TPA molecules?

[Bahnzo]

Has anyone used these from TPA? They seem very interesting and potentially useful for mixing tobacco flavors. I did a search and unless I missed something, there's almost no discussion here on these.....

Perfumers Apprentice - Molecules used in Tobacco Blends

They seem kind of intimidating. For instance:

Ethyl Guaiacol 1% (PG)
taste description:
at 30.00 ppm. Woody, smokey and spicy with a sweet vanilla background

30 parts per million? How would you mix that...or am I missing something obvious?

 

[NCC]

Wow, thanks for the heads up, that's pretty interesting stuff.

On the Ethyl Guaiacol. Seems to be sold at 1% in PG.

My math is rusty, but I'm thinking

Mixing 30ml juice. 1% of 1,000,000 = 10,000.
0.1ml of that solution in 30ml of juice is 33ppm of the flavoring 'molecules'.

I've been wrong before, but that seems to work. For larger mixes, it would be less critical, but my 1ml syringe is graduated to 0.02ml so that would get it down to 7ppm per 0.02ml solution in a 30ml batch.

Unless I missed a decimal place, which I've done before.

 

[Nikhil]

The best method for using very strong concentrates that you need to use at amounts that are too small to properly dispense is to pre-dilute it in extra PG. There is a link to a thread discussing it in step 6 of the primer in my guide (post 3).

NCC's math is correct, however the 30ppm description is not necessarily accurate for vaping, it is for tasting apparently.

 

[NCC]

NCC's math is correct, however the 30ppm description is not necessarily accurate for vaping, it is for tasting apparently.

So, for vaping ... my guess is that more than 30ppm is appropriate. If so, how can you judge it?

 

[Bahnzo]

The best method for using very strong concentrates that you need to use at amounts that are too small to properly dispense is to pre-dilute it in extra PG. There is a link to a thread discussing it in step 6 of the primer in my guide (post 3).

NCC's math is correct, however the 30ppm description is not necessarily accurate for vaping, it is for tasting apparently.

Right...but what I'm really interested in is if anyone has actually tried these and what experience they've had with it. Just reading the descriptions of some of these makes me think they could be the key to making some very interesting tobacco/cigar/pipe liquids.

 

[Nikhil]

Oh, well then... redgirl has tried them at least. http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/102665-acetyl-pyrazine.html

 

[Bahnzo]

Oh, well then... redgirl has tried them at least. http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/102665-acetyl-pyrazine.html

Thanks..a bit of info there. Doesn't seem like many have tried these yet. There's also a link on the page that explains the molecules....

Tobacco Flavors

I'm just starting to read as much as I can about DIY before I jump in, but this seems like something best left to those more experienced than I.

 

[NCC]

I've dabbled in DIY. Maybe I don't have a handle on it quite yet. But, reading the ingredients on the commerically prepared juices, which admittedly have an edge over my homemade concoctions, I can't help but notice a long list of ingredients. When Googled, they are mostly flavors. Not blueberry, or butterscotch, but more exotic items such as listed on the site you cited. There's a reason people continue to pay a dollar (or more) per milliliter, IMO. The professional brews are complex, and they're mostly better than what I have been able to come up with with more simple ingredients.

 

[48lowes]

seems like something best left to those more experienced than I.

I believe this is slightly understated, but I would like to defer to Scubabatdan. Heeeeeeeeelp pleeeeeeeeese

30 parts per million? How would you mix that...or am I missing something obvious?

You haven't missed anything that I haven't missed.

The best method for using very strong concentrates that you need to use at amounts that are too small to properly dispense is to pre-dilute it in extra PG.

PureVapes may have nailed it.

I'm just starting to read as much as I can about DIY before I jump in

I can speak with authority on this one.
#1. do not jump in with a fist full of C-notes $$$$$$$$.
#2. purchase in the smaller sizes from PA there are many posts to follow in this regard.
#3. do an advanced search on Scubabatdan
#4. refer to #1, do as I say not as I do

wishing your DIY endeavors to be mostly successful, I believe you are on the right track

 

[redgirl]

I now add acetyl pyrazine to almost every mix! It is nutty tasting, but I think it adds another dimension to sweeter flavors. I also add guaiacol to tobaccos. It is very smokey, kinda like liquid smoke.

I just got linalool and trimethyl pyrazine in. I haven't added them to anything yet. The linalool is a floral/fruity note that I'm kinda scared to use because I don't want my mix turning out perfumey, but who knows what it will do? I know it's in VS juices. I got to do some more expirimenting with them yet.

 

[GoodDog]

I also use the acetyl pyrazine in many of my richer flavors. It does well in chocolates and klua types but I haven't tried it in fruits.

