The Womper Woom OR You Might Be A Modwomper

[chopdoc]

I was wondering why the .5 ohm target but thinking on it, Lannie is using a .5 ohm coil now so they figure thats what they should build.

Honestly if you took a 5/6 wrap 28 ga kanthal coil and put it in there, you really wouldnt notice the difference between that and a .5 ohm pre built coil.

 

[coolerat]

LOL! I love that song! Wow, zooms me way back! Ah, thems were the days...

Thanks @coolerat for the advice on wire gauge. I'll get 24 and start with that so hopefully I won't have too much of a surprise the first time. Then I can fiddle later.

Boden, in my case, it's because all I know is "I have a coil with a .5 ohm resistance, and I like the vape at 30 watts." That's ALL I know! LOL! I know I (and maybe a lot of others) are overthinking it, but that's why I'm here, so I can learn from people like you. I know you're going to say I can get the same results from a different resistance at a different wattage, maybe with a different coil configuration, but I have to have a starting point. And my starting point is I like .5 ohms and 30 watts. I also like 1.8 ohms at 7.5 watts, but with the current coils I have for those tanks, I don't get the flavor and vapor I've come to enjoy. I'm still a beginner, I'm not ashamed to admit it.

Is that what you meant? Or did I totally misunderstand the point of your question? (See, THAT would be totally normal for me, too! LOL!)

~Lannie

Below is a picture of "a Lemo" thats getting shipped to "someone" tomorrow.

In it is a 24ga spaced coil at .6Ω. Was supposed to be .5 but I failed.

Anyway its hitting like a champ. Wicked with rayon and as you can see the chimney is drilled out. To be honest when I was playing with this tank I was never about to get a build this good. This is one SWEET hitting tank.

So what I'm gonna do is dump the tank and wash it. Rewick it with rayon and pack it up. The "new owner" will just need to wet the wick and fill and set to 30w and enjoy the vape of there life. The coil should last a year at least, 24ga is tough stuff. Prolly throw 50 feet of rayon in as I have afew feet.

 

[Lannie]

Oh, Coolerat, "someone" already has 500 feet of rayon! No worries there! And if that coil will last a year, then there's plenty of time to learn, eh?

No, I understand you perfectly.

It's pretty simple, with a mod that uses wattage the only thing that matters is how much surface area of wick you are covering. That is why we mesure heat flux in milliwatts of heat per millimeter squared. That is watts of heat spread over an area.

The first time I'd seen that phrase "heat flux in milliwatts of heat per millimeter squared" was when I clicked on the Steam Engine site and it was off over to the right and I had no clue what it was, but I figured it was how hot the coil would get.

If you made a one square inch heater generate ten watts of heat then made a second heater that is twice as big generate the same ten watts of heat, the smaller one inch heater would have a surface temperature that was twice as hot as the larger heater.

OK, I understand the concept. I'm just unfamiliar with the specifics of how it works with a coil. That's not right. I TOTALLY understand how the concept works with a coil, or with anything else, but... (see below)

We cant tell you what wire to use to replicate the 0.5 ohm coil you have because we dont know how much surface area that 30W is spread over.

... but I have no idea how to calculate the "surface area" of a coil of wire. Do you mean the actual physical surface area on the surface of the wire from beginning to end? Or the "average" surface area, as in it's 3 mm wide and 3 mm in diameter (my newbie rough example)? So in other words, the surface of a cylinder .3 mm in diameter and 10 inches long (if that was the total length of the wire, again, I'm just guessing here, so don't pick on me! LOL!) or the surface area of a cylinder 3 mm wide and 3 mm long? (I know you're smacking your forehead and shaking your head, and I'm sorry that I made you do that, but I don't know what you meant...)

Can you even IMAGINE what my poor father went through for all those years as I was growing up? And believe it or not, I actually do have a genius IQ (if you put any stock into that kind of thing). Sometimes it just doesn't show much. Sorry...

