Hey said a few moments ago he will talk about the ''smokeless products'' in a second
UPDATE: US Senate Panel Approves FDA Tobacco-Regulation Measure
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I don't understand your comment here about e-cigs not using consumables derived from tobacco. Isn't the nicotine in the electronic cigarettes derived from tobacco? It seems the only hope is if it is. That way it would be a reduced harm tobacco product. This would be good for the tobacco companies also because they can market this reduced harm tobacco product because the bill states that there can be no more tobacco products made that aren't less dangerous than what's already out there.
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Durbin is such a condescending a$$hole. "Believe it or not some senators actually use these little pouches" ---And he pronounced snus as "snooze" --what a f*ckin idiot. If you're going to be making a speech about a product at least know how to pronounce it...
Instead of using facts he's appealing to people's emotions by putting up a picture of a person with a jacked up face from mouth cancer.
It is proven by research that smokeless tobacco is significantly safer than smoking... He sure avoids that fact entirely. This man clearly does not comprehend "harm reduction" ---its not about kids... its about people already addicted looking for safer alternatives.
Instead of using facts he's appealing to people's emotions by putting up a picture of a person with a jacked up face from mouth cancer.
It is proven by research that smokeless tobacco is significantly safer than smoking... He sure avoids that fact entirely. This man clearly does not comprehend "harm reduction" ---its not about kids... its about people already addicted looking for safer alternatives.
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Ok, so Durbin trots out this poor kid who's been through so many surgeries because of cancer that could have been caused by chewing tobacco. Before I go any farther, let me make it clear that I'm not belittling anything the guy is going through with his illness, just pointing out something in Sen. Durbin's presentation.
He states that the kid started using spit tobacco at age 13 in order to fit in. Well, did he start it because he saw an ad? Was it because it was cherry flavored? Was it because he thought it was candy?
No, it was because his friends were using it, and he wanted to fit in with his friends. I would wager that kids start using tobacco 999 times out of 1000 because someone they know uses it and they want to be like them or they've been forbidden from using it and do so to be rebelious. And it drives me absolutely nuts that he's trotting out this story and not offering any proof that this kid would have been protected by provisions of this bill. He's playing the sympathy card, and it's insulting and assinine.
Ivisi
/Yes, I used 2 ss's in assinine, got a problem with that?
He states that the kid started using spit tobacco at age 13 in order to fit in. Well, did he start it because he saw an ad? Was it because it was cherry flavored? Was it because he thought it was candy?
No, it was because his friends were using it, and he wanted to fit in with his friends. I would wager that kids start using tobacco 999 times out of 1000 because someone they know uses it and they want to be like them or they've been forbidden from using it and do so to be rebelious. And it drives me absolutely nuts that he's trotting out this story and not offering any proof that this kid would have been protected by provisions of this bill. He's playing the sympathy card, and it's insulting and assinine.
Ivisi
/Yes, I used 2 ss's in assinine, got a problem with that?
agree w/ both of ya regarding Durbin. He also metnioned about his cousing dying two weeks ago because of smoking. What he fails to comprehend is that his cousin might still be alive if a product such as Camel Orbs would have been around 20 years ago. By banning products such as Camel Orbs he's condemning hundreds of thousands to the same fate as his cousin.
Sen. Chris Dodd now speaking about Tobacco and speaking against Burr's alternative.
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as posted by halopunker in the Burr thread, Burr's amendment is to be voted on today at 4:30 eastern time. Also, the main bill is expected to be voted on next week.
Sen. Jeanne Shaheen (D-NH) is speaking on the floor right now. She's in favor of the bill (and is one of the co-sponsors of the bill).
Sen. Jeanne Shaheen (D-NH) is speaking on the floor right now. She's in favor of the bill (and is one of the co-sponsors of the bill).
Is the nicotine in e-liquid derived from tobacco leafs, or is it from some other source?
Sen. Jeanne Shaheen (D-NH) just claimed that smokeless and spitless products (such as snus) is just as harmful as cigarettes and then proceeded to tell about the kid that got mouth cancer from dipping, trying to pass it off as what happens if you use products such as orbs and snus.
