I will keep on dry burning coils, because it is not something "unnecessary" for me. It is something essential. Dr. F. is a respectable cardiologist and he is doing a lot for us vapers. But regarding how the metal reacts and weakens under heat etc... is something that requires a metallurgist that knows his metals. There is no scientific evidence of this "breaking of atoms" in our context and still no experiment with data that shows the different composition of the vapor between a regular coil and a coil that was dry burnt at least once in its lifetime. I hope Dr. F. does this experiment soon and publishes the data.
Titanium wires
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Yeah the shop I went to did exactly the same thing. And there I was watching the guy rebuild a coil for this woman's IPV4 and I was thinking "Damn, these people have no clue that what they're doing is probably dangerous and they're passing it on to others". Funnily enough, I went in with my Tilemahos and the salesperson was wondering what tank that was since he hadn't seen it before...
Funny coincidence because Stelios posted a quote in the Greek thread, from Dr. F in some other Greek forum, directly related to this. In summary he says that dry burning might not be deadly but the potential damage from it is certainly avoidable. He refers to discussions he's had with a material scientist for example and how the structure of a metal will change in dry burning conditions. I've studied Physics so I have a basic understanding of the structure of metals and their alloys and how they change under extreme conditions such as heat and stress, so I've always avoided dry burning coils. I think until there's some study showing that dry burning is ok, then you should refrain from doing so.
Well Since there is no study that vaping is ok and we keep doing it, I will keep on dry burning until a study tells me otherwise as well
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I don't know any of the people who are getting hot spots, it was in the comments of the Dr Far video on Youtube. I don't get hot spots and like I said have not dry burned or torched a coil in so long I can not remember the last time I did it. I like to think that I do not do anything fancy and nothing complicated that's for sure and I do not have any problems with hot spots so I to am a little confused with hot spots. With the Tilemahos V2 I can make a quick coil without problems, true it is my favorite RTA and use it all the time so of course it gets easier over time. It may be just the fact that people are changing there RTA's and RDA's so often now because there are so many out there and everyone love's to try new device's that they have not figured out all the little details about them yet. Or I could be completely wrong. Adam
Dry-burning metal coils: is it a good thing? By Dr Farsalinos and Pedro Carvalho (material sciences expert)
So you're saying that you're going to ignore the advice of people more knowledgeable than you on the matter until you've seen actual evidence., even though you could be harm in yourself; I'm guessing you're a very religious person. Let's hope for your sake that it's harmless.Well Since there is no study that vaping is ok and we keep doing it, I will keep on dry burning until a study tells me otherwise as well
A cardiologist is not more knowledgeable than me in metals anatomy and their structure under heat.
Also I'm not a doctor and I don't go advising people on heart medicines.
First of all you missed the part in my post where I said that he talked to a material scientist (you know the people who are probably most knowledgeable when it comes to something like this); john67 even posted a link to with further info regarding this.
And in any case, he probably is more knowledgeable in metallic structures than you. All sciences are closely related; I may have studied physics but I have a good understanding of protein synthesis for example.
Each opinion is respectable since there are no completed research results.
We may not have evidence, but we have some doctors giving us their opinion.
It's up to us to do whatever we believe BUT it's too disappointing to devalue with some very hard words Dr Farsalinos. (not in this thread)
Anyway... I think that the war is elsewhere.
The real conflict is between those who are vaping in order to hurt as less as it can be their health and the others that in the name of their HOBBY and the pleasure that gives them, don't want to hear anything before the proofs.
I don't endorse their opinion but I respect their right to do whatever they want!!!!
We may not have evidence, but we have some doctors giving us their opinion.
It's up to us to do whatever we believe BUT it's too disappointing to devalue with some very hard words Dr Farsalinos. (not in this thread)
Anyway... I think that the war is elsewhere.
The real conflict is between those who are vaping in order to hurt as less as it can be their health and the others that in the name of their HOBBY and the pleasure that gives them, don't want to hear anything before the proofs.
I don't endorse their opinion but I respect their right to do whatever they want!!!!
Well said. I know you didn't mean me, but I never disrespected Dr. F. I always follow him and try to read as much as possible his publications. I stated only facts. He might be the best doctor and gives advices but these as you said are only opinions or "worries". Even him in the link posted above he said
"How much is metal exposure elevated by dry-burning the coils? Probably not very much"
[...]
"We will repeat our honest opinion that dry-burning the coils will not make vaping similar or worse than smoking. This is clear and there is no need for over-reactions."
No hard feelings guys. I'm not hard headed. But if I vape, it is because I don't want to smoke, and if I dry burn it's because the way I roll my coils (high tension contact coils) are the only way I can vape. if you get satisfied without contact coils and without dry burning then good for you, I envy you.
"How much is metal exposure elevated by dry-burning the coils? Probably not very much"
[...]