~Lannie

 

[coolerat]

I had a couplr Lemos and now I have none so all the extra screws and seals are in the box. Also a couple pieces of wire which might be 24ga. Prolly enough wire for 10 coils so 10 years

 

[coolerat]

Oh, Coolerat, "someone" already has 500 feet of rayon! No worries there! And if that coil will last a year, then there's plenty of time to learn, eh?



The first time I'd seen that phrase "heat flux in milliwatts of heat per millimeter squared" was when I clicked on the Steam Engine site and it was off over to the right and I had no clue what it was, but I figured it was how hot the coil would get.



OK, I understand the concept. I'm just unfamiliar with the specifics of how it works with a coil. That's not right. I TOTALLY understand how the concept works with a coil, or with anything else, but... (see below)



... but I have no idea how to calculate the "surface area" of a coil of wire. Do you mean the actual physical surface area on the surface of the wire from beginning to end? Or the "average" surface area, as in it's 3 mm wide and 3 mm in diameter (my newbie rough example)? So in other words, the surface of a cylinder .3 mm in diameter and 10 inches long (if that was the total length of the wire, again, I'm just guessing here, so don't pick on me! LOL!) or the surface area of a cylinder 3 mm wide and 3 mm long? (I know you're smacking your forehead and shaking your head, and I'm sorry that I made you do that, but I don't know what you meant...)

Can you even IMAGINE what my poor father went through for all those years as I was growing up? And believe it or not, I actually do have a genius IQ (if you put any stock into that kind of thing). Sometimes it just doesn't show much. Sorry...

~Lannie

In SE set up the ohms you want and then just change wire gauge and it with change the heat flux "live".

Another thing I do just because it amuses me is stay with builds that put me in the 3.8-4.0v range. Thats the native voltage of a battery. I don't think it does anything magic it just amuses me.

You will find that .5Ω at 30w gets you about 3.8v. Screw one of my tanks on a mech and you won't get any surprises.

 

[Boden]

Oh, Coolerat, "someone" already has 500 feet of rayon! No worries there! And if that coil will last a year, then there's plenty of time to learn, eh?



The first time I'd seen that phrase "heat flux in milliwatts of heat per millimeter squared" was when I clicked on the Steam Engine site and it was off over to the right and I had no clue what it was, but I figured it was how hot the coil would get.



OK, I understand the concept. I'm just unfamiliar with the specifics of how it works with a coil. That's not right. I TOTALLY understand how the concept works with a coil, or with anything else, but... (see below)



... but I have no idea how to calculate the "surface area" of a coil of wire. Do you mean the actual physical surface area on the surface of the wire from beginning to end? Or the "average" surface area, as in it's 3 mm wide and 3 mm in diameter (my newbie rough example)? So in other words, the surface of a cylinder .3 mm in diameter and 10 inches long (if that was the total length of the wire, again, I'm just guessing here, so don't pick on me! LOL!) or the surface area of a cylinder 3 mm wide and 3 mm long? (I know you're smacking your forehead and shaking your head, and I'm sorry that I made you do that, but I don't know what you meant...)

Can you even IMAGINE what my poor father went through for all those years as I was growing up? And believe it or not, I actually do have a genius IQ (if you put any stock into that kind of thing). Sometimes it just doesn't show much. Sorry...

~Lannie

First: stop apologizing

Good

Second; I tried to type this several times and it's just not working because I'm using a stupid phone so I will requote this question in about an hour and a half when I'm at a computer.

 

[coolerat]

Been using my Provari alot the past two days.

18490 batteries. Pretty new and lightly used. 1200 MaH. AW brand

About 15w.

Battery life is extremely poor. I would expect half the MaH at half the wattage to be equal to my normal mods at 30w with twice the Mah.

Half the life I could live with I suppose.

But I'm getting maybe a quarter the life.

