Too many options... please help me narrow

[MnNightowl]

I had stockpiled a bunch of Vapor4Life supplies before they went out of business and am now running out, so I started looking for options. I visited a few local stores, and even some blind google searches, but I'm as overwhelmed as I was in 2012. I have pretty simple usage:

1. Device: I used a Vapor Zeus (thick pen style, with attached tank/coils). I'd like to find a replacement brand with a thread style that will let me try out different tank systems (510?). I saw the Tronian Nutron which appears similar price/style. Is anyone familiar? Any other brands of that sort I should look at for that style battery?

2. E juice: I exclusively used Red Energy (red bull flavor) because it had the perfect throat hit. I'm a MTL inhaler, and just want a similar juice type from a credible brand. I am confused how to shop nic strength. For V4L, I used 1.8% but many of the brands I'm seeing are measured differently (3mg, 6mg, etc).

3. My assumption is my best bet at value is finding a big online retailer like V4L was, who might email me similar coupon codes to try other equipment/flavors. I'm just so out of touch having used the same company for so long.

 

[Territoo]

Hi. I'm sorry that you are having so much trouble. Having been out of the loop and stuck with a favorite company that has now gone under really sucks. I won't be able to help with all of your questions, but I'll do what I can.

As far as a device, I wouldn't go with the Tronian Nutron. It is a pod device designed for cannabis oil. It is not a 510 device. Vape pens are not very popular and there aren't many out there. Pods and pod mods are more popular and there are lots of good recommendations. However, I did find this from 2020. I do not know how up to date the links on the page are, but you can check it out.

Best vape pens of 2020 by Ecigguide

As far as your juice, your 1.8% is the same thing as 18mg/ml, so that's what you want to buy. If you ever care to get into DIY, there are energy drink flavors, including one by Real Flavors called Red Energy. I'm not familiar with ready to vape juices to be able to help you any more than that.

Have you considered upgrading your equipment? I think you would like a pod mod. It would give you the benefits of a pod, but could be also used as a 510 mod. One I use is the innokin Sensis, but it isn't even innokin's best. A lot of people talk about the coolfire z80. That requires an external battery. I'm sure others will chime in with different opinons.

 

[MnNightowl]

Thanks Territoo!

Yeah, I'm probably a bit of a nut but the one thing that helped me move from analogs to eCig was the cylinder shape of the pen device. Just a habit. I'll look over the 2020 guide you linked (Thanks!) and would definitely consider a different style. I will say the one thing that has annoyed using the $20/per pen styles is the lifespan, although Zeus was much, much more reliable than the prior thin pens.

I'd actually consider making my own juice... particularly if it protects me from any looming regulations affecting ability to buy flavored juice. Do you find it cost effective to make your own? Is it something anyone can do safely?

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

The Tronian Nutron is indeed a 510 device, but it's a small, slim battery and only 230mah. There are better 510 pen devices for nicotine vapers that are still available that are 1,000mah or more. They are about the size of a cigar, but you're better off with that. And there are tanks you can buy for them that are still available (and the coils) that you probably can learn or like to just outright love. At this point, you are going to have to realize that you may just have to learn to like something rather than look for a 1:1 replacement for 2010 technology. Not gonna happen.

I'm sending you a PM tonight. Look for it.

 

[Territoo]

Thanks Territoo!

Yeah, I'm probably a bit of a nut but the one thing that helped me move from analogs to eCig was the cylinder shape of the pen device. Just a habit. I'll look over the 2020 guide you linked (Thanks!) and would definitely consider a different style. I will say the one thing that has annoyed using the $20/per pen styles is the lifespan, although Zeus was much, much more reliable than the prior thin pens.

I'd actually consider making my own juice... particularly if it protects me from any looming regulations affecting ability to buy flavored juice. Do you find it cost effective to make your own? Is it something anyone can do safely?

Yes, making your own juice is pennies on the dollar compared to commercial juice and is very safe once you learn how. Commercial juice may soon no longer be available, so DIY may be the only way. I'd start by watching youtube tutorials on it. There are lots out there and when you are ready we can help you. The upfront cost might be more, especially when buying nicotine, but in the long run you save money.

