The Really Big RY4 Roundup (long)
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dawg,
Don has never been forthcoming about his ingredients. Rumor has it that most of BWB's tobacco blends are made with in-house natural extracted tobacco, but which blends are and aren't, as well as the extraction techniques, and whatever additional tobacco flavorings might be used (Tobacco Absolute/Extract or synthetics), is a closely-guarded secret.
I have an interesting do-over to report.
Back in November, I sent a message to Sam, the owner of OrbVapor, asking if he would consider sending me samples of Orbs RY4 for review. He graciously agreed to do so. At the time, I thought that Orb offered two different RY4s, one Natural and the other Organic, since RY4 was listed under both categories in separate product pages. I asked for the Natural to be 50/50 PG/VG (one of various options offered on the site) with regular flavor, and the Organic to be 100% VG (the only option offered) with extra flavor. Ive subsequently concluded that these are the same juice, made from identical flavorings in the same mix and recipe profile, with the only difference being the base blends. Both vials were labeled Organic RY4 and tasted exactly the same except for the subtle but discernible differences in the viscosity of the base blends and the ways that PG and VG taste or feel different when vaped.
OK. So far, so good. I reviewed Orbs Organic RY4 on November 20th in post #3234. (Click on the post number to go to the original review.)
That review stated my opinion that Organic RY4 was an extremely custom RY4, right at the edge of the RY4 flavor profile. I also described the flavors as unified and soft, and gave the juice a grade of B. I fear that Sam may have interpreted my use of the word soft to be a criticism, which it wasnt. I intended it as a neutral description, not a pejorative judgment.
Anyway, I got an email from Sam on November 22nd, in which he thanked me for the honest assessment in my review and offered to send me another batch of the two versions of Organic RY4, this time with additional flavoring, if I wanted to revisit the juices. I replied by saying sure. About a week ago I received the second package in the mail.
Im not entirely sure that a week is enough steeping time for organic liquids, but today I loaded both versions into 2.5 ohm Ultimate CE2 Clearos, so I could compare and contrast them side-by-side.
First, let me state unequivocally and for the record that I support the movement toward natural and organic juices. Im not particularly fearful of toxins in non-organic eliquids, but I appreciate the possibility of higher-quality flavorings that taste better, and whatever greater purity may come with that is OK in my book. Im on Sams side and hope that he succeeds as a juice vendor.
So, three questions arise surrounding this before-and-after comparison:
The first two questions are easier for me to answer than the third.
Are the juices different? Well, a little, but not much. Over my two years of vaping, Ive had original and vendor-revised versions of numerous juices. I got an early version of ECBlend RY4, followed by a subsequently altered version later. I also vaped the first version of NLV Renegade RY4, as well as a later revised edition. Recently I compared VaporBeast Holy Grail RY4 to MountainOakVapor CountRY-4 (Brandy at MOV created both juices, presumably custom-tailoring the one she made for VaporBeast). Now Ive had two versions of Orb Organic RY4. What strikes me about all four experiences is the remarkable internal consistency. In each of the pairs, the revised versions carried the respective and distinct signature of each vendor's juicemaker.
When I settle into bed late at night and turn on the classical music radio station, I can instantly recognize anything by Aaron Copland, Beethoven, Mozart, or George Gershwin, to mention just a few composers I know fairly well. Even when I don't know the particular piece of music that's playing, I can recognize certain composers right off. Juice artisans and their juices are similar to me. In each of the four examples above, the revised formulations of the juice carried the characteristic signature of the juicemaker who created the original version. The later versions could never be mistaken for another vendors juice.
I think this may be a general truism about creativity that applies across-the-board to many artists and artisans---musicians, chefs, physicists, fine carpenters, juicemakers, etc. Exceptions exist, of course, often conspicuously. Picasso had distinct periods where he seemingly reinvented himself from scratch. Some artists are inherently eclectic and more chameleon-like. But by and large, artists of every stripe tend to create what is in them to create.
That part doesnt surprise me. What does take me aback, at least in the four juice examples above, is this: I couldnt tell any substantial or meaningful difference between the earlier and later juices. In two instances, a certain subtle tweaking was apparent, but only very slight. In the other two, I couldnt detect any difference at all between the original and next-generation juices. In addition to the characteristic signature, all the before-and-after juices were about 98% identical, at least to my palate. I presume that the 2% is magnified in the mind of the creators, so that the "altered" juices may seem quite different to them. As an outsider, however, I taste them as pretty much the same.