Very annoying. Think I'm gonna take that tootle tank and run it on the D2 for a couple days to see what that does.

 

[MikeyConti]

The only times I really try to make a coil at a preferred resistance is with some of my Kayfuns, usually 1.5ohm.. Because some of my Box Mods dont have the buck feature, so the ohms of the coil have to be high to even tootle puff with it (IPV MINI 2) as an example.
When building for Mechs, I try to aim at a certain resistance for what I want out of it..
Other than that, and on most of my VW/VV mods it doesn't matter, as you say, I can adjust to whatever I want..

I think some people are just set in their ways with coil building.. idk

 

[Lannie]

I think some people are just set in their ways with coil building.. idk

Not me! I'm clay! Mold me!

My problem is right now I'm trying to listen to everybody, and I gets a little confused. But I'll figure it out!

Boden, I'm shutting down for the night, gonna eat some dinner and relax in front of the boob tube for a bit, but I'll be back first thing in the morning.

I'm starting to get the general gist of this now. Not well enough to explain verbally, but there's a vague shape forming in the amorphous cloud, if you know what I mean. I'm excited to learn more! Hey, I'm a willing pupil, how many times do THOSE come along, right? LOL!

~Lannie

 

[chopdoc]

The only times I really try to make a coil at a preferred resistance is with some of my Kayfuns, usually 1.5ohm.. Because some of my Box Mods dont have the buck feature, so the ohms of the coil have to be high to even tootle puff with it (IPV MINI 2) as an example.
When building for Mechs, I try to aim at a certain resistance for what I want out of it..
Other than that, and on most of my VW/VV mods it doesn't matter, as you say, I can adjust to whatever I want..

I think some people are just set in their ways with coil building.. idk

I use steam engine to see how hard I am pulling on my batteries and thats about it. Even on a regulated mod with a stock coil, .15 ohm at 90 watts is about as hard as i want to push my batteries. But your right, some of us are set in our ways with our coils. If its not broke, dont fix it

 

[chopdoc]

I mixed up 340 ml of my vanilla custard concoction last night and been giving it some cycles in the untlrasonic cleaner with some good shakes between cycles. Last night it was a light yellowish color and now its becoming a deep amber color. Thats how well ultrasonic cleaners work for DIY Normally it would take a couple weeks to steep to this color.

 

[Boden]

The first time I'd seen that phrase "heat flux in milliwatts of heat per millimeter squared" was when I clicked on the Steam Engine site and it was off over to the right and I had no clue what it was, but I figured it was how hot the coil would get.

How hot each mm^2 of coil gets.

... but I have no idea how to calculate the "surface area" of a coil of wire. Do you mean the actual physical surface area on the surface of the wire from beginning to end? Or the "average" surface area, as in it's 3 mm wide and 3 mm in diameter? So in other words, the surface of a cylinder .3 mm in diameter and 10 inches long if that was the total length of the wire, or the surface area of a cylinder 3 mm wide and 3 mm long?

Note: This is a relative calculation that is more accurate over the range of gauges than what Steam Engine does. Steam Engine does not calculate heat flux correctly as it calculates heat radiated into free air using a straight length of wire. We are not radiating heat into free air using straight wire.

Edit: I forgot to add 1 wire diameter to the ID when calculating the cylinder lateral surface area.

An example: Lets use 26 gauge wire (0.4mm diameter).

Ok, Start with a contact coil 4mm wide with a Inside Diameter (ID) of 3mm and calculate the lateral surface area of the cylinder using 3mm as the diameter and 4mm width. (A = 2πrh or A = 2π x 1.5 x 4) You get 37.7mm^2.

Make it radiate 30W of heat and you get: 30 / 37.7mm^2 = 0.795W per mm^2 or 795mW/mm^2

Now a 26 gauge (0.4mm) coil 4mm wide means 10 wraps.