 

[MnNightowl]

Yes, making your own juice is pennies on the dollar compared to commercial juice and is very safe once you learn how. Commercial juice may soon no longer be available, so DIY may be the only way. I'd start by watching youtube tutorials on it. There are lots out there and when you are ready we can help you. The upfront cost might be more, especially when buying nicotine, but in the long run you save money.

I took a look at "How to make your own eJuice" youtube vids and decided that is the route I want to go. I'm going to come off very ignorant here, but would help me if you could offer some opinions to narrow even that pursuit:

1. For me, the most critical thing is replicating the throat hit I expect... even more so than flavor. Does TH come from flavor? I enjoyed but basically tolerated the flavor of red energy for half a decade because it had the perfect throat hit, and avoided downsides I experienced with similar TH flavors offered by V4L (e.g. cafe mocha was too thick and shortened life of my carts/coils; bananas foster gave me tinnitus and cough). Any suggestions of flavor if TH is important?

2. So many tutorial videos, ranging from 2-5 years old. Some used premix base (with nic added already to the base) and some added all ingredients individually. I can do either but don't want to be a chemist just to be a chemist... is there a good company who has street cred for reliable premix, or is it better to deal with all individual ingredients?

 

[FranC]

I took a look at "How to make your own eJuice" youtube vids and decided that is the route I want to go. I'm going to come off very ignorant here, but would help me if you could offer some opinions to narrow even that pursuit:

1. For me, the most critical thing is replicating the throat hit I expect... even more so than flavor. Does TH come from flavor? I enjoyed but basically tolerated the flavor of red energy for half a decade because it had the perfect throat hit, and avoided downsides I experienced with similar TH flavors offered by V4L (e.g. cafe mocha was too thick and shortened life of my carts/coils; bananas foster gave me tinnitus and cough). Any suggestions of flavor if TH is important.



2. So many tutorial videos, ranging from 2-5 years old. Some used premix base (with nic added already to the base) and some added all ingredients individually. I can do either but don't want to be a chemist just to be a chemist... is there a good company who has street cred for reliable premix, or is it better to deal with all individual ingredients?[/

You should check out the DIY ejuices section of the forum.

 

[Territoo]

First, look at the juice that you are vaping currently. What is the propylene glycol (PG) to vegetable glycerine (VG) ratio? More PG gives more throat hit and carries more of the flavor, more VG gives more clouds and gives a touch more sweetness. You will need a mixing calculator. This one from DIY E-liquid | Steam Engine | free vaping calculators is a good one, but there's a lot of them out there. To start with, I'd mix either one-shots, where all of the flavors are already mixed, or just single flavors. Once you get that down, you can try your hand at recipes. My favorite place to get one shots is diyflavorshack vapor. They used to sell ready to vape before all of the products, but have since dropped their nicotine juice. You might like the Red Bully Girl, as that is an energy drink. The trick to adding flavors is to start low, as it is easier to add more if you didn't add enough to start with.
You will need to make a list of the supplies that you will need. The main ingredients are nicotine, PG, VG, and flavor. DIY flavor shack does have the VG and PG, but it is in smaller quantities and a bit more expensive. That would be fine for just starting out. Amazon sells gallon size, just be sure to get USP pharmaceutical grade. @UncleJunkle keeps a list of nicotine vendors https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/b...lers-still-shipping-100mg-nicotine-base.8371/. At 18mg/ml, you would probably prefer nic salts. As far as supplies, you will need bottles, I'd just start with 10ml at first. As far as measuring equipment, it depends on if you prefer to mix by volume or weight. If by volume, you will need pipettes that measure in 0.1ml increments and droppers that measure 0.01ml. If by weight, you need a scale that measures to 0.01g. Start by making one bottle, and don't expect it to go perfectly the first time. Also, you might get close to what you are currently vaping, but the recipes of vendors are proprietary secrets and are hard to recreate. Join us at https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/threads/random-diy-mixing-and-more.865169/page-7433#post-23532918 for DIY fun and recipes. We are lots of help there.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

For me, the most critical thing is replicating the throat hit I expect... even more so than flavor. Does TH come from flavor?

Throat comes mostly comes form higher nic milligram (like 12mg or more (aka 1.2%) and also from PG. But I suppose some flavors could add to throat hit.

