The "WeekEnder"

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mamu

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hmmm... ok here's my thoughts on does added resistance of the FT batt holders only affect the longevity of the batt (i.e., the batt cuts out at a higher unloaded voltage)......

IMO the answer is no... unnecessary resistance in a circuit affects more than just the batt's unloaded cutoff voltage (loaded cutoff voltage will always be the same - for the dna loaded voltage cutoff will always be 3.1v).

And here's why... resistance and current are inversely proportional (Ohm's Law) - unnecessary added resistance in the circuit makes it more difficult for current to flow (decreases the amount of current flowing over a given time period) - which may put stress on components as well as cause a lag in the converter's response time.

When resistance impedes current flow, there is not only a voltage sag under load, but also a waste of power. For example, 10mOhm resistance at 10A wastes 1W and drops voltage by 0.1v. 60mOhm resistance at 10A wastes 6W and drops voltage by 0.6v.

You're most likely not pulling 10A though - maybe around 4 or 5A - so 60mOhm resistance at 5A wastes 3W and drops voltage by 0.3v. Wasting 3W makes for a fairly inefficient system. And causing the batt to excessively sag under load stresses the batt, will degrade it or may make it become unstable, and will need to be replaced sooner.

You'll not see this at the output with a regulated mod though - you'll see it only on output if the resistance is severe enough. But the converter requires a certain amount of input current in order to output it - with impedance to current flow on the input, the converter won't be able to operate as efficiently.

We parallel fuses to decrease the fuses' resistance so it won't affect current flow as much and there we are talking about reducing by minor mOhm values. So 60mOhms (or whatever the FT batt holders are adding to the resistance of the circuit) seems like a lot to me. It's like using 28ga or 30ga wiring for the input instead of 20ga what with the restricted current flow.
 

bapgood

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I need to make a couple of corrections :oops:


Just an FYI the Kick2 actually outputs around 18 watts 16 watts. I found this out with my new meter. I talked to Evolv and they verified that it does output more than 15 watts. Saying they did it as a mechanical mod vdrop compensation measure. They took some of the mods with the worst vdrop and made sure they were getting 15w to the atty.

I will have to hook it back up to the meter and test again, but I'm pretty sure it was 18w+ 16w.

Someone must have spiked my juice :lol:....I was way off....retested and the highest I got was 16w output.



What I do know is that you want to stay away from stacking resistance or series resistance as iirc it multiplies adds the resistance in the circuit.

The total resistance of resistors in series is equal to the sum of their individual resistances
 

bapgood

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When resistance impedes current flow, there is not only a voltage sag under load, but also a waste of power. For example, 10mOhm resistance at 10A wastes 1W and drops voltage by 0.1v. 60mOhm resistance at 10A wastes 6W and drops voltage by 0.6v.

You're most likely not pulling 10A though - maybe around 4 or 5A - so 60mOhm resistance at 5A wastes 3W and drops voltage by 0.3v. Wasting 3W makes for a fairly inefficient system. And causing the batt to excessively sag under load stresses the batt, will degrade it or may make it become unstable, and will need to be replaced sooner.



Yes!!! This is exactly what I was going to look at....thanks Mamu!!!

For others wanting to play with numbers...There are lots of ohm's law online calculators out there....this is the one I use Online Conversion - Ohm's Law Calculator

I'm still going to do some testing and see how the two battery holders compare. As well as see if I can measure IR under load.


We need to talk Craig or someone to help us with a design to build a DIY battery load analyzer. I would love a cost efficient method to test our batteries and create those fancy graphs. I think something capable of 0-30a load would be about right.
 

mikepetro

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Hey, fairly new member here, been watching this thread closely as I'm putting together my own DNA 20 build and was wondering when the co-op is supposed to go down. I'm still not a verified member yet (but working towards it) and hoping I can make the cutoff.

Stay Tuned, I should know tomorrow after I speak with Evolv directly on the phone. They set up that date for me to call after reading my last email to them.
 

tiburonfirst

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Stay Tuned, I should know tomorrow after I speak with Evolv directly on the phone. They set up that date for me to call after reading my last email to them.


hmmm, that means we need to get going with recommendations for the odds and ends list ;) are you with me, bj? ;) also, bap needs to verify that buttons and switches chosen will fit into his shapeway design. does shapeway offer a quantity discount and what are their shipping costs?
 

BJ43

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hmmm, that means we need to get going with recommendations for the odds and ends list ;) are you with me, bj? ;) also, bap needs to verify that buttons and switches chosen will fit into his shapeway design. does shapeway offer a quantity discount and what are their shipping costs?

No switches needed on the Tibs, just buttons and baps said he would design them for shapeway to make them.

We need battery connecters and 510 connector. Don't think shapeway offers discounts, but we may save on individual shipping if we combine some other odds and ends. I would like to see some of the bottle caps for the larger bottles with the 14g and 16g blunt needles. The site mike sent me had $22 shipping minimum.;)
 

mamu

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I was able to solder the tiny caps and finished wiring my raptor 20 amp. Tested Russian at 1.3 ohms on it at 3.3v to 6.1v. Waiting for my lipo battery and a pretty 510 connector Mike recommended and stuff it all into the box.:)

Are you going to be adding a charging plug through the case to connect to an external lipo charger? Or are you going to be removing the batts from inside the case in order to charge?
 

BJ43

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Are you going to be adding a charging plug through the case to connect to an external lipo charger? Or are you going to be removing the batts from inside the case in order to charge?

Yes, I am going to mount the balancing cable so that I can plug in an extension and use my external charger.;) Thanks for all your help mamu.
 

mamu

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Yes, I am going to mount the balancing cable so that I can plug in an extension and use my external charger.;) Thanks for all your help mamu.

YW BJ!

And thanks for sharing your tips and techniques in the Just Hemp thread. My friend junque has been following your work with hemp and she tells me about your build and sends me your pics when we skype. She and bap sent me some hemp to try. Good karma this sharing thing. Very much appreciated.
 

shortyjacobs

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Hey Mike, have you measured the voltage on your twin NCR18650PDs after the DNA hits cutoff? I just did for the first time, and got 3.42V in each batt. Granted, this is with a 1.7 ohm coil at 19 watts, so the DNA is pushing 5.9 volts, which is a pretty hefty boost.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
 

mikepetro

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mikepetro

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Hey Mike, have you measured the voltage on your twin NCR18650PDs after the DNA hits cutoff? I just did for the first time, and got 3.42V in each batt. Granted, this is with a 1.7 ohm coil at 19 watts, so the DNA is pushing 5.9 volts, which is a pretty hefty boost.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

No, I havent. I usually dont allow it to get to the cut off point, only ever happened once. I generally plug it in when the bat gauge reads about 50%. Once that gauge starts dropping it drops fast. Actually, from what Bap has been measuring with regards to resistance of the bat holder, 3.42 sounds about right. The holder itself creates about a .3v voltage drop, so the DNA would read 3.1v when the bats are actually 3.4v.

I am scheming a big fat LiPo Mod for my first DNA30 and I am planning on installing test ports on it so I can read the voltage with a multimeter, both loaded and unloaded, without cracking open the case.
 

ZeD828

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I have a question a/b internal charging boards. I'm looking at this board to put in a mod - 5V micro USB 1A Lithium Battery 18650 Charging Board Charger Module LED TP4056. If it charges at 1A and all the wall-warts I have w/ a micro USB are rated at 500mA, do I need to source one that will output at 1A?
Thanks in advance for any input.
 
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