If I want to calculate the surface area of a spaced coil with 5 wraps that is 4mm wide I only use the number of wraps. So 5 x 0.4mm = 2mm

Calculate the lateral surface area. You get 18.85mm^2. Make it radiate 30W of heat and you get 30 / 18.85mm^2 = 1.59W per mm^2 or 1590mW/mm^2

 

[Robert Cromwell]

I'll tell you a little secret, shhhh, most of the things builders bicker about don't really matter very much at all.

Resistance only matters if you are using a mech mod. Wicking material, as long as its not way too tight or way too loose it will work. Coils, make em round and connect both ends, they make heat.

This is sooooo much simpler than people make it.

Ask all the questions you want. There are no dumb questions, just dumb people who don't ask.

If you make a square coil will the corners run hot from the electrons having trouble turning the corner?

 

[Robert Cromwell]

The only times I really try to make a coil at a preferred resistance is with some of my Kayfuns, usually 1.5ohm.. Because some of my Box Mods dont have the buck feature, so the ohms of the coil have to be high to even tootle puff with it (IPV MINI 2) as an example.
When building for Mechs, I try to aim at a certain resistance for what I want out of it..
Other than that, and on most of my VW/VV mods it doesn't matter, as you say, I can adjust to whatever I want..

I think some people are just set in their ways with coil building.. idk

I just look for something that works for me and once I find it that is what I use. be it coils, cars or women.

 

[Ablonz]

My guess is its probably 24g in those 0.5 ohm heads, 20 to 30W will give a heat flux from 177 to 265.
As 26g would be a very toasty vape at 0.5 ohms and 20 to 30W.

STM is Subtank Mini. With making coils I find that 26 gauge is good size to work with IMO as I make mine twisted and at about .7 ohms. here is a good tool for making coils. Steam Engine | free vaping calculators Just input the info and what you are looking for as an end result.

Yes it would which is why I stated .7 ohms I like cooler vapes. When I exhale onto my arm, it's Almost like A/C

 

[Ablonz]

What is up with the fixation on resistance when using regulated mods?

I am perplexed

This is a general question not aimed at anyone.

I do that for the flavors I get with my DIY vape. I found out what taste good at the wattage I had it set too and have been way to busy and lazy at the same time to find that same spot on a higher or lower ohm coil. I am sure I could figure that out but only so many hours in a day.

 

[chopdoc]

How hot each mm^2 of coil gets.





Note: This is a relative calculation that is more accurate over the range of gauges than what Steam Engine does. Steam Engine does not calculate heat flux correctly as it calculates heat radiated into free air using a straight length of wire. We are not radiating heat into free air using straight wire.


An example. Lets use 26 gauge wire (0.4mm diameter).

Ok, Start with a contact coil 4mm wide with a Inside Diameter (ID) of 3mm and calculate the lateral surface area of the cylinder using 3mm as the diameter and 4mm width. (A = 2πrh or A = 2π x 1.5 x 4) You get 37.7mm^2.

Make it radiate 30W of heat and you get: 30 / 37.7mm^2 = 0.795W per mm^2 or 795mW/mm^2

Now a 26 gauge (0.4mm) coil 4mm wide means 10 wraps.

If I want to calculate the surface area of a spaced coil with 5 wraps that is 4mm wide I only use the number of wraps. So 5 x 0.4mm = 2mm

Calculate the lateral surface area. You get 18.85mm^2. Make it radiate 30W of heat and you get 30 / 18.85mm^2 = 1.59W per mm^2 or 1590mW/mm^2

Ok Boden, donuts for you, they are on the rack....

While your in there, if ya dont mind, make sure mike flushed

 

[Lannie]

I mixed up 340 ml of my vanilla custard concoction last night and been giving it some cycles in the untlrasonic cleaner with some good shakes between cycles. Last night it was a light yellowish color and now its becoming a deep amber color. Thats how well ultrasonic cleaners work for DIY Normally it would take a couple weeks to steep to this color.