In terms of DIY ejuice, to protect yourself from the government and high taxes so that you can vape as long as you want without being taxed to death or even forbidden to vape, at a very minimum you need...

1. Enough stored 100mg nicotine base to last you for however long you want to vape. I strongly advise you get your nic base in 100% PG.

2. Glass "boston rounds" bottles with polycone caps to decant the nic base into for long term storage.

3. Freezer space for long-term storage of your nicotine base. If you don't have freezer space then you'll have to buy a small 1 to 2 cu. ft. freezer for around $200. That size should be enough to store a lifetime of nic.

This blog post will give you a list of places to buy nic base, but from what I have seen in past months, Delosi (NicBase.com) will be your best bet in terms of shipping, price and quality. You'll want to buy 100mg nic base at 100% PG. That blog post also includes links to a calculator to calculate how much nic base you need to buy for as long as you intend to vape at your current strength and consumption and to glass bottles.

 

[Territoo]

3. Freezer space for long-term storage of your nicotine base. If you don't have freezer space then you'll have to buy a small 1 to 2 cu. ft. freezer for around $200. That size should be enough to store a lifetime of nic.

I have a lovely freezer as part of my living room decor. It doubles as a printer stand, too. I'm not sure what I'm going to do at Christmas as it's located where I usually put my tree.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

I have a lovely freezer as part of my living room decor. It doubles as a printer stand, too. I'm not sure what I'm going to do at Christmas as it's located where I usually put my tree.

Well you're gonna have to make room for the tree next to the freezer then wrap the freezer in Christmas gift wrap to make it look like a gift.

 

[Territoo]

Well you're gonna have to make room for the tree next to the freezer then wrap the freezer in Christmas gift wrap to make it look like a gift.

That'll be a lot of gift wrap. It's a 5 cu. ft. freezer. I have a lot of nicotine, but there's room to spare in the freezer, in case I want more.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

That'll be a lot of gift wrap. It's a 5 cu. ft. freezer.

Oh . I figured it was a 2 cu ft freezer. Dollar Tree has cheap gift wrap

EDITED TO ADD: The way things are going, I'd be storing some food in there. I'm sure you have enough nic by now. You got it when the gettin' was good.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

Vapor4Life I exclusively used Red Energy (red bull flavor) because it had the perfect throat hit.

So some archive.org surfing tells me V4L had 2 Red Enrgery juices: one in the WOW line and the other in the Premium line (black label). If you use the premium, I can see why it had a good throat hit. Beyond 18mg nic, the premium line was a whopping 75% PG based juice. I don't know what the regular WOW is but I'm guessing it was probably 50% PG.

"Get the WOW Red Energy for a lighter throat hit and sweeter taste, or select the Premium Red Energy E Liquid for a more powerful throat hit."

From internet archive...

Red Energy e Juice (30 mL)

"Get the WOW Red Energy for a lighter throat hit and sweeter taste, or select the Premium Red Energy E Liquid for a more powerful throat hit."

 

[bnrkwest]

I have not tried these but maybe something like this?? Jem Pen - Product | INNOKIN®

 

[JCinFLA]

I took a look at "How to make your own eJuice" youtube vids and decided that is the route I want to go.

This inexpensive Arctic King 1.1 cu. ft. freezer from Walmart is on Rollback, pricing wise, for only $116.00. It has been a very popular one that people have bought for longterm storage of their 100mg/mL nic base. Once you rebottle the nic base into glass bottles [8oz. ones fit fine in this freezer] you can store at least 5L in it. It uses very little electricity, too. You can buy it online and either have it shipped free to you, or you ought to be able to do a pick-up at the store. It doesn't weigh much empty and isn't hard to carry.

Robot or human?

Not sure why it shows the link as Robot or human, but I just saw it doing that in another thread, too, when someone posted a link. In any event, the link does go to the correct freezer when you click on it. If it doesn't for you though...just go to Walmart.com and search for this item, and it'll pop right up for you:
Arctic King 1.1 Cu ft Upright Freezer AUFM011AEW, White

I didn't know your exact zip code to enter, to check availability at a Walmart in your area, so I picked the 1st one that popped up on the USPS website for Eden Prairie, MN. It shows info for it at the Eden Prairie Walmart Supercenter.

