This pisses me off!!
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They are now doing human trials on a breathing treatment of cyclosporine in a PG carrier for lung transplant patients which is looking very promising. If you want to get down to brass tacks, there is less safety information on people breathing VG than there is PG. Just because it's natural, doesn't necessarily mean it's good for you, take anthrax for example. 
I just sent an email which I posted below. I think we all need to check back in on this web site over the next week or so. If they haven't removed these intentionally misleading statements, we need to start new threads here on ECF warning others to stay clear of this vender and encouraging more ECF members to send them emails requesting that they remove these misleading statements from their site:
"Your statement about PG in eliquid is an intentional scare tactic which is misleading in it's intention and harmful to the vaping Community. The thousands of us on ECF and CASAA who are fighting for vaping to not be banned and/or severely restricted by the FDA are requesting that you delete these statements from your web site and any advertizing.
ECF & CASAA has a huge audience in the Vaping Community and on the internet. Please retract these inflammatory statements or else your business will likely be receiving hundreds of negative reviews on the ECF forum.
None of us who vape can afford to give those who want vaping severely restricted misleading ammunition to use against us.
Thank you"
"Your statement about PG in eliquid is an intentional scare tactic which is misleading in it's intention and harmful to the vaping Community. The thousands of us on ECF and CASAA who are fighting for vaping to not be banned and/or severely restricted by the FDA are requesting that you delete these statements from your web site and any advertizing.
ECF & CASAA has a huge audience in the Vaping Community and on the internet. Please retract these inflammatory statements or else your business will likely be receiving hundreds of negative reviews on the ECF forum.
None of us who vape can afford to give those who want vaping severely restricted misleading ammunition to use against us.
Thank you"
you said it better than me
I just told them that those of us over here on ECF talk. A LOT.
I personally think had this been my local vape shop, I would have first tried to handle it in a more personal and friendly way.
While we cannot afford statements that may give ANTZ ammunition against vaping, I really don't want to start an internet campaign against any vaping vendor without giving them a heads up first.
Seems to me this outfit might have been informed first. I try to treat people in the same way I would like to be treated, don't you?
Giving vaping B&Ms a bad name, or hurting their reputation really doesn't "help" vaping either, does it?
That's just the way I would have handled it, IMHO. I tend to have good relationships with the merchants in my region, you never know when you might need them, and I do want to see small businesses flourish, rather than be overwhelmed with a flood of internet emails and bad press.
Really think the response is out of proportion. Getting a reputation as an "angry mob" is not one that i really want to be be part of.
While we cannot afford statements that may give ANTZ ammunition against vaping, I really don't want to start an internet campaign against any vaping vendor without giving them a heads up first.
Seems to me this outfit might have been informed first. I try to treat people in the same way I would like to be treated, don't you?
Giving vaping B&Ms a bad name, or hurting their reputation really doesn't "help" vaping either, does it?
That's just the way I would have handled it, IMHO. I tend to have good relationships with the merchants in my region, you never know when you might need them, and I do want to see small businesses flourish, rather than be overwhelmed with a flood of internet emails and bad press.
Really think the response is out of proportion. Getting a reputation as an "angry mob" is not one that i really want to be be part of.
I don't think it's great for the community, but nothing they are saying is false.
There are a lot of people who choose to live, eat, breath as organic as they can... Many of these people choose to not ingest chemical derivatives even if they aren't harmful.
I'm not big on scare tactics, but that is somewhat relative. Scare tactics are all around you for all types of purposes and agenda's. If you are self educated, then they shouldn't affect you, if you are not, then it probably doesn't matter anyways as your susceptible to everyone's opinion.
Personally I feel it's ok to choose not to purchase from said person if you don't believe in their practices, but I also choose not to judge said person in a public forum. I sure know I'm not ready to be judged.
It was probably not done with as much evil intent as you make it sound, but rather a personal opinion on ingesting anything not organic. A lot of people have the same opinion.
