Where are you getting 10, 15, or higher? Maybe more than "feels non-existent" is just the right amount.
Vapelicious?
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Where are you getting 10, 15, or higher? Maybe more than "feels non-existent" is just the right amount.
It's an educated guess. If Jerry is using approximately 5% (which to you falls under the "feels non-existent") then that most likely approximates Ethan's low or normal. High and Extra High must contain a higher percentage of WTA than 5% so 10%, 15% or higher is a safe assumption. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that if you don't feel anything at 5%, yet another juice makes you feel "whatever you feel" a lot more intensely, it contains a lot more WTA.
cigarettes never made me want to lie down or made me feel high. they just made me feel 'normal'. WTAs are MAOIs. i do not want more than I got in a cigarette, your body will be addicted to them more and need more. i personally feel that messing around with the natural levels like Ethan does is not good. for this reason, I will only use Aroma.
I think you may have missed that part of Mr.Mann's excellent post. Aroma doesn't use 5% of the nic in every strength. If it is 5% at 6mg, it could feel non-existent at 24. I have no idea what amount of wta was in what I had, only that I felt had.
Yup, it sure should. Unless one is "messing around with natural levels." Jerry uses the same amount of WTA in every strength, and it ceases to be the same percentage everywhere but one unknown strength.
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Redrose, I appreciate your explanation about my inquiry although you didn't have to. I'm no one to answer to. I was just curious is all.
I would have to agree with the person who said Jerry does not encourage trash talk about his competitor. There was recently a post in his forum pertaining to that.
I would have to agree with the person who said Jerry does not encourage trash talk about his competitor. There was recently a post in his forum pertaining to that.
Yes, Jerry said the percentage matches the levels. I read it on a thread the other day, but not sure which one now.
I second that, he does not encourage trash talk. However, we are all entitled to our personal opinions- like- i noticed you, red rose, always talk about how you think Ethan's juice is better in this forum. And i'm certainly entitled to my own opinion.
Unfortunately, people will use the same argument for nicotine, and with valid reason. If one does not "feel" the same effect as a cigarette, then who is to say is right? Much as I hate to admit it, the variable level WTA people do have a point. But I think that beyond the first week of using a WTA juice, you should not feel anything "special" from the juice. The idea isn't to get an extra WTA kick from your ejuice.
The perfect solution would be to not feel anything "special" about your WTA juice, yet experience no (or reduced) cigarette cravings.
hahaha! I don't know who here used the word "high?" Actually, nobody did, but that's cool to throw that in there. I am the one who spoke of the bed (and well, so did, oh never mind). I wrote this to clarify, and since one of my posts is important, this one should be too:
Now, you point out that more WTA could be more addictive because of the higher concentration of alkaloids. Sure, probably. Though it didn't happen to me--since our own "story" seems to matter most and what happened or didn't happen to each of us, it didn't happen to me (that is, getting somehow feverishly addicted, or even a little addicted!) After my bottle ran out ot Ethan's WTA, guess what I did? I reused the bottle for some regular nic juice and went on about my life. I don't know about you, but I have vaped both WTAs, high nic, low nic, big batt mod and skinny batts and a myriad of combinations, but my addiction is nothing in comparison to cigarette addiction.
I took a trip recently to Vegas and took NO supplies with me at all. Did I miss them? Sure. Did I break down and run to a gas station? Nope. It would seem that Ethan's WTA did not get me hooked. Now, if you are saying you prefer the same percentage of nicotine and WTA as in cigarettes, are you saying that you want a parallel addiction? Or do the two work the same? I don't think the two work the same nor should be conflated, i.e., "a cigarette never ...". Even if you did want that, a parallel addiction, I think the term is "harm reduction" and there is absolutely no way to say that we, even if talking about a higher concentration of WTA/MAOIs, is anything but harm reduction once we omit combustion of tobacco.
Which nic do you use from Aroma? Is it the 12, 18, 24, or 26 mg? Just curious cause only one of those is not being "messed" with, but I wondered if you had some insight as to which nic percentage was the host?
Lastly, I have one question for anyone that takes issue with "messing around with the natural levels" (don't know which tobacco you are talking about since they all have different "natural" levels of alkaloids), how do you feel about the first person to "mess" around with those levels? Don't worry, it's a trick question.
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I use 12 mg. and I don't have a clue which percentage is the host or even if the percentage changes.
Trick questions are unkind and unhelpful, but I suppose it would be the fault of whoever first intentionally cultivated tobacco, followed closely by the ..... who invented the cigarette. I'm glad you brought that up though, because it's common knowledge that both Dvap and Jerry have gone to great lengths to procure low nitrosamine tobaccos for the WTA extraction process, and have made no secret of doing so. What about Ethan? Has he said one way or the other?
Edit: I don't know if low nitrosamine tobacco would decrease the amount of WTA's that are extractable from the tobacco, or to be perfectly honest, if it would make it a safer product. I do appreciate the fact that our health and safety is important to them.
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I use 12 mg. and I don't have a clue which percentage is the host or even if the percentage changes.
