TWO Years into Vapping AND.....

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PaulB

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I think this entire thread is as fascinating a Rorschach of attitudes about smoking/vaping as I've ever seen on this forum.

As long as I've been vaping and been here, I have always suspected that the actively posting members of ECF are unrepresentative of the larger universe of people who have incorporated the e-cigarette into their lives. I'll bet if you could poll all e-cig users who have never been to ECF or people who joined but have seldom or never visited since (much less, posted)--subtracting those who bought one and immediately abandoned it, you would find a majority are e-cig users who still smoke. Of them, some have probably reduced their smoking dramatically, others not at all.

I'm in the "dramatically-reduced" category. I started with an e-cig out of curiosity, not knowing whether it would be a quit aid, a cutting-down aid, or something to get me through those times and places where I can't smoke. In 40+ years of 1+ ppd, I had never felt desperate to become a non-smoker, although in recent years trudging a couple hundred yards in waist-deep snow had started to tax my breathing and make me think. I've plateaued over the last eight months or so to a very reliable level of four or five cigarettes a day. This nearly always means no cigarettes after 7 a.m. (by which time I've always smoked two) and none before 8 p.m.

I like my routine because:

1. I like the taste of cigarettes and (get this!) the smell of smoke.

2. I can feel the improvement in my breathing and dramatically less coughing.

3. I'm saving money, having pretty much stabilized my hardware and settled on an incredibly cheap liquid choice.

4. This way I don't qualify to become an insufferable ex-smoker/anti-smoker of the kind I've always abhorred. I like smokers too much to want to be mean to them. I was raised by smokers: I just figured out that 75% of the generation that raised me (parents, aunts, uncles) smoked. Some died of it; some didn't. This is to say, whether I'm a smoker or not, given the choice of being made to live on a desert island where everybody else was 100% smokers or 100% non-smokers, I'd go with the smokers. Does nicotine promote an even temperament and a tolerant attitude? Sometimes I think so.

5. Health? As far as the various smoking-related cancers go, I strongly suspect that die was cast for me decades ago. I've heard of too many long-time ex-smokers who developed lung cancer. We'll see. As for the respiratory diseases, I do hope, and have at least some personal evidence to believe, that with more vaping and less smoking I've at least slowed down the rate at which those overtake me. If I've done so long enough for something else to do me in first, I win.

6. Addiction? At this stage of my life, I'm not that concerned about it as a thing in itself. I'm imperfect in many ways. I'll bet most here are.

In short, I'm feeling considerable incredulity over the incredulity of many of the reactions to the original post.
 
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DC2

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We can sit around all day talking about how "oh I just like smoking" bull.... it's a nasty smelly gross habit with exactly one redeeming quality. That it delivers the drug we crave.
Although that may be true for you, it's not true for everybody.

There are tons of us that love smoking for a lot of reasons other than the nicotine...
--For an excuse to take a break
--For an excuse to get away from situations
--For an opportunity to get away with your thoughts
--To satisfy a need to keep your hands busy
--To satisfy a need to keep your mouth busy

I smoked somewhere between 3 and 10 cigarettes per day, for 27 years.
But I could go entire days without smoking and not even think twice about it.

I smoked for most of the reasons listed above.
I didn't smoke for the nicotine.
 

DC2

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This is to say, whether I'm a smoker or not, given the choice of being made to live on a desert island where everybody else was 100% smokers or 100% non-smokers, I'd go with the smokers. Does nicotine promote an even temperament and a tolerant attitude? Sometimes I think so.
I have a hard time tolerating people who have no apparent vices.
They are usually very disturbing people.
 

wrigleyvillain

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Yeah I knew a guy back in college who was by no means unintelligent but pretty much just a burn out and did nothing but party all the time so I didn't take him very seriously. In fact, he died of a smack overdose at 21 back in 1996. Anyway, he said something to me once that has always stuck with me in response to me asking him if he had tried the new American Spirits that just came out on the market "because they don't have all the additives and chemicals". He said "No, I'm addicted to all those other chemicals man" and lit up another Camel Light.
 