The only difference I can pinpoint in the before-and-after Orb Organic RY4s is this: The original had a subtle overtone that my brain wanted to call apple-like. In the revised version with extra flavorings, the apple was gone, replaced (or covered) by a stronger caramel flavor. Other than that, and aside from the fact that I could tell that the second batch had more flavoring than the first, I honestly didnt taste much, if any, difference.
The third question is the one I find vexing. I want to help Sam (in whatever small way I can), so it would be nice to move Organic RY4 up in the grade rankings. Unfortunately, Im stuck between a rock and a hard place, because I actually like the original versions a little better than the revised versions with extra flavor. I wouldnt go so far as to call the new versions a step down, but I still feel the same way I felt in the first review. These RY4s, however much flavoring is used, impress me as unusual (I might say unique, which has a more positive connotation than eccentric), they have soft flavors (not a bad thing), and they will probably appeal to a potential market of RY4 lovers who want organic juices and dont mind pushing the flavor envelope of traditional RY4s.
There. I said it. Organic RY4 got a B grade from me before, and its still a B. Gosh, I hope Sam doesnt start tearing out his hair and feeling regret that he ever sent me samples in the first place.
Back in November, I sent a message to Sam, the owner of OrbVapor, asking if he would consider sending me samples of Orbs RY4 for review. He graciously agreed to do so. At the time, I thought that Orb offered two different RY4s, one Natural and the other Organic, since RY4 was listed under both categories in separate product pages. I asked for the Natural to be 50/50 PG/VG (one of various options offered on the site) with regular flavor, and the Organic to be 100% VG (the only option offered) with extra flavor. Ive subsequently concluded that these are the same juice, made from identical flavorings in the same mix and recipe profile, with the only difference being the base blends. Both vials were labeled Organic RY4 and tasted exactly the same except for the subtle but discernible differences in the viscosity of the base blends and the ways that PG and VG taste or feel different when vaped.
OK. So far, so good. I reviewed Orbs Organic RY4 on November 20th in post #3234. (Click on the post number to go to the original review.)
That review stated my opinion that Organic RY4 was an extremely custom RY4, right at the edge of the RY4 flavor profile. I also described the flavors as unified and soft, and gave the juice a grade of B. I fear that Sam may have interpreted my use of the word soft to be a criticism, which it wasnt. I intended it as a neutral description, not a pejorative judgment.
Anyway, I got an email from Sam on November 22nd, in which he thanked me for the honest assessment in my review and offered to send me another batch of the two versions of Organic RY4, this time with additional flavoring, if I wanted to revisit the juices. I replied by saying sure. About a week ago I received the second package in the mail.
Im not entirely sure that a week is enough steeping time for organic liquids, but today I loaded both versions into 2.5 ohm Ultimate CE2 Clearos, so I could compare and contrast them side-by-side.
First, let me state unequivocally and for the record that I support the movement toward natural and organic juices. Im not particularly fearful of toxins in non-organic eliquids, but I appreciate the possibility of higher-quality flavorings that taste better, and whatever greater purity may come with that is OK in my book. Im on Sams side and hope that he succeeds as a juice vendor.
So, three questions arise surrounding this before-and-after comparison:
1. Are the juices different?
2. If so, how?
3. Is the new version with more flavoring an improvement that deserves a higher grade than the B I gave the original?
2. If so, how?
3. Is the new version with more flavoring an improvement that deserves a higher grade than the B I gave the original?
The first two questions are easier for me to answer than the third.
Are the juices different? Well, a little, but not much. Over my two years of vaping, Ive had original and vendor-revised versions of numerous juices. I got an early version of ECBlend RY4, followed by a subsequently altered version later. I also vaped the first version of NLV Renegade RY4, as well as a later revised edition. Recently I compared VaporBeast Holy Grail RY4 to MountainOakVapor CountRY-4 (Brandy at MOV created both juices, presumably custom-tailoring the one she made for VaporBeast). Now Ive had two versions of Orb Organic RY4. What strikes me about all four experiences is the remarkable internal consistency. In each of the pairs, the revised versions carried the respective and distinct signature of each vendor's juicemaker.
When I settle into bed late at night and turn on the classical music radio station, I can instantly recognize anything by Aaron Copland, Beethoven, Mozart, or George Gershwin, to mention just a few composers I know fairly well. Even when I don't know the particular piece of music that's playing, I can recognize certain composers right off. Juice artisans and their juices are similar to me. In each of the four examples above, the revised formulations of the juice carried the characteristic signature of the juicemaker who created the original version. The later versions could never be mistaken for another vendors juice.
