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Using Citric Acid in DIY

Discussion in 'DIY E-Liquid' started by ChelsB, Dec 9, 2017.

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  1. Rossum

    Rossum Surly Curmudgeon Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Dec 14, 2013
    NE FL
    It may depend on whether it's gaseous (as much of it likely is in tobacco smoke) or still dissolved in a carrier liquid aerosol droplets (as it generally is in our vapes).
     
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  2. Sugar_and_Spice

    Sugar_and_Spice Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Sep 11, 2010
    between here and there
    Making nicotine more potent
    "Increasing the pH of a medium in which nicotine is delivered increases the physiological effect of the nicotine by increasing the ratio of free base to acid salt form, the free base form being more readily transported across physiological membranes. We are pursuing this project with the eventual goal of lowering the total nicotine present in smoke while increasing the physiological effect of the nicotine which is present, so that no physiological effect is lost on nicotine reduction."23(Liggett 1971)
    Seems to suggest both.
     
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  3. pwmeek

    pwmeek Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Oct 8, 2011
    SE Michigan
    "by increasing the ratio of free base [high pH] to acid salt [low pH] form, the free base form being more readily transported across physiological membranes" [[emphasis and comment added]]

    This is what I was referring to. If the nicotine can't get quickly from the aerosol in your mouth, nose, throat, and sinuses, through the mucous membranes, and into your bloodstream, and then to the brain, you aren't going to get that nicotine rush.(Comparatively little nicotine gets into your bloodstream via your lungs - unlike with smoking.) In fact, if there is a reduction in transportation rate through the mucous membranes, you may even exhale some nicotine that you might otherwise have absorbed. You can eventually get your blood-nicotine up by repeated puffing, but it is just too darn slow - slow onset = no rush.

    Liggett (read Big Tobacco) was researching ways to deliver the same nicotine rush while selling cigarettes that could be advertised as having less nicotine. They proposed to treat the tobacco with ammonia (a base or alkaline substance - high pH) in order to facilitate "the transport" and thus provide the same rush with less nicotine. (Of course, with smoking, the absorption was taking place mostly through membranes in the lungs where the relatively small smoke particles could penetrate deeply.)

    The rush is a big part of why I vape, and why I vape such high-nicotine e-juice (65 mg/ml). I know the rush takes 30 seconds instead of 7 seconds (as with smoking), but it's there. I have no desire to reduce it by making my e-juice more acid (lower pH) and thus slowing down how fast it gets into my bloodstream.
     
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  4. zoiDman

    zoiDman My -0^10 = Nothing at All* ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 16, 2010
    So-Cal
    [OFFTOPIC]

    Just a Fun Fact...

    If you have Hard Water Spots or Haze on your Glassware, Citric Acid works Great to remove them. Especially at the Bottom of Glasses where the water can Pool and then Dry in the Dishwasher.

    [/OFFTOPIC]
     
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  5. ChelsB

    ChelsB Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Dec 12, 2016
    California
    I’m so glad you posted that! I constantly struggle with hard water spots and hazy glass!
     
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  6. zoiDman

    zoiDman My -0^10 = Nothing at All* ECF Veteran

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    Apr 16, 2010
    So-Cal
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  7. ChelsB

    ChelsB Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Dec 12, 2016
    California
    Other than cost, is there a difference between the two? They’re both good grade...[​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  8. zoiDman

    zoiDman My -0^10 = Nothing at All* ECF Veteran

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    Apr 16, 2010
    So-Cal
    Dunno?

    I bought a Pound of this stuff at a Health Food Store and the person said that Unless the Label said there was something else in the Bag, that all Citric Acid was the same.

    https://www.amazon.com/Citric-Acid-Resealable-Approved-Organic/dp/B00XI3OLW4/ref=pd_sbs_325_3?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00XI3OLW4&pd_rd_r=97PMQSJ5T2RN3NCR4J8J&pd_rd_w=gzX1I&pd_rd_wg=1MHGj&psc=1&refRID=97PMQSJ5T2RN3NCR4J8J

    But then again, I Don't put Citric Acid in my e-Liquids. Or use it in Foods. So I guess it Doesn't Matter.

    BTW - I didn't pay 7 Bucks for a Pound. It was Much More. But I was there. And It was there. And my Wallet was there. And the Grocery Store didn't have any more Lemi Shine. So I gave it a home.
     
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  9. ChelsB

    ChelsB Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Dec 12, 2016
    California
    I was amazed at the difference in price! Maybe I’ll go for the 2lb bag seeing as it has multiple uses around the house!
     
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  10. zoiDman

    zoiDman My -0^10 = Nothing at All* ECF Veteran

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    Apr 16, 2010
    So-Cal
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  11. ChelsB

    ChelsB Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Dec 12, 2016
    California
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  12. Sugar_and_Spice

    Sugar_and_Spice Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Sep 11, 2010
    between here and there
    Chels,
    I bought the 1st one. Completely dissolves and is very easy to use. Since 1 tsp = almost 5ml the actual mixing was easy. Or you can use 1ml CA(which is 1.2ml) to 1ml pg or dw.


