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Time lapse steep - change of colour

Discussion in 'DIY E-Liquid' started by Old Greybeard, Nov 6, 2018.

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  1. Old Greybeard

    Old Greybeard Super Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 31, 2018
    Cumbria
    I thought it would be a good idea to photographically document the colour change of my latest ejuice steeping. In theory, this batch should go from clear to a nice orange-brown. Or not as the case may be.

    The recipe is Vaping with Vic's famous peach custard, with FW rather than TFA vanilla custard as I didn't have any, and Lucemill's 18mg PG nicotine. All the other ingredients and proportions are identical to the recipe. The mix was aerated for 5 minutes on the magnetic stirrer at room temperature.

    How often would folks like me to add photos? It will probably take at least 2-3 weeks to fester properly. It won't be totally scientific, but I will use the same lighting conditions, exposure etc. as best I can.
     

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  2. Old Greybeard

    Old Greybeard Super Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 31, 2018
    Cumbria
    Juice is now clear and has taken on a slightly orange tint. Now smells peachy, rather than artificial/chemically.
     

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  3. Sugar_and_Spice

    Sugar_and_Spice ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Sep 11, 2010
    between here and there
    May I make a suggestion? It may be better to wait to add your nic in the bottle until after the magnetic stirring is done and the mix has had a chance to release all of those bubbles. Not long certainly no more than a couple of hours. The reason is that if the nic is included with the stirring that introduces more air into it and therefore may decrease it potency a bit sooner than otherwise would occur. Just a suggestion, but that is my thinking on it.

    Other than that it looks good.

    :)
     
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  4. Old Greybeard

    Old Greybeard Super Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 31, 2018
    Cumbria
    Thanks @Sugar_and_Spice, I'm not currently too worried about any reduction in nic potency, I'd far rather lose a few mg than get a harsh throat hit. I tend to lean towards airy, warm DTL vapes with lots of VG.

    I have made a few batches that were manually shaken (some more violently than others), but I couldn't really tell the difference nor found the need to chain vape to boost my nic levels. That said, I currently vape 6mg, if I reduced it to 3, beating the nicotine senseless would not be such a good method.

    Your right though, I really should add it later but I would then have to get my head round re-calculating what my maintenance dose is :eek:.
     
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  5. Letitia

    Letitia Citrus Junkie ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 2, 2017
    West Frankfort, IL
    Why would you need to calculate again? Simply don't add nic until you're finished stirring. Add nic, shake and steep. I always add my nic while mixing and use a hand mixer to blend. Bottle, cap it, and forget about it for awhile.
     
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  6. Old Greybeard

    Old Greybeard Super Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 31, 2018
    Cumbria
    I've been very, very naughty and whipping the potency out of my nicotine, so the mg hit I get now (and am happy with) is less than if I add nic afterwards.

    Exactly how much less, I wouldn't like to guess :blush:.
     
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  7. Letitia

    Letitia Citrus Junkie ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 2, 2017
    West Frankfort, IL
    I would surmise the difference in potency is negligible. Seriously doubt you would notice any change.
     
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  8. IDJoel

    IDJoel Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 20, 2015
    Boise, ID
    Oxidizing nicotine is one way to increase throat hit/harshness. Just something to consider. :)
     
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  9. Vapedog

    Vapedog Super Member

    Oct 28, 2018
    Sorry, but I'm a bit confused reading this thread. How exactly is the nicotine level getting reduced?
    For example you make a juice batch and now or later add say 3mg nic. So whats heppening that reduces it?
     
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  10. IDJoel

    IDJoel Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 20, 2015
    Boise, ID
    Speaking in very general terms; nicotine (especially in freebase form... "regular" nicotine concentrate, to us DIYers), as it oxidizes, looses its potency.

    I have only seen anecdotal home experiments reported in the forums (vs. controlled laboratory experiments) for the most part. But, the results seem to indicate that the reduction is rather slow and minimal. in other words; it takes a lot of oxidation, over a long period of time, to have a significant impact on nicotine potency.

    The greater impact of oxidation (at least; in my mind); seems to be a change/increase, to harshness/throat hit and taste (bringing out more of the nicotine's own unique flavor... which can vary source to source). But, again, evidence appears to be mostly anecdotal.

    To me, the real bottom line is; if one likes the results, from any mixing process(es) one chooses to use, then that is the right choice for that individual. Conversely, if one is not satisfied, considering alternatives is only prudent. I am extremely reluctant to say, that there is only one "right" way, for all DIYers to mix. :)


    And... since I seem to have stepped up onto my soapbox, yet again:facepalm:... I will offer one more item as food for thought. Something else aeration can be responsible for. And, that is, flavor loss.

    Flavors come come from all sorts of various molecules, and chemical compounds. Some of these are what chemistry defines as "volatile." Volatile simply means that these molecules easily evaporate at room temperature. As they evaporate, we loose any benefit they may add, to our perceived taste/flavor profile. When we excessively aerate a mix; we can be accelerating this evaporation, and therefore, flavor loss.