I think this may be a general truism about creativity that applies across-the-board to many artists and artisans---musicians, chefs, physicists, fine carpenters, juicemakers, etc. Exceptions exist, of course, often conspicuously. Picasso had distinct periods where he seemingly reinvented himself from scratch. Some artists are inherently eclectic and more chameleon-like. But by and large, artists of every stripe tend to create what is in them to create.
That part doesnt surprise me. What does take me aback, at least in the four juice examples above, is this: I couldnt tell any substantial or meaningful difference between the earlier and later juices. In two instances, a certain subtle tweaking was apparent, but only very slight. In the other two, I couldnt detect any difference at all between the original and next-generation juices. In addition to the characteristic signature, all the before-and-after juices were about 98% identical, at least to my palate. I presume that the 2% is magnified in the mind of the creators, so that the "altered" juices may seem quite different to them. As an outsider, however, I taste them as pretty much the same.
The only difference I can pinpoint in the before-and-after Orb Organic RY4s is this: The original had a subtle overtone that my brain wanted to call apple-like. In the revised version with extra flavorings, the apple was gone, replaced (or covered) by a stronger caramel flavor. Other than that, and aside from the fact that I could tell that the second batch had more flavoring than the first, I honestly didnt taste much, if any, difference.
The third question is the one I find vexing. I want to help Sam (in whatever small way I can), so it would be nice to move Organic RY4 up in the grade rankings. Unfortunately, Im stuck between a rock and a hard place, because I actually like the original versions a little better than the revised versions with extra flavor. I wouldnt go so far as to call the new versions a step down, but I still feel the same way I felt in the first review. These RY4s, however much flavoring is used, impress me as unusual (I might say unique, which has a more positive connotation than eccentric), they have soft flavors (not a bad thing), and they will probably appeal to a potential market of RY4 lovers who want organic juices and dont mind pushing the flavor envelope of traditional RY4s.
There. I said it. Organic RY4 got a B grade from me before, and its still a B. Gosh, I hope Sam doesnt start tearing out his hair and feeling regret that he ever sent me samples in the first place.
So it looks like ill take one for the team and order The Vapor Pro USA RY4 .....they are charging over $7.95 lol wow for shipping but the juice for 30ml is $11.00 so under $20.. I guess not bad...
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Nashville Vapor is a reseller that recently started carrying their own ejuice line called Sancia Smoke E-Liquids. The flavors sound good. I chose Master Blend, not really knowing what to expect. The website describes it as such.
And fresh it is, mixed Wednesday and first tasted Friday. Instantly I recognized it as an RY4. It has the rich caramel of many custom ry4 blends. Equally strong (but mostly on the exhale) is a delicious vanilla cream. And the tobacco lingers out front throughout the vape. It has almost a buttery taste, like KBV's RY4, but the tobacco is much bolder than Kick Bass's version.
I think Bill is going to get a sample (from the vendor) for review, but I just wanted to let you know how much I like it. Even fresh, it has a nice strong flavor, yet the color of the liquid is only flesh colored. Master Blend is a high quality RY4 that blends smooth with bold. Definitely an all-day flavor.
I have been impressed by some of the RY4s that I have been trying lately. Even new vendors are coming up with delicious custom RY4 blends. Just this week I have tried two vendors that have been only selling their blends for a month or so, My Vape Juice and now Nashville Vapor. Both RY4 versions have surpassed anything I could have expected. Both have bold tobacco surrounded by a quality mix of caramel and vanilla. I put these new versions at least equal to the big dogs. Nashville's Master Blend compares to GoodEjuice's GJ4, MyVapeJuice's Our RY4 compares to Spring Vapor's Black Label. Both earn an A grade from me.
As long as new vendors keep creating quality RY4s, there is no reason for this thread to ever end!
I just received my bottle yesterday, but it smelled good, so I tried it fresh.
And fresh it is, mixed Wednesday and first tasted Friday. Instantly I recognized it as an RY4. It has the rich caramel of many custom ry4 blends. Equally strong (but mostly on the exhale) is a delicious vanilla cream. And the tobacco lingers out front throughout the vape. It has almost a buttery taste, like KBV's RY4, but the tobacco is much bolder than Kick Bass's version.
I think Bill is going to get a sample (from the vendor) for review, but I just wanted to let you know how much I like it. Even fresh, it has a nice strong flavor, yet the color of the liquid is only flesh colored. Master Blend is a high quality RY4 that blends smooth with bold. Definitely an all-day flavor.
