FDA TVECA post table of contents for Deeming Final Rule

[kbeam418]

The end times are here, the only solution is to get a mech mod, and an RTA/RDA. You can make your' own juice PG/VG won't be illegal, flavoring is used in foods, not too sure about nicotine though. Sigelei, Yihi, Eleaf, are multi-million dollar companies they'll release new products again, Johnson Creek will still manufacture juice I bet, they've been around before 2007. Good luck to ever body!

I'll be making my own juice, I've got a mech tube mod for the long term hell I'll build a mod out of maglight if need be. My next purchase will be a Kayfun.

 

[Racehorse]

They may not want to pet that dog. Anyway I am just speculating.

Regards
mike

I think that is good speculation.

Look, all they want is the easy way to tax money....that means boxes of pre made eliquid with batch numbers on them, with child proof bottles and probably some additional labelling......because the way Asa Hutchinson did it was brilliant, because absolutely NOTHING had to be changed or rewritten. They already had the licensing in place to sell and tax "tobacco products" and all they did was add vapor products to the tobacco products stable. !!!!

And that is specifically WHY hardware and DIY stuff was not included in the law. Because it would be a NIGHTMARE to keep track of........(and anyone who thinks that Asa Hutchinson with his back ground in Homeland Security doesn't understand the ins and outs of that part, need to think again. )

From what I can see, most states as well as the Big Vaping outfits are following a certain pattern. If you guys think its for no reason, and that anyone wants vaping to "just go away", well, I really can't even imagine why that would be a MOTIVATION.

Motive is always 99% of the mix of any action, there has to be intent and motive and I'm just not seeing it in the scenarios some of you are putting forth.

I could be just as wrong as I think you are though....... since we are all just speculating after all

 

[cllmda]

Just to complete the scenery, here in Spain we're trying to counteract a draft of regulation which, over all the facts correctly stated by cllmda, it dares to ban all publicity-related activities of vaping. In a surprising and disturbing twist, Spanish regulators have proposed to ban public meetings and hangouts of vapers, any kind of publicity and marketing related to vaping in any media, and any kind of defence of vaping (as it were a criminal offense), effectively going far beyond today and future regulations for tobacco. It carries us back in time to darker times of dictatorial regimes. All for the allegedly sake of public health, as if they were fully convinced that vaping is far worse than smoking.

yes,I didnt mention this but it's the same here, all vape forums, vape meets etc would be BANNED under the "indirect publicity" rule.....

 

[Racehorse]

Not only that, they've "borrowed" money on future revenue from MSA - via bonds that are at or nearing 'junk' status. Imagine if the 22-23% adult smokers from early 2000's which have gone to 15.7?% now, continues to drop at that rate.

Years of anti smoking campaigns sealed that deal. That was happening already before vaping.

Which is the reason I don't think they will turn down the cash.

yes,I didnt mention this but it's the same here, all vape forums, vape meets etc would be BANNED under the "indirect publicity" rule.....

I think bringing in Spain, UK etc. is not applicable in a topic about a NATIONAL call to action, that operative "national" word concerns the nation of the USofA. Regulatory environments elsewhere operate quite differently and for different reasons, the same reason why that, despite that some of the wealthiest thoroughbred race horse breeders and owners hail from places like Dubai, yet if I go to their racetrack I can't WAGER on the horses because gambling is not legal. It is a completely different situation as to why that is, compared to why that is in states in the US that disallow gambling.

 

[scaredmice]

yes,I didnt mention this but it's the same here, all vape forums, vape meets etc would be BANNED under the "indirect publicity" rule.....

YES, the forums....

I'm sure of the sensation of disbelief that this could give to our American friends, but that's the overall tone, far beyond 'nannyfornia', meeting the Old Inquisition, that perspires from the drafts: to gag vapers by any means necessary to avoid the expansion of what they sell as some evil infection...[emoji53]

And in full 21th century... [emoji35]

Tapatalking...Mind those lampposts!

 

[CbrVapeRR]

By all means please sign the petitions, but also please, please make sure you do what the Call To Action asks for.

Petitions signed!
Your message for "Support H.R. 2058 which would change the grandfather date for newly deemed tobacco products" was sent on 10/28/2015 16:15 PM to the following recipients: President Barack Obama (D-), Sen. Mike Lee (R-UT), Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-UT), Rep. Rob Bishop (R-UT)
Still redialing...

 

[collinsmcrae]

The Items that I Listed are Not going anywhere. The FDA is Not going to be Regulating 18650 Batteries or Cotton Balls if they are Not Marketed to be used Specifically for an e-Cigarette.

But Do Not Fool Yourself when it comes to the FDA Not Knowing what is going on.

The FDA reads this Forum more than Most Vaper's do. And is Very Knowledgeable as to what is Posted here and the Industry in General.