Grimloki

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As far as smoking goes.. as far as getting nicotine goes, or even the other things in tobacco, whether that be the experience, smell, or whatever... cigarettes are the worst option.

I'd suggest cig smokers try pipes or cigars if you just want to smoke, but want a healthier alternative. Both are far less dangerous than cigs. They are also delicious, IMO.
 

Levitas

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Although that may be true for you, it's not true for everybody.

There are tons of us that love smoking for a lot of reasons other than the nicotine...
--For an excuse to take a break
--For an excuse to get away from situations
--For an opportunity to get away with your thoughts
--To satisfy a need to keep your hands busy
--To satisfy a need to keep your mouth busy

I smoked somewhere between 3 and 10 cigarettes per day, for 27 years.
But I could go entire days without smoking and not even think twice about it.

I smoked for most of the reasons listed above.
I didn't smoke for the nicotine.

Well, your ability to smoke so little after smoking for so long for only the reasons that you posted only means that you're a minority in cigarette smoking. Some odd 9% or around there of smokers can stop willingly and go seemingly days without one, but I am willing that you always went back? You said yourself, that you bought a pack of cigarettes when your PV wasn't functioning (or whatever) - why?

I am going out on limb here to say that you did smoke for nicotine - perhaps it wasn't the main reason, perhaps you never even realized it but the fact that you always came back to cigarettes shows strong evidence towards a physiological addiction, no matter how strong one's denile of the habit.

None the less - I wish I were like you, the minority of smokers that can take or leave it for the most part. My sister-in-law is like that too, she smokes once every blue moon and never buys a pack - so jealous :)
 

DC2

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You said yourself, that you bought a pack of cigarettes when your PV wasn't functioning (or whatever) - why?
I need cigarettes to enable me to do those things I listed, and without them my quality of life suffers greatly.

I know people will say why don't I just go outside and take a break when I want to.
It doesn't work that way for me, never has, never will.

I can't just sit there and do nothing, it's just not the way I'm built.

I am going out on limb here to say that you did smoke for nicotine - perhaps it wasn't the main reason, perhaps you never even realized it but the fact that you always came back to cigarettes shows strong evidence towards a physiological addiction, no matter how strong one's denile of the habit.
I'll never agree to that, so we'll have to agree to disagree.
:)

Also, I don't believe nicotine is nearly as addictive as everyone always thought it was.
I think the experience of many people on this forum in weaning down their nicotine with suprising ease illustrates that to some extent.

Also, this information posted by someone else really rings true to me...

Nicotine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Technically, nicotine is not significantly addictive, as nicotine administered alone does not produce significant reinforcing properties. However, after coadministration with an MAOI, such as those found in tobacco, nicotine produces significant behavioral sensitization, a measure of addiction potential. This is similar in effect to amphetamine.

Personally, I believe that most of us here greatly underestimate the psychological factors of "smoking" addiction.
 

Levitas

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I'll never agree to that, so we'll have to agree to disagree.
:).

I can agree to this - though, I will assume denile is playing it's hand again :)

Also, I don't believe nicotine is nearly as addictive as everyone always thought it was.I think the experience of many people on this forum in weaning down their nicotine with suprising ease illustrates that to some extent.

Also, this information posted by someone else really rings true to me...


Personally, I believe that most of us here greatly underestimate the psychological factors of "smoking" addiction.


Whoa! Seriously?! It's 100% as addictive as it is said to be. The fact that people are weaning down their nicotine in this forum is because they're not smoking cigarettes so the lack of some ingredients like ammonia and levulinic acid allows the nicotine to stay in its more natural state. This doesn't mean that nicotine is less addictive, it just means while using an e-cig, less nicotine actually reaches the central nervous system, it's still definitely that addictive.

Though I am inclined to agree with that wiki article to an extent. Nicotine never became less addictive though - cigarettes just made nicotine more easily accessible to reach the CNS, is all.