I have been impressed by some of the RY4s that I have been trying lately. Even new vendors are coming up with delicious custom RY4 blends. Just this week I have tried two vendors that have been only selling their blends for a month or so, My Vape Juice and now Nashville Vapor. Both RY4 versions have surpassed anything I could have expected. Both have bold tobacco surrounded by a quality mix of caramel and vanilla. I put these new versions at least equal to the big dogs. Nashville's Master Blend compares to GoodEjuice's GJ4, MyVapeJuice's Our RY4 compares to Spring Vapor's Black Label. Both earn an A grade from me.
As long as new vendors keep creating quality RY4s, there is no reason for this thread to ever end!
dude,
Your description makes Master Blend sound wonderful! It does seem to go in waves, doesn't it? For awhile the tide is out on RY4s, and we find no new ones worth writing home about. Then---bang, bang---we get our socks knocked off by not one but two or even three new RY4s.
I've already added MyVapeJuice's Our RY4 to the next update of The Big List. I'll wait on NashvilleVapor's Master Blend to see if some arrives in my mailbox. If so, cool. If not, I'll add it anyway and use your post above as the review link.
Your description makes Master Blend sound wonderful! It does seem to go in waves, doesn't it? For awhile the tide is out on RY4s, and we find no new ones worth writing home about. Then---bang, bang---we get our socks knocked off by not one but two or even three new RY4s.
I've already added MyVapeJuice's Our RY4 to the next update of The Big List. I'll wait on NashvilleVapor's Master Blend to see if some arrives in my mailbox. If so, cool. If not, I'll add it anyway and use your post above as the review link.
I received my order of Vaporescence RY4 on Friday and will have a review in a few days. I tried it fresh, but am going to wait and let it steep some before passing any judgements. Dude, I visited Nashville Vapor's web site a couple of months ago but did not make a purchase. I might have to visit them again!
So it looks like a local from ECF has a RY4 that seems to be hiding in the background not sure if thats a good thing or not but it is called Thunder Roll RY4 
..... Thunder Roll (RY4) 8mg-10ml - $7.99 : Stormys Vapor Cellar, Electronic Cigarettes & More
..... Thunder Roll (RY4) 8mg-10ml - $7.99 : Stormys Vapor Cellar, Electronic Cigarettes & More
So it looks like a local from ECF has a RY4 that seems to be hiding in the background not sure if thats a good thing or not but it is called Thunder Roll RY4
passer,
Did you order some Thunder Roll RY4, or are you just giving us a heads up?
... just heads up really but its on my list
Now it'll be on my list, too. Thanks!
My new 30ml bottle of TW Ruyan 4/RY4 is steeping on my work table now. I don't know if it needs steeping, but I routinely give all new juices a week of steeping now before sampling or review. Another four or five days, and we'll see what we see.
Two other new-to-me RY4s are steeping right alongside the TW, so more reviews will be upcoming by next week.
Review: Vaporescence RY4
The RY4 I order I placed was for 1 30ml bottle of 16mg nic strength and the PG/VG ratio was not specified. This bottle was clear as water when I received it and after a week of steeping, is still very clear with only the slightest hint of any color. Based upon the consistency of the liquid, I would assume it is at least 40% VG and probably more.
I always vape any new juice straight out of the mailbox and I was not impressed at first. After a week (from ship date), much better. I am not the best at identifying all the subtle notes of any liquid and never will be. What I can do is compare one juice to another fairly well and identify differences. Well, I am stumped on this one. It is not very similar to any of the 25 or so RY4's I have tried. I would have to classify this one as stronger tobacco, with well blended vanilla and caramel.
The tobacco base is straight forward, no off-putting taste and fairly strong (especially for 16mg strength). Vapor production is above average and would coincide with a heavier VG blend that I suspect. The caramel and vanilla blend together as one but here is where it gets wierd to my palate/brain. Along with a faint sweetness, there is a strong almost overpowering sour / tartness to the blend. At first, I did not like it very much. After a week, it has toned down somewhat but still up front and center right with the stronger than average tobacco. My guess is the tobacco is synthetic but again, the tobacco is strong but still pleasant and not off-putting.
I may send Bill a sample and let the RY4 review master try and put into words what I am experiencing. I do like this juice if for no other reason that it is so different. And, since I cannot seem to stop vaping it in my regular rotation, a grade of B+ or maybe A- seems to be in order.
The RY4 I order I placed was for 1 30ml bottle of 16mg nic strength and the PG/VG ratio was not specified. This bottle was clear as water when I received it and after a week of steeping, is still very clear with only the slightest hint of any color. Based upon the consistency of the liquid, I would assume it is at least 40% VG and probably more.