Personally, I don't like this type of advertising, and it's obvious what they're implying is wrong, but it's not out of line of other types of advertising around, and business is one competitive B@#$h nowadays.
The lesson here and everywhere else is to stay informed and make decisions based on your own research, then advertising doesn't effect you.
I don't feel sorry for anyone who walks around blindly accepting their reality based on what others feed them. They're not harming the individuals that choose to vape 100%vg.
Again, I wouldn't advertise in this manner, and I don't think it helps the vape community as a whole personally, but I hardly believe they're a part of the evil empire either.
There are a lot of people who choose to live, eat, breath as organic as they can... Many of these people choose to not ingest chemical derivatives even if they aren't harmful.
I'm not big on scare tactics, but that is somewhat relative. Scare tactics are all around you for all types of purposes and agenda's. If you are self educated, then they shouldn't affect you, if you are not, then it probably doesn't matter anyways as your susceptible to everyone's opinion.
Personally I feel it's ok to choose not to purchase from said person if you don't believe in their practices, but I also choose not to judge said person in a public forum. I sure know I'm not ready to be judged.
It was probably not done with as much evil intent as you make it sound, but rather a personal opinion on ingesting anything not organic. A lot of people have the same opinion.
Personally, I don't like this type of advertising, and it's obvious what they're implying is wrong, but it's not out of line of other types of advertising around, and business is one competitive B@#$h nowadays.
The lesson here and everywhere else is to stay informed and make decisions based on your own research, then advertising doesn't effect you.
I don't feel sorry for anyone who walks around blindly accepting their reality based on what others feed them. They're not harming the individuals that choose to vape 100%vg.
Again, I wouldn't advertise in this manner, and I don't think it helps the vape community as a whole personally, but I hardly believe they're a part of the evil empire either.
You could also point this out the the National Vapers Club; National Vapers Club - Meeting Place for lovers of e-cigarettes, personal vaporizers and all things "fog" producing! They're based out of NYC and do a lot of advocacy. Spike would straighten them out.
You make a good point, but I think it's fair to say that if they retract the statement next time they open, no long term harm will be done, and this will soon be forgotten.
The statement can *only* be construed as deliberately misleading - without context, it is a scare tactic. It perpetuates a commonly held 'urban legend' like semi-truth, which can only do harm to vaping's reputation (even if only in poorly informed discourse). Maybe they aren't the ones doing the deliberate misleading, maybe they have been misled. If so, this online lynch-mob will probably lead them to educate themselves rather quickly.
If they refuse to retract the statement, I guess they deserve the 'publicity' they get. And a few public shamings in the vaping business world will probably lead other new businesses to think very carefully before using such zero-sum tactics.
ETA - having said that, I do hope the emails sent have been proportionate. Telling people something they've said is silly and will harm their reputation is one thing, but I do know these things can get very out of hand, and people can write some very rude and aggressive things when they're safely hidden behind a keyboard.
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Just sent them an email ... copy of email is below
We noticed you guys have a lot of "must have" items. Would you be willing to toss in some free tasty ejuice if we bought some Mattress Pads.
Grandpa has a bed wetting problem and we heard that your Mattress Pads are safer than any Mattress Pad in the eCigarette business.
Please do get back to us ASAP ... Grandpa is getting cranky sleeping on an old tarp.
I believe that is what most of us are suggesting. Many of us have sent them emails asking that they retract the statement on their web site. A week is more then enough time for them to follow through. If they ignore our respectful requests, then as a Vaping Community, who polices ourselves to help avoid it being done by our nanny state government, we need to take stronger action to get them to change their inflammatory advertizing practice.
Personally, I believe they know full well that their statement is BS and they just don't care. But I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for a reasonable amount of time.
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It sounds like you are suggesting it should just be ignored regardless of the harm it can do the vaping community in this critical time with impending restrictions.
It's all about you I guess....
You'll be the same group of people that complain that there are not enough brick and mortar vape shops around after you've run them all out of business.