While I agree that a large portion of addiction is due to psychological elements (i.e. conditioning), ignoring the presence of a physiological addiction is just crazy (to me) else why do people (for the most part) generally relapse after smoking only one cigarette (without the help of e-cigs of course) ?
 

mjones

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HAHA thanks, yeah an additional 3 years to sit in my rocking chair one day, and tell the kids to get off my lawn, will be awesome.

Yeah, sorry that was an attempt at a bad joke at 2:45am in the morning. You know what they say, a heart filled with laughter, lives longer. In all honesty, I would enjoy sitting in that rocking chair, can't say what the lawn will look like though.
 

DC2

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I can agree to this - though, I will assume denile is playing it's hand again :)
Of course, as I assumed you would.
:)

Whoa! Seriously?! It's 100% as addictive as it is said to be.
They say it is a harder addiction to break than crack ......., but I don't believe that.
Nobody has ever studied nicotine addiction outside of a cigarette, so nobody can really say for sure.

I do know that there are a fair number of stories on here of people dropping down in nicotine strength extremely fast.
And these people are always very surprised at how easy it is, and wind up questioning how addicted they really were to nicotine.

While I agree that a large portion of addiction is due to psychological elements (i.e. conditioning), ignoring the presence of a physiological addiction is just crazy (to me) else why do people (for the most part) generally relapse after smoking only one cigarette (without the help of e-cigs of course) ?
I didn't say that there is no physiological addiction, just that I don't think it's as bad as it has always been made out to be.
I just think the psychological and ritualistic elements are vastly underestimated.



Looking at my earlier post again...

There are tons of us that love smoking for a lot of reasons other than the nicotine...
I think what I should have said was "lots of reasons besides nicotine..." so as not to cause confusion.
 
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Levitas

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Right on - of course I agree there are lots of reasons people smoke other than nicotine, but you said you didn't smoke because of nicotine. That could be misconstrued as you saying that you held no physiological addiction whatsoever but rather just the psychological aspect of addiction.

Don't get me wrong - the way we're using nicotine now is of course going to be easier to reduce usage as opposed to using cigarettes. We're agreeing for the most part there. I was just saying that nicotine has always been nicotine, and it is extremely addicting (whether or not as addicting to crack, I'm not saying that).

Those peoples who make cigarettes figured out a way to allow more nicotine to reach the CNS, thus it's much harder to quit smoking. We as vapors have it easier and may be able to reduce nicotine, and quickly, because of lack of those additional chemicals. That's all I was saying which in a nutshell was agreeing to an extent with you :)
 

wv2win

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Two years and not a single cigarette. I didn't quit analogs on day one but within a month of starting I was weened particularly after trying one just to see and it tasting like .....

At one point after quitting for about 6 months my wife and I went to a local bar that allows smoking and when walked out I reeked of smoke and I asked her if I used to smell like this when I smoked when she said yes I apologized for putting her through that.

I do think that the e-cig is only a part of the battle. You have to really want to quit the smoking you have to want it bad because while the e-cig can help its not exactly the same thing. There are too many other chemicals in cigarettes (not to mention all the CO2) it's also a hell of a lot of work compared to a cigarette. You have to plan ahead you have to make sure you have plenty of supplies and back ups.

But in the end is it worth it? I think so. Hell it'll probably kill me just like the smokes would have but at least I won't stink.

To the OP I say this, exercise some willpower and drop the cancer sticks, Right now you're just rationalizing and believe me I know we smokers are good at that. I'm not going to give you this feel good nonsense of "what ever works for you" that's bull...., While in the long run we don't know that vaping is perfectly safe we know damned well that smoking most certainly isn't.