Trick questions are unkind and unhelpful, but I suppose it would be the fault of whoever first intentionally cultivated tobacco, followed closely by the ..... who invented the cigarette. I'm glad you brought that up though, because it's common knowledge that both Dvap and Jerry have gone to great lengths to procure low nitrosamine tobaccos for the WTA extraction process, and have made no secret of doing so. What about Ethan? Has he said one way or the other?
Edit: I don't know if low nitrosamine tobacco would decrease the amount of WTA's that are extractable from the tobacco, or to be perfectly honest, if it would make it a safer product. I do appreciate the fact that our health and safety is important to them.
My point is that Dvap's name can't simultaneously give credence to Aroma and then lurk unmentioned when someone questions things that Ethan does that are on par with, if not exceeded by, things Dvap did. **EDIT**That being said, I would much more be inclined to trust Dvap over any one vendor since he was so open about everything he actually made.
Now, as for the source tobacco? If you are saying that you know that they test "every batch" like has been stated on the sub-forum, or in the very least that they (Aroma) go to "great lengths" to practice safety as much as possible, then cool. That's awesome for the people that buy his juice. I never said either vendor was doing anything inherently harmful or more harmful with their product--actually, that has only been said pertaining to Ethan and not by me.
As far as what Ethan does or doesn't do, I don't claim to know about his source tobacco or his method of extraction. As far as I know, Jerry is the only WTA vendor that lets people into his lab, so that should be able to be seen easier with him. See, that was an unsolicited shout-out for a great practice from an open vendor. Whoa, I am kind.
Lastly, I think some of you may not know how much Jerry and I have spoken (don't be afraid Jerry, I won't tell!
) J/K. I have not, except for a post I deleted regarding one Jerry's less than shinning moments, talked about anything here that I know from the horse's mouth (and don't plan on it.) I am not Jerry bashing, or anything like that; conversely, I am not Ethan cheering, so don't look for me to stand at his gates and defend.If we are merely talking about the experience of both products, which I have had both and like one more than the other, even though this thread is off-topic now, then let's do that. Or, we should play the game of my vendor is cuter than yours<----joke, since neither of them are MY vendor!
Lastly, I hereby must stop using a certain chemist's name, for awhile at least. If I need to refer to him, I will bite my tongue since any one person can search like I do (I seriously have too many of his posts open on my computer and its much more interesting to read than to quote). I do not want to be using him to battle--it's just not cool. The bottom line in all of this is that Aroma is open and taking orders, so if that's the route anyone wants to go, have at it. If anyone wants Vapelicious' juice, be forewarned of all the issues presented in this thread. Whose WTA is better? Maybe the best question is who actually has WTA available.
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I have a question for you Mr Mann and its not a trick one. Do you remember how long from the time you started vaping the extra strong wta to the time you felt the calming affect? Just something to add to my mental database. Was it about the same amount of time it takes to start to feel the nic hit in a regular liquid or was it quicker? I was just now vaping some wta with a portion of snus in and it took about five minutes or so.
Honestly, I don't remember but it wasn't all that immediate (like seconds or anything). Maybe a few minutes? I just know that it hit me when I stood up and walked out of my office, and I only had two puffs and they were my last puffs of the night. My bad if I made it seem like it was sooooo powerful--that really wasn't my intention or the case. It was, IMO, really, really good, though!
Here is a trick question: What the hell is that in your avi? Psych! I finally figured it out yesterday. Is that SRV?
i was not just referring to your statements, mr. mann. i have read others in this forum as well- one guy was even wondering what he should do that his wife passed out from vaping Ethans juice (??)
As far as your 'trick question'- (sheepish much?) that was an initial scientific experimentation by Dvap- it was not a product for sale, but a scientific experiment - something that most chemists do when testing a substance. Aroma keeps their product levels on par with their mgs and does not have extra high wta... and as you have said, they are trustworthy. i dont need more problems, i want to be healthy and stay cig free. their product does this for me, it takes the edge off- nothing more, nothing less. and.. i always get my orders in a week. thats my choice. if others want to order from Ethan, that is their choice. carry on..
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It's been awhile.
I created WTA for one reason: To test a theory.
The theory came about from the observed fact that the cigarette cravings of some folks weren't being helped by nicotine containing e-liquid, even at frighteningly high nicotine concentrations. "Why not?", I asked myself. As you probably know by now, nicotine is the dominant alkaloid contained in tobacco comprising approximately 95% of the tobacco alkaloid spread.
My attention kept being pulled to Sweden and their long-standing fondness for Snus. The percentage of the Swedish population who are smokers is very low; I believe the lowest in Europe. Another, "Why?".
I stuck these facts in my brain and allowed them to ferment awhile. Cigarettes do the trick... Snus does the trick... E-liquid sometimes doesn't do the trick. Then it clicked. Cigarettes and snus both contain the entire tobacco alkaloid spread. E-liquid does not.
The theory was simply that the non-nicotine tobacco alkaloid spread (5% -vs- 95% nicotine) is being disregarded as "miscellaneous other" while, in fact, it contributes in a sometimes significant manner to the whole addiction process (depending, in no small part, on the individual).
