Exactly what I was looking for! This is the kind of posts I want from the Christian members - the truth behind your religion that can be said to have been free from human corruption and insufficiencies. I learned about the Nicean council in school - it was a bunch of Catholic elders who were trying to change the teachings to ensure the survival of their Church. The problem I have is that several of the contemporary Christian churches adopted the changes made in this council without realizing that they were man-made and arbitrary!
To all Christian members
- Thread starter gashin
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Then I guess you better get to studying Aramaic then, huh?
Perhaps then you can read these: Nag Hammadi Library
My guess is that taking the time to read/study/learn is not high on your list of priorities, particularly since you have a business to run.
Perhaps you should focus on the books of Milton Friedman rather than the books and sources for the Christian Bible.
Just a suggestion.
More specifically, it was Contantine's attempt to unify his empire by incorporating the tenets of the many pagan religions with the new Christian religion that was rocking his world.
My ubquitous Youtube link:
YouTube - Jesus Christ Superstar (1973) Simon Zealotes (8) (((Stereo)))
;-)
(Or if you prefer....the 2000 movie version...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zftdy3Omdg
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Yeah I need to learn Aramaic to answer my own questions. I don't know about Milton Friedman's theories - I don't think I need them to satisfy my customers.
But again let's get back on topic - how do you trust the texts you derive your beliefs from knowing that they may have been translated and manipulated over time? I believe that the original Gospels may be in fact historically accurate and possibly even divinely inspired. But does the same apply to the hundreds of translations since? You also have to take into consideration the evolution of English and the other languages over time because our language has changed significantly, even over the past couple couple centuries.
But again let's get back on topic - how do you trust the texts you derive your beliefs from knowing that they may have been translated and manipulated over time? I believe that the original Gospels may be in fact historically accurate and possibly even divinely inspired. But does the same apply to the hundreds of translations since? You also have to take into consideration the evolution of English and the other languages over time because our language has changed significantly, even over the past couple couple centuries.
If you are sincerely want to know the truth you can pray that you will learn the truth and it will happen. It is very simple. Just study and pray that you will not be deceived.
Oh I think old Milton had a pretty good idea about creating markets in times of upheavel and doubt. Most of the supplier here in the last 4 months have made a pretty penny off of the FDA scare.
The topic.
You know what to do. You just want someone to play intellectual ping pong with. I'm not in the mood. But I will toss you a bone.
Any text written by man is subject to errors, misinterpretations, improper translations. That applies to not only the Bible, but the Declaration of Independence and Mein Kampf as well as Shakespeare, Plato, Socrates...shall I continue?
Let's talk about the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution shall we?
Some say that it doesn't give the individual the right to keep and bear arms instead they believe the right was given to the state militias. Others believe that the drafters of the Constitution put that Amendment in to protect the citizens from a tyrannical government. What do you believe? Why? Convince me you are right.
Tag...you're it.
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"About this time lived Jesus, a man full of wisdom, if indeed one may call Him a man. For He was the doer of incredible things, and the teacher of such as gladly received the truth. He thus attracted to Himself many Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was the Christ. On the accusation of the leading men of our people, Pilate condemned Him to death upon the cross; nevertheless those who had previously loved Him still remained faithful to Him. For on the third day He again appeared to them living, just as, in addition to a thousand other marvellous things, prophets sent by God had foretold. And to the present day the race of those who call themselves Christians after Him has not ceased."
Interesting.... any more third-party historians? Authors like Josephus hold more credibility for me than contemporary Church teachings.
Interesting.... any more third-party historians? Authors like Josephus hold more credibility for me than contemporary Church teachings.
Something tells me the OP cannot be convinced.................could this be bordering on trollism???
Haha... I know what you are talking about but the FDA thing was legitimate but way overblown....
No. I do not want to play intellectual ping-pong. But again you did not answer my question - how can you believe in what is in the current bible knowing full well that it may not be 100% accurate?
My current (Zen) Buddhist beliefs consist of the following:
All concepts of reality arise from the mind and are therefore inaccurate.
All suffering comes from attachment to and obsession over these false concepts.
Everything is one - there is no dichotomy between object and subject because the subject always creates an incomplete and inaccurate concept of the object.
There is no life after death because there is no evidence of life after death.
These were truths I came to on my own based on my own interpretation of Buddhist teachings - I believe them to be true because I have experienced them subjectively and because there is objective scientific evidence supporting my beliefs.
My lack of belief in Christianity arose from the lack of evidence and the possible manipulation and misinterpretation of the original texts.
I guess I'm looking for answers from Christianity that will satisfy the facts that my study of Buddhism and science has led me to. I personally have found most contemporary Christian teachers to be intellectually shallow who rely on emotional rapture to explain why we should believe in Jesus and God. I am a critical thinker - I am looking for logical and well supported answers from Christianity to the daily phenomena that dominate our lives - because I really cannot feel this faith that Christians always tell me is the sole reason why they believe in what they believe.
No. I do not want to play intellectual ping-pong. But again you did not answer my question - how can you believe in what is in the current bible knowing full well that it may not be 100% accurate?
My current (Zen) Buddhist beliefs consist of the following:
All concepts of reality arise from the mind and are therefore inaccurate.
All suffering comes from attachment to and obsession over these false concepts.
Everything is one - there is no dichotomy between object and subject because the subject always creates an incomplete and inaccurate concept of the object.
There is no life after death because there is no evidence of life after death.