You're just making excuses right now. "Oh woe is me the damned e-cig wasn't good enough to make me quit". no it isn't and never will be. It's an aid, it's a crutch, it's just something to help you limp along to your goal. and that's ok that's what crutches are for. But you still have to pull yourself along. You have to make the decision. You have to decide to quit come hell or high water. That doesn't mean to beat yourself to death every time you have a relapse but it also doesn't mean that you just give yourself a pass for being a failure either.

Figure out your triggers see what circumstances make you want a smoke rather than a vape. If possible completely avoid those situations. If you can't then you need to be especially diligent going into them.

Quitting cigarettes isn't easy. If it were no one would smoke. We can sit around all day talking about how "oh I just like smoking" bull.... it's a nasty smelly gross habit with exactly one redeeming quality. That it delivers the drug we crave. We know it has adverse health affects we've seen the results, we've seen the nasty blackened lungs the chronic hacking cough the oxygen bottles. We know that it's a withering wasting death. It kills your sex drive it causes impotence and completely obliterates anything resembling stamina. So obviously so many people continue despite all it's negative effects it's a hell of a monkey to have on your back.

Make sure you have plenty of vaping supplies then go buy a months worth of groceries. Finish your last pack then avoid any situation where you might be tempted to buy a new pack. Pay at the pump don't even walk into a store sells cigarettes avoid any friends who are smokers.

But it's still an exercise in rationalization every time you light up. You have be aware of it and be on guard for it.

If you do fall off the wagon and have a cig don't beat yourself up too much but for the love of life don't have another, The first one will always taste like crap after quitting for a while, but the second won't be as bad and by the 3rd your taste buds are beat up enough that it's like you never quit. So just don't do it.

Take responsibility for your choices. Recognize your rationalizations for what they are and stop caving to them.

No fake sympathy here, I know it's hard but if my weak-willed self can do it anyone should be able to.

Well said. The rationalization part is on target. I did it for years.
 

wv2win

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................I smoked somewhere between 3 and 10 cigarettes per day, for 27 years.
But I could go entire days without smoking and not even think twice about it...........

Then you were never close to being the typical smoker who was/is completely addicted. If I could have gone days and not thought about smoking, I would have quit years ago. But eveyone is different.
 

OMG!

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Being only 98 days into this does not make me a good test case, but I was lucky enough to be one of those who never picked up a cig again after my first puff on the PV. I smoked 1-3 packs a day for over 30 years so I would be considered a hard core smoker. I know that if I ever allow myself even one real cigarette it will be all over for me. Justifying and Rationalizing are my middle names. I do it with eating, shopping, procrastinating, etc... and every other bad habit you can think of. I wish I could say with 100% conviction that I'll never smoke again but I've broken too many promises to myself in the past. Because vaping is not as easy as smoking I've written down some things that I don't want to forget if i ever have a weak moment.... mostly the things I couldn't/wouldn't do because cigs ruled my life.

The one thing this journey has revealed to me is that it's not just the nicotine. I'm down to juices that are 6-11mg now and it feels the same as the 24mg I started with. I'm going to buy some 0mg with my next juice order just to see if I'll even notice. I think one of the reasons that people fail to quit smoking is because they really can't cut down on the nicotine because there aren't cigarettes with consecutively smaller amounts of nicotine. And even if there were 0-nicotine cigs, why bother, they will still kill you. The only way to quit is to cut back on how many you smoke, and we all know how hard that can be.

It's really the hand to mouth thing for me. I used to bite my nails for years but was only able to break that habit by having sculptured nails applied. If I take them off for any length of time I go back to biting. I have to be doing something with my mouth all the time... puffing on the PV, chewing gum, ice, mints, something.

If someone knows a cure for THAT I would really love to know. :laugh:
 

Cil

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Although that may be true for you, it's not true for everybody.

There are tons of us that love smoking for a lot of reasons other than the nicotine...
--For an excuse to take a break
--For an excuse to get away from situations
--For an opportunity to get away with your thoughts
--To satisfy a need to keep your hands busy
--To satisfy a need to keep your mouth busy

I smoked somewhere between 3 and 10 cigarettes per day, for 27 years.
But I could go entire days without smoking and not even think twice about it.