Watch the vote tally and you will see which party actually uses common sense and gives a damn about the US citizens.
Someone has a political agenda, no?
It seems to me that it's better to evaluate each piece of legislation based on its relative merits rather than trying to play a party-based gotcha game.
From tobacco. See also the DeKang thread if you want to check up on that.
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I thought it was from tobacco, but I could be wrong. The lawsuit is trying to show it is a tobacco product.
Either way though, it will probably fall into the drug category and not be seen as a tobacco derivative due to the way the bill is written and references the Federal Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act. We may not stand a chance at all if the bill passes. I was trying to find a way around the drug part even if the bill passes, but it's unlikely unless there is some ammendments made.
If this part right here:
‘(2) The term ‘tobacco product’ does not mean an article that is a drug under subsection (g)(1), a device under subsection (h), or a combination product described in section 503(g).
can't be ammended to exempt the e-cig or other less harmful products, it will be found to be a drug I'm pretty sure.
What bugs me the most is that the cigarette is a drug delivery device and it is exempt. The stupidity of this just burns me up.
‘(3) LIMITATION ON POWER GRANTED TO THE FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION- Because of the importance of a decision of the Secretary to issue a regulation--
‘(A) banning all cigarettes, all smokeless tobacco products, all little cigars, all cigars other than little cigars, all pipe tobacco, or all roll-your-own tobacco products; or
‘(B) requiring the reduction of nicotine yields of a tobacco product to zero,
the Secretary is prohibited from taking such actions under this Act.
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Surf, I am obviously a conservative and you are obviously not. I stated my opinions and neither of us are going to sway each other one way or another.
Agreed. I'm just not sure how productive it is to press a political ideology on this part of the board. Maybe we need a dedicated politics sub-forum.
I love how people can argue even when they're in agreement on an issue.
There's no argument going on here. Just discussion of a side issue.
If a real argument breaks out, you'll know.
Surf Monkey read ingredient lists from your juice, if you cannot find one contact your supplier. I use JC juice, and yes, it is certainly derived from tobacco, something I would insist on. NO to synthetic.
The debate now seems to be over, I have tried watching on C-span, but just haven't the time today. I watched the good Senator from Arizona put in a plea for the amendment, Reid nearly choked. That was at 2:30 central time. Do not know what happened after that. Minority Leader McConnell also Objected to cloture. So noted. Chris Dodd also put in his two cents worth. It's about the Children!!!!!!!!!!!! FDA has jurisdiction over everything except tobacco!! Not heard of!! Ammendments are STUPID, in his opinion. I hope people will look at him and vote for someone else from Connecticut. Get Busy People. THIS MAN HAS FLIPPED OUT, go home!!
The debate now seems to be over, I have tried watching on C-span, but just haven't the time today. I watched the good Senator from Arizona put in a plea for the amendment, Reid nearly choked. That was at 2:30 central time. Do not know what happened after that. Minority Leader McConnell also Objected to cloture. So noted. Chris Dodd also put in his two cents worth. It's about the Children!!!!!!!!!!!! FDA has jurisdiction over everything except tobacco!! Not heard of!! Ammendments are STUPID, in his opinion. I hope people will look at him and vote for someone else from Connecticut. Get Busy People. THIS MAN HAS FLIPPED OUT, go home!!
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According to Dekang, which claims to supply 90% of the e-cig fluid in the world, their nicotine is derived from tobacco, as is many of their flavorings. They also stated that Ruyan uses synthetic nicotine in their products. There was a long thread on the forum in which Dekang made many posts.
The proponents of the bill keep saying how there is nobody regulating tobacco (which as we saw with Burr, that's not the case). Apparently (based on what the ones pushing for this bill to pass as-is have said), the ATF is totally ineffective at doing their job, as well as the Attorney General.
The more I watch, the more P.O.'d I get. Kudos to the senator that threw a wrench into the works. Not sure what he did, but from what was said there is one senator that is holding up the putting of the bill on the floor for a vote.
The more I watch, the more P.O.'d I get. Kudos to the senator that threw a wrench into the works. Not sure what he did, but from what was said there is one senator that is holding up the putting of the bill on the floor for a vote.
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