I sure hope you're fine with the effect you may have had on this business and these people's livelihoods... again, not that I agree with their method of advertising, but friendly conversation about this (education) would probably be a better route.
If you believe so strongly about any of these causes, why don't you educate (it's in your sig), rather than separate. Who are you to be judge and jury, let the community make their own decisions about this store.
While we're at it,
The PG issue is not as clear cut as you like to make it. The PG that most of you consider to be this perfectly safe item used for inhalers and this and that is not the same PG found in your vaping juice.... I've made a conscious decision to vape because it's the lesser of two evils, but lets be real, the PG found in most of the items you like to quote (medical items) are based on Dow's Optim synthetic PG... all other glycerine products are derived as by-products of soap and oleochemicals production.
The PG we as a community vape is not the same as used in the pharmaceutical industry and is not suitable for such because of impurities.
I'm not saying the PG we vape is the worst thing since cigarettes, but the advertisement from this B&M store is not the end of the world, and the PG you vape is not as good as you lead members to believe... Kind of the reverse type of advertising that your complaining about...
You are doing the exact opposite of them by quoting study's that use the synthetic PG and saying we're all good.
Relax a little, and instead of jumping around and bashing one another, let's start more dialog... Maybe they do need more information about PG, or maybe they know more than you!
Vape on,
-- come to the dark side, we have cookies
Now by no means am I stating any of the following are good/bad or otherwise anything for you, I'm just stating some facts, you can do the research for yourself.
Non Synthetic Glycerine or PG (the stuff that we use in our juice) can and usually does contain some the following:
Oxidation products (Aldehydes, ketones)
Allergen's, pesticide residue's and aflatoxin concerns.
Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy (BSE)
Transmissible Spongiform Encephalopathy (TSE)
Genetically Modified Organism's (GMO)
Not all PG contains all of the above, but what most people don't realize (especially those sensitive to PG) is that it's these ingredients that they are sensitive too.
The same people that have reactions to PG do not have reactions with the Optim PG which is why it's used for medical grade delivery systems.
Traditional PG (the stuff we use) or non-synthetic PG is traditionally very hard to keep consistent.... Natural source-based products are prone to variability (season to season apparently), which means it's hard to design a reliable process for cleaning them up.
Again, It's definitely better than smoking IMO (<--- key factor here IMO), but to someone who leads a very organic lifestyle, the above can be a no no.
Non Synthetic Glycerine or PG (the stuff that we use in our juice) can and usually does contain some the following:
Oxidation products (Aldehydes, ketones)
Allergen's, pesticide residue's and aflatoxin concerns.
Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy (BSE)
Transmissible Spongiform Encephalopathy (TSE)
Genetically Modified Organism's (GMO)
Not all PG contains all of the above, but what most people don't realize (especially those sensitive to PG) is that it's these ingredients that they are sensitive too.
The same people that have reactions to PG do not have reactions with the Optim PG which is why it's used for medical grade delivery systems.
Traditional PG (the stuff we use) or non-synthetic PG is traditionally very hard to keep consistent.... Natural source-based products are prone to variability (season to season apparently), which means it's hard to design a reliable process for cleaning them up.
Again, It's definitely better than smoking IMO (<--- key factor here IMO), but to someone who leads a very organic lifestyle, the above can be a no no.
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I'm gonna have to ask you for a source for that.
BSE is a disease, TSE is a category of diseases.
This is a bit like me claiming that Mars bars have housemaid's knee as an ingredient.
BSE is a disease, TSE is a category of diseases.
This is a bit like me claiming that Mars bars have housemaid's knee as an ingredient.
I never said that, I'm just trying to talk to a few that seem like they're holding pitchforks about to raze the building to the ground.
"Here at Vape Wright we are in an industry known for selling people poison. Please don't hold that against us..."
Misleading with knowledge is guilt imo, its the same as a prosecutor holding back facts to a defense(happens a lot) that person should either be given the time they sought or if its a business be extinguished.
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