 

[MnNightowl]

So some archive.org surfing tells me V4L had 2 Red Enrgery juices: one in the WOW line and the other in the Premium line (black label). If you use the premium, I can see why it had a good throat hit. Beyond 18mg nic, the premium line was a whopping 75% PG based juice. I don't know what the regular WOW is but I'm guessing it was probably 50% PG.

"Get the WOW Red Energy for a lighter throat hit and sweeter taste, or select the Premium Red Energy E Liquid for a more powerful throat hit."

From internet archive...

Red Energy e Juice (30 mL)

"Get the WOW Red Energy for a lighter throat hit and sweeter taste, or select the Premium Red Energy E Liquid for a more powerful throat hit."

I used Wow, so looks like 50/50 is probably what I should look for. Thanks!!

A ton of good suggestions in here, and separately via messages. VERY much appreciated.

My immediate urgency is finding a local juice supplier because I opened my last 30 ml bottle last night (yikes!). Sounds like I can ask any store for 50/50 18 mg/ml a I guess I'll need to go through the same trial/error I experienced back in 2010 re: finding the right flavor/TH. Eventually I plan to make my own juice but will need to go local until I have time to better educate myself on ingredients & flavor brands.

In terms of equipment, really appreciate the many leads here... in particular territoo & UncleJ. I am leaning to trying the Innokin T18ii kit; if anyone is familiar and can give a perspective on it I'd appreciate it! It's a bit wider (18 vs 14 mm) but I'm not seeing much other than el cheapo/weak mah pens without variable volt capability that are thinner. Probably just need to adapt for quality.

ETA: I had thought I found a perfect replacement in the Aspire K2 Kit but they are saying they do not ship to Minnesota. Is that the only place to get that equipment or do they retail through other sites?

 

[Territoo]

Glad to be of help. Fasttech has your Aspire K2 starter kits and they ship everywhere. You just won't get them very fast, which is typical for things coming from China. Better get used to that though, that's the new norm for getting ecig supplies these days. Especially if you live in one of those states that restricts shipments,

https://www.fasttech.com/product/8002700-aspire-k2-quick-800mah-starter-kit

 

[MnNightowl]

Glad to be of help. Fasttech has your Aspire K2 starter kits and they ship everywhere. You just won't get them very fast, which is typical for things coming from China. Better get used to that though, that's the new norm for getting ecig supplies these days. Especially if you live in one of those states that restricts shipments,

https://www.fasttech.com/product/8002700-aspire-k2-quick-800mah-starter-kit

Huh, I'd thought the Aspire was VV, but appears not in this link. Any idea what voltage the non VV are, or is there a way to find out in specs? My norm is to use 3.2 pretty much exclusively and only ramp up to 3.7 when a coil nears end of life. I could probably tolerate 3.2 in non vv, particularly if I'm using a better tank/coil system, but would be fearful of it being too little voltage as a permanent setting.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

You will be hard-pressed to find 18mg 50/50 juice made with freebase nicotine in a local shop (but it could be possible). The juice market has changed in that if you want freebase juice, the vast majority only come in under 18mg and in 70VG thinnest as the market believes that any vapers who vape freebase juice today are high powered cloud chasers who want <10mg juice in high VG (although this is not true of course), so they push low powered vapers to salt nic. To get 50/50, you will mostly find Salt Nic (aka Nic Salt) juice in 20MG or higher, all the way up to 50mg, which is insane.

There are exceptions I guess, but this is the rule these days with 99% of commercial juice brands.

Even though you are not planning on making your own juice right now, but plan to in the future out of necessity, you have to buy your nic base now as it may not be available later or it might be taxed at $2,800 per liter. No joke. It has legally been put on the table in the federal govt at least 2 times now, but has died every time. And that is on top of any state vapor taxes your state may have. It's only a matter of time until a federal tax is reintroduced into some year-end bill and finally passes. Also, you have the USPS ban to deal with and then state bans. Veteran vapers who are just now feeling the squeeze of government may not have the liberty to "just buy nic base later when I figure it out".

That said, TBD Liquids still sells 50/50 freebase juice and you can custom order 18mg. I believe that EC Blend Flavors also sells it but last I checked (last year) their shipping was ridiculously high. I also don't know if either one ships to MN.