I can't agree with this. Judging by some of the language that they use to describe what we do, and the vape industry, it seems to me that they have their head up their .... I don't think that they bother to read much of anything here, because they simply don't care enough. As long as they can get 90% of vapers to conform to regulations, which are mostly made up of mass market ego style and cigalike vapers, then it's mission accomplished. Anything beyond basic control and regulations of obvious vape products, is going to cost too much time, effort and dollars. I'd even be willing to wager that Chinese mods will be too dificult to control as well. Most people don't want to carry around a brick anyway. Stick a flashlight head on a DNA 200 device, and let's see what kind of fight the FDA actually puts up to dispute it. Can the FDA really say that all tech that measures ohms and delivers variable power to whatever one may wish is under their control? This country has its problems, but we are not living in North Korea.

 

[zoiDman]

I can't agree with this. Judging by some of the language that they use to describe what we do, and the vape industry, it seems to me that they have their head up their .... I don't think that they bother to read much of anything here, because they simply don't care enough. As long as they can get 90% of vapers to conform to regulations, which are mostly made up of mass market ego style and cigalike vapers, then it's mission accomplished. Anything beyond basic control and regulations of obvious vape products, is going to cost too much time, effort and dollars. I'd even be willing to wager that Chinese mods will be too dificult to control as well. Most people don't want to carry around a brick anyway. Stick a flashlight head on a DNA 200 device, and let's see what kind of fight the FDA actually puts up to dispute it. Can the FDA really say that all tech that measures ohms and delivers variable power to whatever one may wish is under their control? This country has its problems, but we are not living in North Korea.

Perhaps if you have followed what the FDA has published about "Intended Use" you would have a Different Opinion.

Here is a Good Thread you might consider Reading...

https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/threads/big-news-coming-out-of-fda.703013/

 

[scotdc]

Per my calculations, 1 liter of 100 mg/ml nicotine base should last me about 5.5 years (at 4-5 ml per day, 10-12 mg/ml, roughly).

Love It! I'm an 18mg nic guy now, hoping to cut down to 15 first.

1 liter = 1000 grams
At 15mg nic, you need 4.66 grams of 100mg nic base in a 30ml e juice bottle.
1000 grams/4.66 grams = 214 30ml bottles
4.5 ml X 365 days = 1642.5 ml vaped per year
1642ml = 54 bottles per year

I'm looking at about 4 years on a liter myself, I'll cut the first bottle down to 3 years because there's a lot of experimentation going on as you learn to DIY (I've been doing it about 2 months now and there is a definite learning curve). VapersTek here I come.

 

[scotdc]

I'm not a big fan of Mech mods, much harder to control the vape for someone like me who likes low wattage vapes. I plan to stock up on Provari's though, they are without a doubt the toughest and longest-lasting variable wattage devices on the market.

 

[Katya]

I'm not a big fan of Mech mods, much harder to control the vape for someone like me who likes low wattage vapes. I plan to stock up on Provari's though, they are without a doubt the toughest and longest-lasting variable wattage devices on the market.

Right. But that's hoping that ProVape will stay in business to service our ProVaris should something go wrong with the chipset. No chipset will last forever.

If ProVape closes its doors, we're totally screwed.

 

[Katya]

YES, the forums....

I'm sure of the sensation of disbelief that this could give to our American friends, but that's the overall tone, far beyond 'nannyfornia', meeting the Old Inquisition, that perspires from the drafts: to gag vapers by any means necessary to avoid the expansion of what they sell as some evil infection...[emoji53]

And in full 21th century... [emoji35]

Tapatalking...Mind those lampposts!

 

[Major Meatwad]

Perhaps if you have followed what the FDA has published about "Intended Use" you would have a Different Opinion.

Here is a Good Thread you might consider Reading...

https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/threads/big-news-coming-out-of-fda.703013/

Explains the document of proposed "wording of marketing" of "tobacco products. Companies need to be know what they can and cannot say.

I did however discover an interesting bright point!
Summary of Executive Order 12866

"http://www2.epa.gov/laws-regulations/summary-executive-order-12866-regulatory-planning-and-review"
Thanks Clinton!
It provides that significant regulatory actions be submitted for review to the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs (OIRA) in the Office of Management and Budget (OMB). A "significant regulatory action," as defined by the E.O., generally is any regulatory action that is likely to result in a rule that may:

• Have an annual effect on the economy of $100 million or more or adversely affect in a material way the economy, a sector of the economy, productivity, competition, jobs, the environment, public health or safety, or State, local, or tribal governments or communities

Meaning, if a FDA regulation or any government agency regulation causes 100 million or adjusted inflation to $144 million dollar effect on the economy, the OIRA must review and approve of it. The OIRA is part of the OMB which is run by the executive branch (The President).

Forcing mandatory pre-approval of all devices/liquids would instantly hit the 150 million mark.

So guess what? At least at this point it needs to go through the President so we know whom to blame if the FDA gets their way.

