Tobacco Companies and Vaping
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all regulatory agencies have been captured. regulatory capture is an industry term
FDA - Ex Monsanto Lobbyist
this is not evil per se, it normal, inevitable. Monopoly is the end state. this is all natural evolution. wealth consolidates and is exercised to gain more wealth. BT isnt any different. Gov regulating agencies are owned and operated by the industries they are charged with regulating. fake L nor fake R will ever change that. its all smoke n mirrors, this condition has been escalating for decades.
FDA - Ex Monsanto Lobbyist
this is not evil per se, it normal, inevitable. Monopoly is the end state. this is all natural evolution. wealth consolidates and is exercised to gain more wealth. BT isnt any different. Gov regulating agencies are owned and operated by the industries they are charged with regulating. fake L nor fake R will ever change that. its all smoke n mirrors, this condition has been escalating for decades.
OK... So who Oversees the FDA. The Health and Human Services Secretary I believe.
Should we be Directing our Anger then at Him. Or Her.
A lot of people at the FDA have stepped out and talked...
Hasn't changed a thing, and nobody even cares.
honestly, I would suggest not bothering. I 'll go out on a limb here, and say this: gov is merely a facade, a straw man now, out front, to take the heat, for the money that manages it quietly from behinds the smoky back rooms. we've had many Standing Presidents go on record and tell us as much.. Wilson, Eisenhower, Kennedy to name a few..that isn't conspiracy theory.. its conspiracy fact. don't believe me.. then do your own research. all governments across the history of man have evolved in the same way. wealth and power develops, coalesces, and more and more, uses government to protect its privilege. eventually, as we have now, the gov completely stops any actual service to the people, and only serves the privilege class.
in all sincerity, these agencies are not, nor will they be, responsive to your efforts. we've passed that stage.
in all sincerity, these agencies are not, nor will they be, responsive to your efforts. we've passed that stage.
If every citizen of these United States would understand what you just said, maybe we might have some hope of changing the status quo.
But really, it's all human nature, and it has been this way since caveman days.
I'm not sure anyone can ever change the way governments evolve, or the hold that the rich and powerful have on our everyday lives.
yes. we.. can change this.. but the election process is hacked too. it will take more than using a broken system to fix a broken system. standard evolution of all govs.. see France in 1700's
Viva Robespierre!
of course didn't take long for need to overcome that weasel too.. but.. c'est la vie all leaders evolve into weasels.
without forceful accountability, there is none; corruption ALWAYS fills the vacuum
Viva Robespierre!
of course didn't take long for need to overcome that weasel too.. but.. c'est la vie all leaders evolve into weasels. without forceful accountability, there is none; corruption ALWAYS fills the vacuum
My only quibble with your post above is that you use the word "conspiracy" too often.
As you well know, this is not about any "conspiracy" so much as it is about how the world really works.
It's just business as usual, as it has been forever.
Although, to be honest, conspiracy is the best descriptor of what happens...
But using that word turns people off because somehow it has developed bad connotations.
As someone who truly "gets it" I would humbly request that you post MOAR!!yes. we.. can change this.. but the election process is hacked too. it will take more than using a broken system to fix a broken system. standard evolution of all govs.. see France in 1700's
Viva Robespierre!
without forceful accountability, there is none; corruption ALWAYS fills the vacuum
yass.. I know.. I cringe too.. Ive been called a conspiracy theorist for most of my life. born in 62 to parents that taught my oswald wasn't a lone gunman... grew up watching 60 mins.. and always had a insatiable appetite for truth..
they have been very successful at creating a pavlovian response in the general population top the term.
but all people conspire. it isnt always wicked. if you and I went to the same privileged schools, belonged to the same fraternities.. and moved socially together, it would only be natural to conspire to maintain the status quo, at a minimum. Its natural, as you said.
this isn't invisible man in the sky stuff.. this is just natural selfishness and self centeredness at work. all people have it.. to what degree is determined by their willingness to discipline it.