I always vape any new juice straight out of the mailbox and I was not impressed at first. After a week (from ship date), much better. I am not the best at identifying all the subtle notes of any liquid and never will be. What I can do is compare one juice to another fairly well and identify differences. Well, I am stumped on this one. It is not very similar to any of the 25 or so RY4's I have tried. I would have to classify this one as stronger tobacco, with well blended vanilla and caramel.
The tobacco base is straight forward, no off-putting taste and fairly strong (especially for 16mg strength). Vapor production is above average and would coincide with a heavier VG blend that I suspect. The caramel and vanilla blend together as one but here is where it gets wierd to my palate/brain. Along with a faint sweetness, there is a strong almost overpowering sour / tartness to the blend. At first, I did not like it very much. After a week, it has toned down somewhat but still up front and center right with the stronger than average tobacco. My guess is the tobacco is synthetic but again, the tobacco is strong but still pleasant and not off-putting.
I may send Bill a sample and let the RY4 review master try and put into words what I am experiencing. I do like this juice if for no other reason that it is so different. And, since I cannot seem to stop vaping it in my regular rotation, a grade of B+ or maybe A- seems to be in order.
So I got in The Vapor Pro Wicked Vapor USA RY4........talk about Christmas time this RY4 is perfect for the season and if you need something to vape while your letting your car warm up when its 15 degrees out this is it ....candy caramel with vanilla... a good mix, its got spice which I dont have any in my stock so Ill keep it around, no classic Chinese here but more of a classic older vendor RY4 mix. there is a odd flavor with this one that floats on top the spicy, very strong and the best way to explain it is a peppermint and licorice mix, this RY4 is nothing new to me but the kick of over the top spice is and how it works well with the sweetness. the turn off on this juice is the tobacco base and it reminds me Copper Creek. I am not mad at this juice but the cash I paid for it is gone forever 
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I added both Vaporescence RY4 and TheVaporPro Wicked Vapor USA RY4 to The Big RY4 List, along with vendor links and links to the reviews (which I credited to On Target and Passerbyeus respectively). As chance would have it, they went right next to each other in the list. They'll show up on the next update of all the lists. I didn't include them on The Big RY4 Report Card, however, since that's my personal list, and I'm the only buffoon who should catch hell for those oh-so-subjective judgments. LOL.
I also listed Vaporescence under the Categories for Stronger Tobacco and Sweet & Sour, while TheVaproPro got placed under Distinctive/Atypical. If there are other categories I should consider, please let me know.
I also listed Vaporescence under the Categories for Stronger Tobacco and Sweet & Sour, while TheVaproPro got placed under Distinctive/Atypical. If there are other categories I should consider, please let me know.
So I got in The Vapor Pro Wicked Vapor USA RY4........talk about Christmas time this RY4 is perfect for the season and if you need something to vape while your letting your car warm up when its 15 degrees out this is it ....candy caramel with vanilla... a good mix, its got spice which I dont have any in my stock so Ill keep it around, no classic Chinese here but more of a classic older vendor RY4 mix. there is a odd flavor with this one that floats on top the spicy, very strong and the best way to explain it is a peppermint and licorice mix, this RY4 is nothing new to me but the kick of over the top spice is and how it works well with the sweetness. the turn off on this juice is the tobacco base and it reminds me Copper Creek. I am not mad at this juice but the cash I paid for it is gone forever
passer,
From looking over the Wicked Vapor USA page of TheVaporPro's web site, it would appear that FlavorWest flavorings are used in many/most of the WVUSA tobacco blends. FlavorWest is far and away my least-regarded source for synthetic tobacco flavorings, much lousier (in my subjective opinion) than TPA/TFA, FlavourArt, or any of the Chinese flavor manufacturers (Dekang, Hangsen, etc.). FlavorWest sells some decent dessert and fruit flavorings, but their tobaccos are just not good, plain and simple.
In addition, I agree with you about CopperCreek. While CC makes many wonderful juices---including my all-time #1 favorite coffee eliquid (CopperCreek Coffee)---I feel that CC misses the boat completely with their tobacco blend juices, which (if I recall correctly) are in-house natural extracts. I know, I'm getting to be a real snob about tobacco concentrates. LOL. It's just that with more and more amazing NETs showing up these days (from GoodEJuice, Heather'sHeavenlyVapes, Ahlusion, and two upcoming entries from Alice-in-Vapeland, to go with the older standbys---Want2Vape, Vaperite, BackwoodsBrew, etc.), the standards bar for tobaccos is being raised significantly. By contrast, the not-so-wonderful NETs and synthetics seem infinitely worse now.
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