    Now, having said that; not all flavor concentrates have the same amount of volatile flavor compounds. Some, like most dairies and some tobaccos, seem to have little to no volatiles to them, and seem to be impervious to flavor loss. Others, like many fruits and florals, have quite a few, and can quickly disappear almost completely.

    As my general rule of thumb, and completely unscientific; I try to use my nose as a guide. The more aromatic a concentrate is, the more likely it has a significant amount of volatiles in it. So, I try to aerate it less.

    Aeration is not the only cause of flavor loss. Any extended exposure to air will also contribute. Too much airspace in a storage bottle. Highly permeable materials, like plastics (some more than others), and especially rubbers (like the squeeze bulbs, and seals, found on eye-dropper caps), can contribute to flavor loss.

    Adding heat, increases/accelerates volatility, and can speed up flavor loss (especially in open containers).

    Though again, I would temper this by saying; if it is working for you, don't worry about it. However, if you are getting unsatisfactory results, or feel like your are using way more flavoring than you think you should be needing... then, look at your current mixing methods, and consider trying something else.:)


    This all, is just my opinion; based mostly on my own personal experience. So, please, experiment for yourself. And remember; "your mileage may vary.":D
     
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  11. Vapedog

    Vapedog Super Member

    Oct 28, 2018
    Great info there and, yes, good food for thought. Thanks for that. :thumbs:
     
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  12. Alter

    Alter Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 2, 2013
    BC Canada
    Building a DIY magnetic mixer was one of the first things I did when I started DIY several years back. I have since built a new one that has a small heating pad and a temperature unit so I can warm up the juice to 100F to marry the flavors more efficiently. My usual mixer mixing time is bout a hour, takes @20 minutes to get 100mls juice to 100F.
    I do believe that adding too much air either frothing, shaking or mixing will degrade the nic along with dissipating some of the flavor. I've always mixed the juice without the nic then added it the next day after the bubbles have dissipated. One doesn't need a vortex to mix juice...just shine a light into the mix.
    In winter I first heat up the VG by itself then add the other ingredients. Its cool down in the basement and VG becomes very uncooperative.
     
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  13. Old Greybeard

    Old Greybeard Super Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 31, 2018
    Cumbria
    Thanks everyone for your comments and feedback. The general consensus seems to be that over-aerating is probably not best practice, although I haven't managed to have any truly major disasters doing it - yet. One juice was pretty yuk, and I haven't had the courage to go back and taste it again. The other "so-so's" have improved with a 6 week steep, which tallies with the avg % of certain flavourings used. In other words, I was using far too much of a certain flavourings (TFA orange cream, chocolate and coffee in this instance) and the longer steep has blunted the flavouring down to tolerable levels.

    Most of these samples were 10ml's, so they were not whisked. Which seems to support the hypothesis that gentle mixing is preferred to retain the full spectrum of flavour, as none of the whisked samples can be considered overpowering. Or maybe I'm just lucky so far.

    I'm glad I put a speed controller on it now.

    IMG_6995.JPG
     
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  14. Steamix

    Steamix Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 21, 2013
    Vapistan


    Best proof that e-liquids are a bit like wine: Some are good to consume right away, some get better with ageing.
    Eventually, they peak out and quality/flavour/taste begins to deterioate.
    Putting effort into 'homogenizing' your liquid early on should keep it 'stable' for a longer time.
    Like wine, store in cool dark place :)

    Like wine, you could auction an expensive bottle, get a divinw tongue tickler or end up with a very expensive bottle of vinegar.

    Luckily, liquids cost far less than wine ...
     
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  15. DaveP

    DaveP PV Master & Musician ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 22, 2010
    Central GA
    I just use the drink stirrer on new mixes and wait. Color begins to appear over several days after stirring and the juice begins to develop flavor. Waiting isn't really an issue. I vape unflavored more than flavored, anyway. I always have 5 to 10 partial bottles of steeped juice for backup unless I happen to get lazy and fail to mix new ones. :)

    I apparently like lower flavor percentage than most. A hint of flavor is sufficient.

    https://www.amazon.com/Fit-Fresh-Portable-Drink-Formula/dp/B000FNH01E/ref=sr_1_16?ie=UTF8&qid=1541680573&sr=8-16&keywords=drink+stirrer
     
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  16. asmcriminal

    asmcriminal Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 15, 2010
    cali
    Why would you document this.What differences does it make?
     
  17. Letitia

    Letitia Citrus Junkie ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 2, 2017
    West Frankfort, IL
    Taste, degradation, and just cause it's an interesting subject to many vapers.
     
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  18. Old Greybeard

    Old Greybeard Super Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 31, 2018
    Cumbria
    Tonights sample.
     

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  19. DaveP

    DaveP PV Master & Musician ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 22, 2010
    Central GA
    Because there's 250,000 vapers of all experience levels on ECF, many of whom will find it informative. Even more will see it if they use pertinent search terms in their Google search query.
     
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  20. asmcriminal

    asmcriminal Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 15, 2010
    cali
    I don't understand how it can be informative.
     
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