I made some strawberry cheesecake flavor 13 days ago, ran it through 35 cycles (ours does 8-minute cycles only) over a period of two days, and I still couldn't smell any hint of cheesecake. The recipe said it needed to sit for 3 or 4 weeks, and after all that shaking and vibrating, two weeks later, I'm starting to smell *something* good. I had a tank of it a few days ago, and it tastes really good, but I still don't get cheesecake flavor. I used Capella's NY cheesecake, which from everything I've read about cheesecake flavors, is one of, if not THE, best one there is. So what am I missing with the ultrasonic cleaner? I used hot tap water and refreshed it when it got tepid. (Our "hot" is only 115F right out of the tap, by the time it gets poured into the US cleaner, it's prolly 108F to 110F.) I don't think I "cooked" the flavor out of it. I'm doing my best to let the rest of the bottle sit for at least another week or two before trying it again.

How hot each mm^2 of coil gets.


Note: This is a relative calculation that is more accurate over the range of gauges than what Steam Engine does. Steam Engine does not calculate heat flux correctly as it calculates heat radiated into free air using a straight length of wire. We are not radiating heat into free air using straight wire.


An example: Lets use 26 gauge wire (0.4mm diameter).

Ok, Start with a contact coil 4mm wide with a Inside Diameter (ID) of 3mm and calculate the lateral surface area of the cylinder using 3mm as the diameter and 4mm width. (A = 2πrh or A = 2π x 1.5 x 4) You get 37.7mm^2.

Make it radiate 30W of heat and you get: 30 / 37.7mm^2 = 0.795W per mm^2 or 795mW/mm^2

Now a 26 gauge (0.4mm) coil 4mm wide means 10 wraps.

If I want to calculate the surface area of a spaced coil with 5 wraps that is 4mm wide I only use the number of wraps. So 5 x 0.4mm = 2mm

Calculate the lateral surface area. You get 18.85mm^2. Make it radiate 30W of heat and you get 30 / 18.85mm^2 = 1.59W per mm^2 or 1590mW/mm^2

Ooooh, there we go! Cold, hard facts! Thank you! I haven't had enough coffee yet to fully comprehend those equations (and math actually gives me a rash), but once I DO have an equation, I can work it out. So that will help me greatly!

Enjoy your donuts!

~Lannie

 

[Boden]

How hot each mm^2 of coil gets.





Note: This is a relative calculation that is more accurate over the range of gauges than what Steam Engine does. Steam Engine does not calculate heat flux correctly as it calculates heat radiated into free air using a straight length of wire. We are not radiating heat into free air using straight wire.


An example: Lets use 26 gauge wire (0.4mm diameter).

Ok, Start with a contact coil 4mm wide with a Inside Diameter (ID) of 3mm and calculate the lateral surface area of the cylinder using 3mm as the diameter and 4mm width. (A = 2πrh or A = 2π x 1.5 x 4) You get 37.7mm^2.

Make it radiate 30W of heat and you get: 30 / 37.7mm^2 = 0.795W per mm^2 or 795mW/mm^2

Now a 26 gauge (0.4mm) coil 4mm wide means 10 wraps.

If I want to calculate the surface area of a spaced coil with 5 wraps that is 4mm wide I only use the number of wraps. So 5 x 0.4mm = 2mm

Calculate the lateral surface area. You get 18.85mm^2. Make it radiate 30W of heat and you get 30 / 18.85mm^2 = 1.59W per mm^2 or 1590mW/mm^2

This is why I shouldn't try to write physics equations on 4 hours of sleep and 20 hours of work.

I forgot to add one diameter of the wire to the ID when calculating the cylinder lateral surface area.

I'll write up a corrected formula once I've had breakfast.

 

[Lannie]

Oh, CRAP, this is physics? I don't do physics! Oh, wait, yes I do. When I trip on a frozen cow plop, I fall down, go boom.

OK, I'm going for more coffee now...