What happens to vaping when BT decides to do nothing? I.e. offer up no new products or juice...even take Vuze off the market. It's a clever way to shut down the industry, make it so expensive to put out new products/juice that the only companies who can afford to do it are the ones that want vaping completely gone. *Poof* we're all dinosaurs!
FDA TVECA post table of contents for Deeming Final Rule
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What happens to vaping when BT decides to do nothing? I.e. offer up no new products or juice...even take Vuze off the market. It's a clever way to shut down the industry, make it so expensive to put out new products/juice that the only companies who can afford to do it are the ones that want vaping completely gone. *Poof* we're all dinosaurs!
yup... we arent happy now... wait until we run out of nic, then they will see unhappy 
While I tend to agree that, presuming this is all implemented as-is, there won't be immediate action against DIYers - I'd suggest any DIYer who runs afoul of any other law will unfairly see anything related to vaping heaped on top of any charges or innuendo already at play. Overcriminalization is a serious issue in that regard and 'intent to distribute' is one of the most arbitrary of those issues we could see trickle into DIYers lives. That 120mL bottle of nicotine? Intent. That roll of kanthal. Intent. Etc.
So aside from the obvious implications, it's all the unknown gaps that turn into the little personal nightmares. -Mags
So aside from the obvious implications, it's all the unknown gaps that turn into the little personal nightmares. -Mags
I too fear that this battle was lost before it even started. They are going to do what they want to do regardless of anything that "we the people" have to say about it.
Thing is that when it is all said and done, I want to know that I did everything in my power to at least try to change it. Not someone sitting around with my head in the sand hoping that it will all just go away
I understand and agree with not laying down 100%. The truth is though unless the vaping community is throwing money around like the NRA, it's going to be a losing fight.
The only reason guns, tobacco, and even in some states {OTHER STUFF} is legal is 2 reasons... Lobby money and taxes. Ecigs aren't producing enough of either. I know they generate tax money bit not like they would if labeled like and taxed like tobacco.
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I have been saying for some time this is a all or nothing deal for the FDA.
One of the main reasons I believe which a lot of people have ignored or
misunderstood is for a little more than a year every report on the industry's
economic growth has been substantially higher than the previous figures
predicted for the same time period. The industry is not experiencing any
thing like the so called 'Wild West Days'. It was always about corralling the
money running helter skelter around the area.
If the industry had just three more years to mature it would be virtually unstoppable.
To date there is zero health related issues other than possible allergic reactions.
Zero. The industry responded by introducing VG for those that are sensitive to PG.
The battery safety issue is a non-factor. If you abuse your equipment accidents will
(not might) happen.(I am not against any form of vaping just stating a fact)
R/C users cause many fires a year charging their battery packs with some of these
fires resulting in death. I am not aware of any R/C vendor or battery manufacturer
ever being taken to task for this damage. There hasn't even been a single case reported
of any pathogen being spread by e-juice. Not one. Compare that with municipal tap
water.
So here we are today watching as the FDA makes e-cigarettes the most highly regulated
consumer OTC product ever aside from maybe the auto industry. Comparing a e-cigarette
to a automobile is like comparing a wing nut to a fully loaded Freightliner going down
hill with no brakes in terms of any health concerns.
Regards
Mike
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By all means please sign the petitions, but also please, please make sure you do what the Call To Action asks for.
I should mention this here...
There's some very odd smoke and mirrors coming out of TVECA. I'm not sure what they're up to, but they've "released" an FDA industry guidance document which, on closer examination, is an old document from 2014.
I've had calls from several people doubting the veracity of the Table of Contents, but on the whole I'm satisfied it's genuine. Tveca are also saying now that they'll release the whole document 100 pages at a time - who knows, perhaps they will - I'll keep this thread current if they do.
Regardless, now is the time for vapers to cause a stink. The deeming is on the desk of OMB, and I've spoken to someone who has seen the whole thing, and who says unequivocally that it's "worse than the previous proposal".
There's some very odd smoke and mirrors coming out of TVECA. I'm not sure what they're up to, but they've "released" an FDA industry guidance document which, on closer examination, is an old document from 2014.
I've had calls from several people doubting the veracity of the Table of Contents, but on the whole I'm satisfied it's genuine. Tveca are also saying now that they'll release the whole document 100 pages at a time - who knows, perhaps they will - I'll keep this thread current if they do.
Regardless, now is the time for vapers to cause a stink. The deeming is on the desk of OMB, and I've spoken to someone who has seen the whole thing, and who says unequivocally that it's "worse than the previous proposal".
Here is my sincere, heartfelt letter to FDA hotshot Stephen Ostroff. Gee, Ma. He's a REAL DOCTOR. Ooooohhhhhh. Maybe he'll get a laugh out of it. Probably not. He's a bean-pusher, or is it pencil-counter? Anyway, you get the idea...
That would have been Japan that did that
The Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Why? When?
Not many Animal House fans in this thread.
I thought it was hilarious.
Been on redial for about an hour and a half now. Hoping the busy signal means that vapers are clogging up their lines
I am getting a lot of emails from vendors about this. I am glad to see that they are helping to spread the word.
News story tomorrow.Been on redial for about an hour and a half now. Hoping the busy signal means that vapers are clogging up their lines
VAPING ROBOTS CLOG WHITE HOUSE PHONE SYSTEM
Mike
Perhaps there is some Confusion here due to the use of an Acronym?
DIY is the common Acronym that we use for the act of making Flavored e-Liquids by an Individual themselves from Unflavored Nicotine Base.
I see Nothing, or have seen Nothing in the past, from the FDA that make any distinctions between the Sale of Finished Flavored e-Liquids or the Sale of Unflavored Nicotine Base to the End Consumer.
There was Wordage in the TVECA PMTA Guidance that said that Raw Ingredients Not for Sale to the End User would Not Fall under the Requirements as e-Liquids that are Sold to the End User.
But that Doesn't do Vaper's or "DIY'ers" much good. Seeing that Most People do Not have a Wholesale License. And can Not Show that they would be Purchasing Unflavored Nicotine Base for the purpose of Making Finished e-liquids. Or Reselling the Unflavored Nicotine Base (acting as a Broker/Distributor) to someone who does.
From the National CTA Thread by Robino1 ...
Alternate number: 202-456-1414
That is the main switchboard. Tell them you are trying to comment on the FDA Deeming and e-cigarettes. They will put you through to the right place. Just listen to all the recordings and don't hang up. You will get a live person.
That's how I got through.
https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/f...ite-house-on-10-28-2015.709689/#post-16781810
Alternate number: 202-456-1414
That is the main switchboard. Tell them you are trying to comment on the FDA Deeming and e-cigarettes. They will put you through to the right place. Just listen to all the recordings and don't hang up. You will get a live person.
That's how I got through.
https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/f...ite-house-on-10-28-2015.709689/#post-16781810
Which is why eliquid has been classified as a tobacco product.
So what ya'll are saying is that eliquid has been classified as a tobacco product for the sole reason of making tax dollars, because states DESPERATELY need the tax money........
But.... they are going to kill the cash cow
It depends on how they implement the regulations. Agency's have been known to use selective enforcement.
I was thinking along the lines of keeping diy'ers happy as from what I can tell they are probably the
most astute at whats going on politically. They will have two years to see which way the wind is blowing.
If the DIY appears to be a non-factor they very well may ignore them. This makes sense if in fact its true
that 90% of the population will just follow the law as usually happens.
I am not aware of any regulations as of this time that attempts to regulate the materials many have
already stock piled. They may not want to pet that dog. Anyway I am just speculating.
Regards
mike
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