But how to test the theory? I put my chemistry background to use and figured I would separate the alkaloids from their tobacco matrix. The chemistry to doing this is very basic, but the execution isn't. It's hard to the point of being a pain in the .... I honestly can't remember the quantity of tobacco I worked with the first time around, but I figured I could get a gram or two of alkaloids from 100 grams of tobacco, and I recovered the alkaloids from tobacco precisely in that range.
For those of you who have never seen the old photos I posted, the alkaloids that I recovered from whole tobacco (whole tobacco alkaloids, as I called them), were an amber to copper colored liquid with a strong odor of nicotine... and in their purified form, quite capable of killing me a good number of times over.
I diluted these alkaloids down to 30 mg with my favorite PG/VG blend, and dripped a fresh atty at 3.7 volts. The first vape was a wonder. The subtle flavor and throat hit were stunning. The vapor was thick and persistent. I vaped for awhile and then noticed that I was feeling very relaxed.
So far, so good. Now, I've got to make more and find some folks to test this stuff at 30 mg. So I made more, a lot more. I recruited my three testers. The whole lot of them were nicotine degenerates. "Professionals", as I called them. Two of the three testers practically offered to have my babies. The third, much more a snus user, wasn't as enthusiastic.
Oven the next while, I offered the WTA to several others such as Hittman, Tropical Bob, and maybe one of two I don't even remember. It was for Tropical Bob that I produced the now mythical 48 mg WTA. This stuff could put a lesser vaper into a coma, not Bob. Still, as I recall, he had to have a "lay down".
Times passed and a lot of discussion and more theorizing occurred. Honestly, I don't know how many of my ideas and how much of my speculation I would still believe today, I change my mind easily and I've not thought much about WTA lately.
More time passed and here we are today.
I created WTA for one reason: To test a theory.
The theory came about from the observed fact that the cigarette cravings of some folks weren't being helped by nicotine containing e-liquid, even at frighteningly high nicotine concentrations. "Why not?", I asked myself. As you probably know by now, nicotine is the dominant alkaloid contained in tobacco comprising approximately 95% of the tobacco alkaloid spread.
My attention kept being pulled to Sweden and their long-standing fondness for Snus. The percentage of the Swedish population who are smokers is very low; I believe the lowest in Europe. Another, "Why?".
I stuck these facts in my brain and allowed them to ferment awhile. Cigarettes do the trick... Snus does the trick... E-liquid sometimes doesn't do the trick. Then it clicked. Cigarettes and snus both contain the entire tobacco alkaloid spread. E-liquid does not.
The theory was simply that the non-nicotine tobacco alkaloid spread (5% -vs- 95% nicotine) is being disregarded as "miscellaneous other" while, in fact, it contributes in a sometimes significant manner to the whole addiction process (depending, in no small part, on the individual).
But how to test the theory? I put my chemistry background to use and figured I would separate the alkaloids from their tobacco matrix. The chemistry to doing this is very basic, but the execution isn't. It's hard to the point of being a pain in the .... I honestly can't remember the quantity of tobacco I worked with the first time around, but I figured I could get a gram or two of alkaloids from 100 grams of tobacco, and I recovered the alkaloids from tobacco precisely in that range.
For those of you who have never seen the old photos I posted, the alkaloids that I recovered from whole tobacco (whole tobacco alkaloids, as I called them), were an amber to copper colored liquid with a strong odor of nicotine... and in their purified form, quite capable of killing me a good number of times over.
I diluted these alkaloids down to 30 mg with my favorite PG/VG blend, and dripped a fresh atty at 3.7 volts. The first vape was a wonder. The subtle flavor and throat hit were stunning. The vapor was thick and persistent. I vaped for awhile and then noticed that I was feeling very relaxed.
So far, so good. Now, I've got to make more and find some folks to test this stuff at 30 mg. So I made more, a lot more. I recruited my three testers. The whole lot of them were nicotine degenerates. "Professionals", as I called them. Two of the three testers practically offered to have my babies. The third, much more a snus user, wasn't as enthusiastic.
Oven the next while, I offered the WTA to several others such as Hittman, Tropical Bob, and maybe one of two I don't even remember. It was for Tropical Bob that I produced the now mythical 48 mg WTA. This stuff could put a lesser vaper into a coma, not Bob. Still, as I recall, he had to have a "lay down".
Times passed and a lot of discussion and more theorizing occurred. Honestly, I don't know how many of my ideas and how much of my speculation I would still believe today, I change my mind easily and I've not thought much about WTA lately.
More time passed and here we are today.
Okay, now I definitely need something with the "calming effect!"
Damn it, just when I said I wasn't going to use the name anymore! haha
Damn it, just when I said I wasn't going to use the name anymore! haha
Yes. Not some new designer drug. Just WTA. And so it is what it is. It saves me money to snuff and snus in that order lightly and periodically order WTA from a reliable vendor. If he were to close shop, no big deal to me. I like having independance in my dependency. No mystery. No unethical business practice. No wonder drug.
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