Too Many Jan Join Dates Asking About Sub Ohm

[Tinkiegrrl]

@Fizzpop & @iamAuz - I never once said it was a good idea. But I DO know the potential danger of it. Before I build and say "Yep, Donkey, that'll do." I usually run the Ohm's Law calculator against the projected build. When I run it, I ALWAYS run it in WCS (worst case scenario) of the 4.2V MAX output (on a battery that will ONLY deliver 3.7V). When I run it I avoid hitting the battery limit as much as possible. BUT I also know the warnings if / when something goes wrong. And again, I ACCEPT responsibility IF / WHEN something goes wrong. I also acknowledge that EVEN at a max output of 4.2V - that will quickly drop on a 1 - 5 second fire. Which is why I also PULSE my coils on a fresh battery to bring the voltage down. The numbers I come up with WHEN I do my math:

---WCS METHOD---
Volts: 4.2V
Resistance: .13 Ohms
Amps Req'd: 32.308A
Watts: 135.692W
Battery: Sony US18650VCT4 2100MaH (30A)

---(SEMI)SAFE DELIVERY METHOD---
Volts: 3.7V
Amps Req'd: 28.462A
Resistance: .13 Ohms
Watts: 105.308W
Battery: Sony US18650VCT4 2100MaH (30A)

Now with the numbers produced we see that yes - at 4.2V (WCS) that I have broken the 'Continual Amp Draw Limit' of the battery itself. But that battery will PEAK the output at 4.2V - it won't CONTINUALLY output power at 4.2V. After I get over that peak - the 3.7V output against a .13 Ohm coil is perfectly acceptable. Although it comes close to the 30A limit of the VCT4/VCT5 - that battery shrugs it off like it's nothing. Plus as the battery discharges - the voltage, wattage, and amperage will go down. Also as the coil ages - the resistance will increase bringing it further into the safe zone. Is it still dangerous? Absolutely. But as far as I'm concerned - I read my own disclaimer and the disclaimer of others - I signed the contract and I accepted the responsibility. Will I go below that resistance? 2 words for you: 'Hell no'. The sole reason I brought it to light was because I know my equipments limitations. The biggest piece of equipment is the batteries that provide the power to fire your coil(s). Now onto other things.

@optsmk - No sir, I meant .13 Ohms:

Dual Nano Coil - 24G Kanthal A1 - 5 Wraps on 18G Needle - .13 Ohms - Patriot V1.2 rda - Cotton Wick - Firing on a V3 Flip Mechanical Mod

105 watts? Wow. I can't imagine the heat on that. I prefer a cooler vape, hence no need to sub-ohm. Not trying to be snarky, but I am genuinely curious as to what kind of juice can vaporize at that power level, rather then burn? Not to mention wicking material. Silica would withstand it I guess, but I can't imagine cotton would.

 

[Cearamm]

That coworker i mentioned earlier came in today and showed me his s!ck @s t!ts build and how big the clouds were.

Quad coil that metered out at .16omhs. First i explained he was pulling 27 amps on a 30A rated battery. Then he told me but yea the clouds are 'small' because this battery is only 30% charged.

I tried an tried to explain how hes probably going to overdrain that battery and the potential consequences but he still wouldnt listen. His build was pulling 100+ watts on a full charge. ...?!

 

[novamatt]

IMO there's way to much fuss over sub-ohming. It's not that big of a deal when you consider that .8 is sub ohm and any battery can handle 5 amps. It's when you start to go below .5 that you really need to think about battery safety.

I agree with you as long as you're talking about safer chemistry IMR batteries and not trying to do it on 18350s, but most of the questions on the new member forum that display a lack of knowledge about battery safety are usually under .5.

 

[Tinkiegrrl]

Again, I'm genuinely curious on this and I'm not trying to contribute anything to the fight on either side. I really want to know how much the flavor really improves at 100 watts. I know that it may not burn with the proper airflow. That said, wouldn't a similar flavor be achieved with less airflow and lower watts? Is the that some prefer very airy draws to begin with, and thus need to vape at higher watts to achieve the same flavor with that airier draw?