ZH!! ( Im Geek_rulz over there =) )
they have been very successful at creating a pavlovian response in the general population top the term.
but all people conspire. it isnt always wicked. if you and I went to the same privileged schools, belonged to the same fraternities.. and moved socially together, it would only be natural to conspire to maintain the status quo, at a minimum. Its natural, as you said.
this isn't invisible man in the sky stuff.. this is just natural selfishness and self centeredness at work. all people have it.. to what degree is determined by their willingness to discipline it.
ZH!! ( Im Geek_rulz over there =) )
Are you really that gullable & trusting of the FDA? What rock have you been hiding under, Zoidman? The FDA is corrupt to the bone.
The FDA when created served a useful purpose in keeping harmful substances out of reach of consumer products. But most of the government funding for the FDA ceased some time back and they are now subsidized by Big Pharmacy and Big tobacco. You don't bite the hand that feeds you, or you won't be getting much food. The FDA is no longer looking out for your best interests. Guess who they are looking out for now.
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thank you BA.. exactly. glad to see you are wide awake as well, and DC2. yep.. we.. mean nothing anymore. period.
In my home, every single day, there are numerous conspiracies at work.
And I don't even have children, just a freaking dog and a wife.
lmao.. yep! I have a dog AND a cat.. AND a wife!! LOL ( occasionally the grandson too lol ) 
I will not be buying BT's products
They are coming to market on two fronts:
1) Through Development (Mark 10,Vuse) or Purchase (Blu) of their own products
2) Legislation
The FDA Deeming regs have the fingerprints of BT all over it as was the Tobacco Control Act of 2009.
It is NO COINCIDENCE that the FDA's proposed regulations EXEMPT any product available on or before FEB. 15, 2007
This means essentially every product we discuss on these forums would be required to submit to an approval process.
How many of the current vaping manufacturer's and vendors have the money and clout to navigate the FDA mandates?
BT strategy with all of this makes perfect sense.
In fact it's the only strategy they have.
I however will not be buying their products to support them.
It's not because I have spent literally TENS OF THOUSANDS of dollars on their products that I knew was killing me one puff at a time. (They did send me a coupon for a birthday "present" every year in appreciation.)
It's not because their ecig products SUCK (which they do).
Its because by their own inaction and lack of vision they obsoleted themselves. THEY MISSED THE BOAT! Complete mismanagement.
BT's PRODUCT (and by extension BT) has been under siege on all fronts for going on 30+ years.
We went from being able to use their product ANYWHERE to being able to use their product virtually NOWHERE.
They have been ostracized, marginalized, litigated.and over-taxed.
The one industry that had EVERY REASON and PLENTIFUL RESOURCES to be on FOREFRONT of vaping and shape the market by LEADING IT was completely M.I.A. BT should have developed this technology ON THEIR OWN 10+ years ago because ITS GOOD BUSINESS ,GOOD POLITICS and IMAGE REBUILDING.
Now BT simply wants to buy their way IN to this industry by working with the Federal Govt to regulate OUT the companies and products we currently enjoy.
Ironically, their major partner in this is Big Pharmaceutical with their funding of biased and bogus "research" proliferating the "ecigs are dangerous" message.
(Makes sense since ecigs dodged the "NRT" tag and therefore the millions of dollars Pharms had do spend to bring their LESS EFFECTIVE patch and gum smoking cessation products to market)
BT is now attempting to retroactively define what an ECIG is. They've even had the benefit of watching the consumers DO THEIR PRODUCT DEVELOPMENT FOR FREE!
And what do they give us? Underperforming tobacco only flavored cigalikes.
Most vapors don't want that and for those that do there are already several WAY better options.
Not a fan.
Apologize for the overabundance of CAPS
They are coming to market on two fronts:
1) Through Development (Mark 10,Vuse) or Purchase (Blu) of their own products
2) Legislation
The FDA Deeming regs have the fingerprints of BT all over it as was the Tobacco Control Act of 2009.