"We will repeat our honest opinion that dry-burning the coils will not make vaping similar or worse than smoking. This is clear and there is no need for over-reactions."
No hard feelings guys. I'm not hard headed. But if I vape, it is because I don't want to smoke, and if I dry burn it's because the way I roll my coils (high tension contact coils) are the only way I can vape. if you get satisfied without contact coils and without dry burning then good for you, I envy you.
We're obviously not arguing, I'm just discussing this because I care. We all respect each other and their opinions.
You remind me the days I was smoking.
I was a fanatic smoker and I was saying "I'll smoke until a doctor tell me that I'll die in a year"
Of course I don't think the "dry burn" matter is so deadly
And no hard feelings my friend... don't worry
What about heating the coils to glowing and then washing them?
What I mean is that sometimes washing a gunked up coil with a toothbrush doesn't completely remove the gunk. But glowing the coil a little bit...and yeah there is some smoke/vapor but I avoid breathing it.
I zap the coil and immediately put the coil under running water and clean with a toothbrush. I know imeo said not to glow the coil but; is it safe after you wash it?
This method works pretty good for me to remove the gunk. The toothbrush is soft enough to not move the structure or the diameter of the coils. I remove the old wick and brush the coil with a toothbrush and running water and most times I have to heat the coil a little to completely remove the gunk and then repeat the washing process with toothbrush and water.
Is there a better (safer) way to clean coils?
What I mean is that sometimes washing a gunked up coil with a toothbrush doesn't completely remove the gunk. But glowing the coil a little bit...and yeah there is some smoke/vapor but I avoid breathing it.
I zap the coil and immediately put the coil under running water and clean with a toothbrush. I know imeo said not to glow the coil but; is it safe after you wash it?
This method works pretty good for me to remove the gunk. The toothbrush is soft enough to not move the structure or the diameter of the coils. I remove the old wick and brush the coil with a toothbrush and running water and most times I have to heat the coil a little to completely remove the gunk and then repeat the washing process with toothbrush and water.
Is there a better (safer) way to clean coils?
Also on the note of cleaning and dry burning coils. If it were deemed that burning coils is really dangerous and not safe at all, even if you wash it afterwards, then I would be willing to just replace the wire altogether. It just takes more time and effort.
I clean my coils and replace my wicks about once a week.
I clean my coils and replace my wicks about once a week.
Well I believe the discussion should be about the benefits of dry burning the coil.
Which are those benefits? Are they really big, and cannot be missed? I do not know.
Cleaning the coil by dry burning it is definitely a plus. But if you have to brush it with a toothbrush, rinse it with water etc, I believe a freshly wrapped coil would be a better option in terms of convenience etc.
And as long as we use a spaced coil, is there any need to worry about hot spots? I don't know!
Which are those benefits? Are they really big, and cannot be missed? I do not know.
Cleaning the coil by dry burning it is definitely a plus. But if you have to brush it with a toothbrush, rinse it with water etc, I believe a freshly wrapped coil would be a better option in terms of convenience etc.
And as long as we use a spaced coil, is there any need to worry about hot spots? I don't know!
All my coils are single spaced, and never any hot spots. It takes more time to wrap a new coil rather than clean one and rewick it. The single spaced coils still get gunky. Just not as fast as something like a micro coil. If it was anything other than a single spaced coil, then I would have to rebuild more than once a week.
I am always re building and find something new each time the problem is I can not always remember what I did the last time lol I think I will start weighing my wick as well every coil I make is different but not always on purpose
Greek Universities require from the students to do a "degree work" before they take their degree Aal. My work was about metals and foundries. I am a mechanical engineer too as you know. So please listen to me when I scream that you have to stop burning metals. Its unhealthy while you do it, its unhealthy because you change the structure of the metal, you produce oxides etc. Just make a google search about this issue.
Also do you prefer to wash your casseroles, or dry burn them? Do you dry burn the body of your atomizers to clean them? Does it looks right to you? Maybe you forgot the reason why modders started making SS atomizers and not nichrome ones or kanthal ones, or nickel ones? Will you keep your water on a nickel bottle? Or will you buy an atomizer made by nickel? Or do you really know how bad is rust in your lungs? I dont know but I can easily suspect. Very bad!
In a while we will be dead because of these bad practices that some ignorant people brought on vaping community
Well Since there is no study that vaping is ok and we keep doing it, I will keep on dry burning until a study tells me otherwise as well
Will you eat a fruit from a tree that you dont know if it will poisson you Aal?
You take that risk? What if the results of a study shows that burning metals is the worst thing you could do to yourself?
You still dont listen to me that I know what I am talking about. You dont listen Farsalinos. But it will be maybe too late when you will decide to listen to another person that you think he is more serious than me or Farsalinos.
Aal, I am always trying to protect my people and you are one of them. So: Dont burn the metals!
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