Better make sure the new President Elect is "Pro Vaping". 2016 is Hyper critical!

So far only Bernie Sanders seems the most liberal to not blow smoke our way.

But who knows. we should make it a talking point this elect term whether:

Pro-Cig or Pro-Life(Vape)

 

[zoiDman]

...

So guess what? At least at this point it needs to go through the President so we know whom to blame if the FDA gets their way.

...

What I find somewhat Amusing is the name Sylvia Mathews Burwell is mentioned on the ECF Very Rarely.

 

[pennysmalls]

The kind of profits the tobacco products bring in has been waning for 20 years, since less people are smoking. That happened before vaping, by the way. They just aren't getting the tax money they used to.


There was a lot of work done in many states, and here, fashioning local and regional bans. When fashioning his ban the gov of AR specifically referred to ejuice as a tobacco product and brought them under that title so that they could be taxed........

and that tax vote was specifically put off sometime into the future at least 2 years from now.

Why do you think that is? Because at the time there was no FDA rule yet, but the ducks are being put in a row to have that tax $$ coming in.


So all these politicians in the know, including ours who has a long history with homeland security and one might argue, is in the know.......they were just making legislation for fun, not to reach any real goal...... which is to get tax money from vaping?

Sorry, I don't buy that they want vaping to go away. If anything they will be grabbing onto it like the new lifeline that it is for them to gather tax dollars.


I've also been watching "Big Vaping" and by their actions (also spending a lot to get ducks in a row) it certainly looks like some of the well connected ones have had more than their finger on the pulse, they have had actual "sit downs" with "people in the know" and their legal/regulatory teams have fashioned their entire trajectory of product line into a very clearly discernable pattern. (one that will come close to meeting proposed FDA requirements )


I am a business watcher, when rumors were going on at my job (we were publically traded) I always tried to look at how the people who had the big investments were behaving.........not the rumor mill in the coffee lounge.





Interesting how that coincides exactly with the time alottment Asa Hutchinson gave before putting out a vote to tax eliquids........."regulated but not taxed for at least 2 years" uh-huh.

I disagree. Here in Indiana legislation was passed that's shutting down vape shops and in July next summer we won't be able to buy juice online. Some can argue that the shops who can't meet the new requirements shouldn't be in business anyway for whatever reason, opinions will vary, but if this trend spreads and other states follow suit there won't be many vape shops left to tax. If there are any shops in Indiana like the kind you mention, the ones getting their ducks in a row, I have yet to hear of one. Those out of state will do us no good because we won't be able to legally buy their product. So no windfall in tax dollars will be coming to those shops from Indiana. So not a very smart move if the goal is to set up future cash flow to replace lost cigarette taxes and I feel pretty confidant that if the goal was the tax dollars those "in the know" or with other ties to the FDA would have let Indiana know in no uncertain terms that Indiana's plans didn't mesh with the overall goal. But what do I know? I'm just sitting in the coffee lounge observing.

 

[SlushPuppy]

Letter written to my congressional rep. And signed the petition.

 

[cllmda]

I think bringing in Spain, UK etc. is not applicable in a topic about a NATIONAL call to action, that operative "national" word concerns the nation of the USofA. Regulatory environments elsewhere operate quite differently and for different reasons, the same reason why that, despite that some of the wealthiest thoroughbred race horse breeders and owners hail from places like Dubai, yet if I go to their racetrack I can't WAGER on the horses because gambling is not legal. It is a completely different situation as to why that is, compared to why that is in states in the US that disallow gambling.

First of all comparing what happens in WESTERN European democracies to the way things function in countries like Dubai....?...doesnt seem to make a very valid paralell IMO

The reason I brought it up is because the proposals brought up in the US and those about to come into effect in the EU are very similar and clearly going in the same direction !

BT, BP and their interests are GLOBAL and the motivation behind all this ($$$$$ for the gov and for their "allies" ie. these big companies) is too!

Here we "missed" the opportunity to do something about this regulation (the EURO TPD) while it was still possible....

....mainly due to complacency+ the lack of information of the "general" vaping public who didnt know what was being prepared (and/or didnt believe it could really happen in a "free",democratic country) and for all these various reasons FAILED TO ACT !

Result ? Ours have already been voted and, in some countries, sometimes even applied!

To sum it up,the motivation behind my post was to say :

WATCH OUT.... THIS CAN HAPPEN TO YOU TOO if you DONT ACT NOW !

and for that reason I feel it absolutely does have it's place in a US call to action thread!

 

[Stephen1520]

So why exactly was today picked to be the Call to Action day? Are they voting on it today?

 

[zoiDman]

So why exactly was today picked to be the Call to Action day? Are they voting on it today?

No Voting. Probably a Date was Set so that Extra Staffers could be Brought in.

Yesterday was the ANTI e-Cigarette CTA Day.

 

[Stephen1520]

Thanks @zoiDman