Here's the description from PA:
"taste description:
at 10.00 ppm. Roasted, nutty, bready and yeasty, with popcorn and corn chip nuances. good for graham cracker flavors (enhancer)"

others:

"Trimethyl Pyrazine 10% (S)
heart/mid note
nutty musty earthy powdery cocoa roasted peanut
Taste Description: Raw, musty, nutty, potato

"Aldehyde C-18 COCONUT
base note - V.P 4
Creamy coconut, fruity in dilution.
can use up to 10% of total concentrate
taste description:
at 10.00 ppm. Coconut, creamy, waxy with fatty milky notes
(use at 10% or 1% dilution)

Gamma-octalactone
sweet,creamy,dairy,fatty,oily,coconut
can use up to 12% of total fragrance concentrate
taste description:
Lactonic, coconut, creamy, toasted, coumarin, fruity, apricot and peach
(use at 10% or 1% dilution)

Dihydrocoumarin 10% (PG)
Sweet, creamy, vanilla, coconut and milky

Guaiacol 1% (PG)
phenolic smoke spice
Can use up to 2 ppm in a flavor concentrate (refers to undiluted guaiacol)

I found this information that I thought might be of interest to those sensitive to coumarin found in some cinnamon: BfR - Selected Questions about coumarin in cinnamon and other foods

 

[Bahnzo]

I now add acetyl pyrazine to almost every mix! It is nutty tasting, but I think it adds another dimension to sweeter flavors. I also add guaiacol to tobaccos. It is very smokey, kinda like liquid smoke.

I just got linalool and trimethyl pyrazine in. I haven't added them to anything yet. The linalool is a floral/fruity note that I'm kinda scared to use because I don't want my mix turning out perfumey, but who knows what it will do? I know it's in VS juices. I got to do some more expirimenting with them yet.

Care to share how much you add? Thanks for the info!

 

[redgirl]

Care to share how much you add? Thanks for the info!

Usually just one drop, maybe 2 for 3 & 6ml batches.

 

[Bahnzo]

I got an order of these molecules yesterday from TPA. Names - TPA flavor description.

Caryophyllene oxide 1% - woody-spicy
Eugenol - sweet spicy clove woody
Acetyl Pyrazine 10% - Roasted, nutty, bready and yeasty, with popcorn and corn chip nuances
Guaiacol 1% - phenolic smoke spice
Ethyl Guaiacol 1% - Woody, smokey and spicy with a sweet vanilla background
Trimethyl Pyrazine 10% - Raw, musty, nutty, potato

I tried the Acetyl Pyrazine first. I made a 10ml bottle of my honey tobacco and used 2 drops. It definitely adds something, but I'm not getting a nutty taste from it. But it's there; after letting it rest overnight and trying it today, it does have a slight nutty smell to it but not a clear nutty taste. I'll have to let it sit another day and see if it improves. I'm afraid to add another drop as it definitely toned down the tobacco/honey and I don't want to overpower it.

I added the Caryophyllene oxide to a 5ml batch of FA CamT Ultimate that I thought was a little weak at 2% flavor. Just one drop. It certainly added a bit of woody/spice (like the description) but not sure it's something to be used with a flavoring like CamT. It might be better used with a juice made with diluted TA to add notes to it.

That's all for now. I'll mess with the others here and there when I make more tobacco juices.

 

[NCC]

I was ignored in my earlier posts (shrugged off, in my view). So, I'm sure this will be ignored too. But, why do they call these chemical solutions, 'molecules'?

 

[Bahnzo]

Because that's exactly what they are They are isolated molecules, diluted in PG to make them usable.

 

[NCC]

Because that's exactly what they are They are isolated molecules, diluted in PG to make them usable.

That's my point. It is a solution. One percent of the molecules in a solution. If it were the pure chemical, it would be called a chemical, a pure substance. And, would be far too difficult to use. They make it easier to use by providing it in a one percent solution. Just seems really gimmicky to me, to call this solution "molecules".

 

[Bahnzo]

That's my point. It is a solution. One percent of the molecules in a solution. If it were the pure chemical, it would be called a chemical, a pure substance. And, would be far too difficult to use. They make it easier to use by providing it in a one percent solution. Just seems really gimmicky to me, to call this solution "molecules".

don't know why that would be a problem, but whatever I guess. They are isolated flavor molecules diluted in PG (usually) to make them usable. I don't think it's a "gimmick" at all, it's what they are.

 

[NCC]

I guess there's no point in arguing the point. You and the others don't see a problem with it.

Caryy on.

 

[sjohnson]

It looks to me that PA chose to call them "molecules" to distinguish them from (the more complex) "flavors." Simple marketing to ensure a distinction between a flavor component ("molecule") and a developed, mixed flavor.