement! I will strive for the continuation of the good work done and am a member of CASAA and proud to be one. I will do my best to spread word about CASAA and the good things they are doing. :)

morri
 

Vocalek

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CASAA welcomes other sites posting a link to ours, but it is definitely not CASAA policy to bully or berate any person or organization to display our banner. We do ask vendors to include a disclaimer statement to make it clear that CASAA does not endorse any product or vendor.

CASAA encourages the use of a link to the CASAA website as a means of providing accurate, unbiased information to consumers and the industry. Unless otherwise stated on casaa.org, CASAA does not have any affiliation with an organization, business, or individual that displays the CASAA logo or provides a link to the CASAA site.

CASAA welcomes individuals to display a CASAA banner in their ECF signatures, but "welcomes" does not translate into "insists upon."

For those who don't know who we are and what we do:

Our mission is to ensure the availability of effective, affordable and reduced harm alternatives to smoking by increasing public awareness and education; to encourage the testing and development of products to achieve acceptable safety standards and reasonable regulation; and to promote the benefits of reduced harm alternatives.

Feel free to contact CASAA's board to address questions or concerns that you may have about CASAA's activities or policies. The email form on this page is forwarded to every member of our Board of Directors:
Contact CASAA
 
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Vocalek

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Those who joined ECF after 2009 may be unaware of the legal battle that raged when the FDA began seizing incoming shipments of e-cigarettes, claiming that the products are an "unapproved combination drug and drug delivery device". The FDA regulates drugs and medical devices under the Food, Drug, and Cosmetics Act (FDCA). Smoking Everywhere filed a complaint in Federal Court asking for an injunction against product seizures. They were joined shortly thereafter by Soterra, Inc. (Doing Business As NJOY).

Both companies argued that e-cigarettes are not intended to treat a disease. As a means of swaying public opinion, the FDA held a press conference in July 2009, announcing that "a laboratory analysis of electronic cigarette samples has found that they contain carcinogens and toxic chemicals such as diethylene glycol, an ingredient used in antifreeze." The press gleefully picked up the story and as a result, many smokers who were considering trying an e-cigarette decided that it would be safer to stick with the practice of tobacco-filled paper tubes on fire and inhaling the smoke.

My critique of the FDA's use of propaganda techniques is published here: FDA's partial truths and exaggerations endanger health

As luck would have it, the judge in the case of Smoking Everywhere v. U.S. Food and Drug Administration, wasn't fooled by the FDA's chicanery. When he ruled on the case in January of 2010, he granted the injunction. His opinion document agreed with the Plaintiffs that e-cigarettes are not a drug or a drug-delivery device. After the case was filed but before the judge made his ruling, the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act was passed. Judge Leon advised the FDA that if it felt a need to regulate the products, the agency could do so using the "Tobacco Act". Although the Tobacco Act granted the FDA authority to regulate only Cigarettes and Smokeless Tobacco, the judge noticed that the secretary could deem other tobacco products to be included in the regulatory process, and that the law's definition of "tobacco product" is "any product made of or derived from tobacco." The judge reasoned that since the nicotine in e-cigarettes is extracted from tobacco, the products met the law's definition of a tobacco product. He also reasoned that if a manufacturer or vendor did make medical claims, the FDA could regulate that particular product as a drug or drug-delivery device under the FDCA. Judge Leon's opinion document is available here: http://www.casaa.org/uploads/SE-vs-FDA-Opinion.pdf

But the legal battle at the Federal level was not over at that time. The FDA appealed and asked the Appeals Court to set aside the injunction. Their request was granted and the FDA resumed seizing incoming shipments. Written and Oral arguments ensued. CASAA was among a group of organizations that filed an Amicus (friend of the court) Brief in support of the Plaintiffs. The Appeals Court ruled against FDA in December of 2010. Here is the opinion document of the three-judge panel: http://www.casaa.org/uploads/ct_app_opinion_on_injunction.pdf

The tenacious agency appealed again, asking the Appeals court for rehearing with all 9 judges. The Appeals court turned down the request. At the point, the FDA's only legal recourse would have been to ask the Supreme Court to hear the case. The FDA's legal team (members of the Department of Justice) finally decided that it would be futile to continue. In April 2011, the FDA announced that in the future only products that made health claims would be detained. http://www.casaa.org/uploads/Declar...ziano__FDA__in_NJOY_v._FDA_re_importation.pdf

For those who are unfamiliar with the nuances of what all this means: If the courts had ruled that FDA could regulate all e-cigarettes under the FDCA, this would have meant that all sales of the product would be banned. The only way an e-cigarette could be sold would be if a manufacturer made a New Drug Application with the FDA, went through all of the required testing, reports, and clinical trials, and if the FDA finally decided that it was "safe and effective" and granted the company permission to market the products. As you can imagine, the new drug approval process is complex, expensive, and time-consuming.

The FDA has since announced that it intends to "deem" e-cigarettes a product that it will regulate under the Tobacco Act. In this article, I discuss how the FDA could still manage ban sales of most, if not all, e-cigarettes. FDA Regulation Could Make E-Cigarettes Less Effective

Legal battles were already starting in 2010 at the state and local level. CASAA has issued a Call to Action whenever a law or regulation has been proposed that would prevent sales to adults or impose restrictions on products themselves or product use. Here is a list of successful campaigns. Successful CASAA Campaigns

These battles continue. Here is CASAA's list of Calls to Action: CASAA Calls to Action

We welcome your participation and support.
 

Vocalek

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The purpose of this thread was to let people know that one of their freedoms is in jeopardy. Once the FDA gains the full authority to "regulate" e-cigarettes, the agency could decree that all models that were not being sold in February of 2007 must be taken off the market. That would leave us with batteries that don't last more than a few hours and with poorly built cartridges that leak liquid into our mouths. They could decide "a cigarette is a cigarette" and rule that no flavors other than tobacco or menthol are permitted, just as they did with tobacco cigarettes. The 70% of e-cigarette consumers who use a fruit, beverage, or candy-flavored liquid at least occasionally would be left with nothing other than flavors they now find distasteful. They could decide that liquids with nicotine present a huge danger of poisoning little kids and decree that only sealed, non-refillable cartridges are permitted. They could decide that anything more than 16 mg of nicotine is too high a level. That would leave the 57% of e-cigarette consumers that use a higher concentration unsatisfied, and some of them might go back to smoking.

The issue is not about what banner you have at the bottom of your post. The issue is about the bullying that is coming from our government, from the ALA, ACS, AHA, and CTFK. I think what wv2win was trying to say was that unless more people become active in fighting this, we could end up with products that no longer help us to remain smoke-free or with no products at all!

I wish that all of the time and energy we waste arguing with each other could be applied to fighting the real enemies who don't care if we live or die.
 

morri

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CASAA welcomes other sites posting a link to ours, but it is definitely not CASAA policy to bully or berate any person or organization to display our banner. We do ask vendors to include a disclaimer statement to make it clear that CASAA does not endorse any product or vendor.



CASAA welcomes individuals to display a CASAA banner in their ECF signatures, but "welcomes" does not translate into "insists upon."

For those who don't know who we are and what we do:



Feel free to contact CASAA's board to address questions or concerns that you may have about CASAA's activities or policies. The email form on this page is forwarded to every member of our Board of Directors:
Contact CASAA

Thank You so much for posting the links and the information. It is terribly serious and we are all in jepordy.
 
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