 

[Equilibrium]

Meh... to each their own, I suppose.

I'm perfectly happy with my .8 - 1.3 builds even though my batteries will easily go much lower.


I was gonna say something like... "It's not my face that will suffer when thermal runaway occurs" But that wouldn't be nice, would it?

 

[CasketWeaver]

@Tinkiegrrl - Yeah, that's why I build them ridiculously low is for the heat. Some juices just taste better warmer. Especially my creme brulee juice. It tastes so much better warmer than it does at a higher resistance / lower wattage. I love it. Same thing with cinnamon roll / cinnamon danish juices - in my opinion - they just taste better when the vapor is warm to hot. It's like taking a big old bite out of a freshly baked danish. But as far as the cotton burning - I have only had that issue 2 or 3 times. I know when I get the hint of a possible dry hit. The flavor and temperature change is a dead giveaway. If it starts hurting your throat (making it itch or making you cough) - toss some drops in there. If it starts going from fairly warm to extremely warm - throw some drops in there. Those are key signs for a potential dry hit coming - keep in mind, the liquid acts as a coolant on the coils - not enough liquid will overheat your build and burn your wicking material.

@novamatt & @ConradM - THERE'S WHAT WE WERE LOOKING FOR! Yes, attempting a sub-ohm build on a battery not necessarily rated for it is what makes it dangerous. Yes - anything can go wrong - BUT batteries venting / thermal breakdown can end up making a seemingly harmless situation - BAD! That's why I went as far as I did to make the point. I can and will go to .13 ohms safely. I just won't go below that. As far as shorting batteries - dead shorts or otherwise potential shorting issues (loose connections, defective batteries, missing insulators, etc.) is why we use precautionary measures all the time - every time. If you can't identify a potential short - you probably shouldn't be doing it. But that's why everyone is going nuts over sub-ohm vaping. Because there are people out there that are inexperienced trying to direct new vapers that may have absolutely no clue what they're doing or just don't have the funds to do it - telling them to "do this" or "do that". Again, from my perspective, I'm a pretty new vaper myself. And definitely a new sub-ohmer to boot. But never in a million years will you read or hear me say: "Oh yeah, just go out there and buy a couple of [BRAND NAME HERE] 18350's and stack 'em together! Don't worry brah, you can hit ridiculously low ohms on a 2A battery!" Someone tried to tell me you could sub-ohm (.24 Ohm to be exact) with an AW IMR 18650 (10A). Anyone that thinks you can push 20+ amps through a 10 amp battery is either stupid (choosing not to know or care) or uneducated (genuinely doesn't know or hasn't conducted the research). You probably could - but for how long before the battery fails - and fail it will.

@Tinkiegrrl - Taste is totally subjective. As I say all the time - there are those that prefer cooler vapes and there are those that prefer warm to hot vapes. I fall in the latter of the category - I prefer a warm to hot vape - and in my honest opinion - the more heat I can pull on certain juice the better it is for me and my vaping. As I stated once before - I dropped from 24mg down to 0-6mg (as my local vape shop carries 2 styles of juice - 70/30 and 50/50 - the 50/50 being the highest nicotine concentration) when I started sub-ohming. I loved the throat hit on the 24mg liquids - but as I began my journey down the sub-ohm lane - I tried to hit a 24mg juice and couldn't do it. So I dropped my 24mg habit for a 0-6mg (the 6mg happens to be a chocolate, butterscotch, tobacco blend with a hint of vanilla). Now that could just be me - as I'm on my way to the 0mg journey to break the addiction of nicotine dependency altogether. But again - back to the topic - taste is all subjective - temperature is also all subjective and a personal preference.

@Cearamm - You should tell him - "You wanna see a big cloud? Go get a Russian / Kayfun, slap a .37 Ohm dual coil in it, drop the airflow screw and hit it!" - I'm kidding - yes he is playing with some bad joo joo right there - discharging his battery that low.