    What I did was added 5ml(measured in a 5ml syringe used with luer stopper on needle end) to 25 ml dw. I wanted a weak mixture to my ejuices since this was the 1st time using it. And I was going to thin the vg with dw anyway.

    Added this to 48ml 100mg nic-vg and proceeded to mix down to 6mg 50/50 ending with 800 ml(little less than 1 litre). I used just a spoon to mix and it was quick.

    Totally smooth, completely dissolves.

    :)
     
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  13. zoiDman

    zoiDman My -0^10 = Nothing at All* ECF Veteran

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    Apr 16, 2010
    So-Cal
    BTW - I think they sell Lemi Sine at Target.

    So if there is a Target near you, you might pick up a Jar of it and see how it works as a Cleaner (NOT as a e-Liquid Additive).

    And if your Spots disappear, then go for the Kilo on Amazon.
     
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  14. Sugar_and_Spice

    Sugar_and_Spice Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Sep 11, 2010
    between here and there
    Also wanted to add that I further reduce when mixing ejuice to 3mg. It is just easier for me to achieve a 50/50 pgvg mix especially when using 100mg all vg.

    My goal in adding the amount of CA I did was to get it as close as I could to my target nic mg content. Hope this helps

    :)
     
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  15. IDJoel

    IDJoel Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 20, 2015
    Boise, ID
    @ChelsB, I buy mine from Bulk Apothecary; 8 pounds at a time for $15.84 + $13.52 shipping (if I am not ordering anything else). It totals $29.36 and works out to $3.67/lb. shipped.

    It is food grade, so you can use it to experiment with DIY, and I use it for cleaning around the house. It is great in the dishwasher, and I run an (empty) white cycle in the washing machine once every two months (or so); but my favorite use is cleaning toilets.

    We have really hard water; and the hard water ring in the toilets are a bear to get rid of. It used to require the use of a pumice stone as bowl cleaners just couldn't get rid of them.

    Now, it is as simple as turning off the water to the toilet, flush the toilet to drain the water, fill a mop bucket with roughly 2 gallons of hot tap water and toss in a scant 1/4 cup of citric acid, pour into the toilet bowl (gently; so as not to start the siphoning), and close the lid. I go about cleaning the rest of the bathroom, and in about 15-20 minutes, I return to the toilet. I turn the water back on, let the tank refill, and give it a flush. Everything below the waterline is crystal clean (Use a bowl cleaner for above the waterline). No scrubbing, no rubbing, and no pumice stones required!:thumbs:

    I will also make a soupy paste of the CA and water, and apply it with an old toothbrush, to all the hard-water buildup that accumulates around all the faucets, and let it soak for about 5 minutes. Then a quick brush with the toothbrush, and a quick wipe with a clean damp sponge, an the faucets are good to go again.

    8 pounds will last me about a year, and I order with my annual PG and VG replenishment (also from BA).:D

    Okay, I'm done being off-topic now (yeah; sure!).:facepalm: :laugh::D:laugh:

    Side note: BA's CA is a bit course for diluting in PG. For my one experiment using it with nic; I put it in a plastic sandwich bag, and crushed it with a rolling pin. The fine powder dissolved much better.
     
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  16. ChelsB

    ChelsB Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Dec 12, 2016
    California
    Excellent info! Thank you kindly good sir
     
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  17. Whiplash

    Whiplash Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 23, 2013
    Idaho
    In 2012 I noticed that Blu's Classic Tobacco by Johnson Creek listed Citric Acid in their ingredients so I tested it with some of my DIY juices. I dissolved 1gram of CA powder in 10ml PG then added 0.1ml (2%) of this solution to 5ml of my favorite juice. I believe it brought clarity to the flavosr and have been including CA in all my DIY since then. I also learned, by accident, that too much CA adds to the TH (but not in a good way).
    8 pounds? that's nearly 40 liters the way I use it.:w00t:
     
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  18. Sugar_and_Spice

    Sugar_and_Spice Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Sep 11, 2010
    between here and there
    What mg of nic do you use?

    :)
     
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  19. Whiplash

    Whiplash Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 23, 2013
    Idaho
    When I first started using CA, 18mg/ml. Now using 8. Not sure if there is any connection; I'm changing too many other things.
     
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  20. Sugar_and_Spice

    Sugar_and_Spice Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Sep 11, 2010
    between here and there
    I have read so many different ways to mix the CA to make the salts, one of which was to match the mg. So when I made mine, I made it .003(% of my 3mg) overall. Yours is using a 10% mix and I have read some use a 20% mix and then my head started to hurt. LOL. I guess it just all depends on what each of us is comfortable with.

    I know what I did not want......not trying to badmouth NR, but when my litre of nic salts was finished and I went to clean out the container, it was so full of salts that I could not believe. So now I am wondering if they are using lots of salts to compensate a level, or just not mixing it to absorb correctly. Either way, if I continue to use nic salts, I will make my own.

    :)
     
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