These were truths I came to on my own based on my own interpretation of Buddhist teachings - I believe them to be true because I have experienced them subjectively and because there is objective scientific evidence supporting my beliefs.
My lack of belief in Christianity arose from the lack of evidence and the possible manipulation and misinterpretation of the original texts.
I guess I'm looking for answers from Christianity that will satisfy the facts that my study of Buddhism and science has led me to. I personally have found most contemporary Christian teachers to be intellectually shallow who rely on emotional rapture to explain why we should believe in Jesus and God. I am a critical thinker - I am looking for logical and well supported answers from Christianity to the daily phenomena that dominate our lives - because I really cannot feel this faith that Christians always tell me is the sole reason why they believe in what they believe.
Oh I think old Milton had a pretty good idea about creating markets in times of upheavel and doubt? Most of the supplier here in the last 4 months have made a pretty penny off of the FDA scare.
The topic.
You know what to do. You just want someone to play intellectual ping pong with. I'm not in the mood. But I will toss you a bone.
Any text written by man is subject to errors, misinterpretations, improper translations. That applies to not only the Bible, but the Declaration of Independence and Mein Kampf as well as Shakespeare, Plato, Socrates...shall I continue?
Let's talk about the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution shall we?
Some say that it doesn't give the individual the right to keep and bear arms instead they believe the right was given to the state militias. Others believe that the drafters of the Constitution put that Amendment in to protect the citizens from a tyrannical government. What do you believe? Why? Convince me you are right.
Tag...you're it.
I'm not trolling. No one other than Gep and Mjones has offered me any intellectual reasons behind their beliefs. The post about the prophecies, in my opinion, cannot be considered to be evidence because of the possible errors in translations.
Why do you believe? What can you tell me that will make me believe? How did you come to your beliefs? Was it through environmental factors or through actual realizations through study and experience?
I'm being serious here. Are there any personal experiences behind your belief? I cannot believe without evidence - I guess this is my main problem preventing me from becoming Christian again.
Why do you believe? What can you tell me that will make me believe? How did you come to your beliefs? Was it through environmental factors or through actual realizations through study and experience?
I'm being serious here. Are there any personal experiences behind your belief? I cannot believe without evidence - I guess this is my main problem preventing me from becoming Christian again.
It seems to me you are fishing for reasons NOT to believe..almost to make yourself feel better for turning away from Christ, no?
No. I want to believe in Jesus. It's just I can't. Why do you believe in him? Throw away all the doctrine and give me examples of how he has helped you in your life.
I'd get a mean Nun to smack you in the knuckles with a ruler every time you questioned her. If you paid 12$ an hour for her to do it, I'd bet you'd believe before long. lol
These threads that are pleading for attention amuse me, ah but I'm just here waisting time waiting for my new PV to come in. wait...update...
wait for it.........
wait.....
It just left San Jose. yeah!
These threads that are pleading for attention amuse me, ah but I'm just here waisting time waiting for my new PV to come in. wait...update...
wait for it.........
wait.....
It just left San Jose. yeah!
We shouldn't have to be coerced into belief - that's what the Catholic church did and millions of people died for it - but should come to faith because it would be so obvious that it would be ......ed not to.
Nice gun - is that an CAR-15?
Nice gun - is that an CAR-15?
Don't use me as a role model hehe, I curse like a sailor and have been known to get "tore up from the floor up" (southern slang hehe). Modern churches with thier 5000 dollar plexiglass pulpits and hypocrytes that ooze greed make me want to vomit. I couldn't find the straight and narrow with a garmin. When I finally kick the bucket one day the pearly gates will pinch me in the ... if I make it in. Every time I set foot in a church they send the "God Squad" after me hehe. I am who I am (no popeye jokes) I've accepted I'm lazy and I'm cool with that. I won't get on my soapbox and tell ppl how to live their lives, when I'm not willing to do the same.
I just look up at the sky at night and see hubbel pics, and know that some higher pwr made at that. If you believe some ball of goo exploded and made all that up there, thats a pretty shallow belief. It had to come from somewhere, our fragile little planet is a super delicate balance of forces that if one goes to crap our little blue ball is a flamin ball of burnt rock. I think someone "up there" is watchin out for us. I picked God, when I go to the big vape lounge in the sky and (insert diety) is standing there and says I chose poorly so be it, won't be the first time.
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gashin, two comments. You have stated the original intent of this thread several times through four pages. For someone who claims to be logical and a critical thinker, stating "I want to believe in Jesus. It's just I can't. Why do you believe in him?" makes no sense. I think you basically know what problem(s) is bothering you in your life and what you believe, but you are not yet ready to make that jump to accept your own decision or you have not found that one thing that is missing to make you whole.
Second, you are a pretty active forum supplier/member/sponsor and start many threads. Is this part of your marketing plan?
Lastly, on faith. The best definition of faith I ever heard was from Father Mulcahey in the TV series M.A.S.H. - "Faith is the belief in unseen things". While not a very scientific, it certainly describes something most all of us have experienced whether it be a faith in a religion, faith that an apple will always fall to the ground from a tree, faith that the driver of an oncoming care is not going to veer into you or faith in a loving relationship.
And no, I am not a Christian nor spiritual.
If you just have faith the size of a mustard seed, ask God to help you believe and he will. The Bible says God is the giver of faith but that we must respond to it. He will set you free with the Truth......He is the only one that can do it.
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