It is NO COINCIDENCE that the FDA's proposed regulations EXEMPT any product available on or before FEB. 15, 2007
This means essentially every product we discuss on these forums would be required to submit to an approval process.
How many of the current vaping manufacturer's and vendors have the money and clout to navigate the FDA mandates?
BT strategy with all of this makes perfect sense.
In fact it's the only strategy they have.
I however will not be buying their products to support them.
It's not because I have spent literally TENS OF THOUSANDS of dollars on their products that I knew was killing me one puff at a time. (They did send me a coupon for a birthday "present" every year in appreciation.)
It's not because their ecig products SUCK (which they do).
Its because by their own inaction and lack of vision they obsoleted themselves. THEY MISSED THE BOAT! Complete mismanagement.
BT's PRODUCT (and by extension BT) has been under siege on all fronts for going on 30+ years.
We went from being able to use their product ANYWHERE to being able to use their product virtually NOWHERE.
They have been ostracized, marginalized, litigated.and over-taxed.
The one industry that had EVERY REASON and PLENTIFUL RESOURCES to be on FOREFRONT of vaping and shape the market by LEADING IT was completely M.I.A. BT should have developed this technology ON THEIR OWN 10+ years ago because ITS GOOD BUSINESS ,GOOD POLITICS and IMAGE REBUILDING.
Now BT simply wants to buy their way IN to this industry by working with the Federal Govt to regulate OUT the companies and products we currently enjoy.
Ironically, their major partner in this is Big Pharmaceutical with their funding of biased and bogus "research" proliferating the "ecigs are dangerous" message.
(Makes sense since ecigs dodged the "NRT" tag and therefore the millions of dollars Pharms had do spend to bring their LESS EFFECTIVE patch and gum smoking cessation products to market)
BT is now attempting to retroactively define what an ECIG is. They've even had the benefit of watching the consumers DO THEIR PRODUCT DEVELOPMENT FOR FREE!
And what do they give us? Underperforming tobacco only flavored cigalikes.
Most vapors don't want that and for those that do there are already several WAY better options.
Not a fan.
Apologize for the overabundance of CAPS
If anyone thinks that any government agency is there to protect them, they are stupid. There is no government anymore. Our country is run by corporations.
If the vaping industry becomes defunct because of BT, then I will stop vaping. No way I'm going to start using something like Blu or go back to smoking.
If the vaping industry becomes defunct because of BT, then I will stop vaping. No way I'm going to start using something like Blu or go back to smoking.
You just had to make me do some poking around on the internet about FDA funding, didn't you?
I was undecided about whether I would hoard nicotine for a potential vapocalypse, but I will definitely be doing so when I have the funds. Trust the FDA to do the right thing, or trust congress to stop them from being themselves? Of course the FDA will pass whatever to get the application fees from vaporizer/liquid manufacturers if it'll keep the lights on!
I guess I could hope the Supreme Court will strike them down at some point, but I'll need something in the meantime.
Yes, but did they make crappy snus just to discredit them? Yep, BT's snus really bite. They had about 1000 times the shelf space of decent snus.
Think that was a lose for them? Nope.
"...the principal job of the regulators is to shut down vaping as far as they are legally able to. Therefore, whatever changes are made to the product, they will simply change the wording of the laws to suit. Whatever alterations are made, they will change the laws to stop it. They have absolutely no interest whatsoever in public health, they are there to protect tax revenue and pharmaceutical industry income.
There is a fundamental error commonly made about the role of government regulators in the smoking-related area: that they are somehow in place to protect the public, or willing to listen to science-based argument, or similar misconceptions. They are there to ban vaping as far as they are able, because it is a threat to immense revenues of at least a trillion dollars a year. They will do whatever they can to ban or restrict vaping and protect the status quo (by protecting smoking from any serious threats)." -- Rolygate, ECF forum manager
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...nicotine-extraction-tomatos.html#post13921538
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