I smoked for most of the reasons listed above.
I didn't smoke for the nicotine.

Sorry to be flippant, but if that's the case don't inhale the smoke. You'll get all of the above and save you're lungs from a load of tar.
 

Vapor

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You can count me in the list of vapers who still smoke. I do however admit that i smoke much less now....im like at 4-5 analogs a week whereas before it was a pack every 2-3 days. I vape 0.6% nicotine concentration by the way.

Part of the reason i still smoke is because its so much less hassle. I light up and go to town.....whereas with an ecig, i have to worry about my batts, juice, attys, etc. Plus the social aspect of it.

Though im recently trying out the 510-T which makes vaping much more hassle free. Coupled with the megadolon in the "mini" mode, which i have yet to try, i think i can start more actively replacing analogs with ecig.

I think definitely the key is making vaping as hassle free as smoking. In this area i think the mods have taken two steps back and one step forward. A lot of them introduce a lot of complexity and hassle....dripping, size and what not....but the amount of vapor they produce rival that of real analogs which most of us are used to and like blowing huge plumes of smoke or vapor.
 

Cil

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I think definitely the key is making vaping as hassle free as smoking. In this area i think the mods have taken two steps back and one step forward. A lot of them introduce a lot of complexity and hassle....dripping, size and what not....but the amount of vapor they produce rival that of real analogs which most of us are used to and like blowing huge plumes of smoke or vapor.

I think you're bang on, people fall into two distinct camps;

1/ I just want a hassle free alternative to smoking.
2/ I want something that I can tinker with, change flavours, make my own bits and pieces, be a bit geeky and that can be a hobby.

I'm number 2, my wife is number 1. This is perfect for me as I get double the hobby and can also try and make vaping as easy for her as possible. :)
 

Levitas

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It's really the hand to mouth thing for me. I used to bite my nails for years but was only able to break that habit by having sculptured nails applied. If I take them off for any length of time I go back to biting. I have to be doing something with my mouth all the time... puffing on the PV, chewing gum, ice, mints, something.

If someone knows a cure for THAT I would really love to know. :laugh:

You could use some form of aversive conditioning - for example, dipping your finger nails in a solution that will make you throw up. Eventually, you'll never bring your hand close enough to your face for anything! (Then again, you might starve if you did this, probably not the best idea). :)
 

phonedude

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I'm just putting this out there for any newbies who may read this thread and get discouraged. I was one of the lucky ones who quit immediately when I had my first vape. I'm two days shy of my 18-month mark and I have no desire to smoke a cigarette. Note that I was smoking at least 1-1.5 PAD for 37+ years, so I was a hardcore smoker. I loved smoking. Now I love vaping instead. You can do it, too.

Thanks for posting this. I was getting just a little discouraged reading all this.
 

mohawkx

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Yeah, I've got to dial in with the positive response. I smoked for 50 years. When I started smoking, we smoked everywhere. Blew smoke in your face at the resturant. smoked on the bus, smoked in the car, smoked at work with the ashtray on the desk. The world was full of smoke all the time. Slowly it became unacceptable to smoke when everybody started to die from it. Everybody's parents were dying in bed as their lungs filled up with fluid and they were drowning. But none of that stopped me. I saw 75 year old men smoking and figured I'd beat the odds. The fact was that for every 75 year old man I saw smoking there were 500 who died at 65 and were now looking at the wrong side of the grass. I tried to quit after I had my carodid arteries operated on. Then I tried to quit when I had my quintuple bypass operation. Then I tried to quit after 4 major operations on my femoral arteries for PAD so I could walk again. Finally when my VA doctor grabbed me by the collar and said, "You're going to die and die very soon if you don't stop smoking" that I bought an e-cig.
After finding this site and doing my homework, I ordered a real e-cig that works and I never touched another cigarette after that e-cig hit my mailbox. And believe it or not, it was easy! As God is my witness.
 
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