Vaping and Oral Health

[Caesar77]

Hi mate,
The first study linked is A) out of date - Equipment used is from 2014-2015.

B) shown to be flawed based upon the testing methodology. (intentionally simulating extreme conditions that are outside the scope of "typical" use.)


The second study concludes:


Take care of your teeth, you will miss them when they are gone.

Cheers
I

It should be even worse with nowadays equipment no? Higher power higher temperatures even greater degradation.

The methodology is not perfect but how is he intentionally simulating extreme use of the vaping equipment? The tests range from 2 to 10 sec drags.

In my experience it's worse than eating candy but who knows maybe I just have a bad reaction to PG.

And hopefully I won't be missing my teeth in a very long long time.

Cheers.

 

[Izan]

It should be even worse with nowadays equipment no? Higher power higher temperatures even greater degradation.

The methodology is not perfect but how is he intentionally simulating extreme use of the vaping equipment? The tests range from 2 to 10 sec drags.

In my experience it's worse than eating candy but who knows maybe I just have a bad reaction to PG.

And hopefully I won't be missing my teeth in a very long long time.

Cheers.

The methodology fails on multiple points but just to illuminate one glaring problem;
The volume of sample drawn was 50CCs of air.
The sample intervals used to gather this 50cc? 3, 5 or 10 seconds. (I will ignore the use of 16AWG needles and soft walled silicon tubing to take samples)
What happens when airflow is halved, and then halved again, to a hot coil that depends on airflow to cool it?
Ask any new user what happens when they try to "smoke" a smok like the cigarettes they loved.
IMO, the study above finds the results it seeks. It's not REAL science.


I happy to hear your dental situation has been sorted.

Cheers
I

 

[tj99959]

You don't vape mouthwash, read my post, PG degrades at high temperature.

Key words: HIGH TEMPERATURE

NOBODY vapes at that high a temperature!! You can't!!!! Your mouth would fry if you tried!!!!

 

[Caesar77]

The methodology fails on multiple points but just to illuminate one glaring problem;
The volume of sample drawn was 50CCs of air.
The sample intervals used to gather this 50cc? 3, 5 or 10 seconds. (I will ignore the use of 16AWG needles and soft walled silicon tubing to take samples)
What happens when airflow is halved, and then halved again, to a hot coil that depends on airflow to cool it?
Ask any new user what happens when they try to "smoke" a Smok like the cigarettes they loved.
IMO, the study above finds the results it seeks. It's not REAL science.


I happy to hear your dental situation has been sorted.

Cheers
I

50CC seems about right for old MTL devices. 2.5 and 5 sec also seem about right for a normal drag. 10 sec is way too much yeah. And the needle yeah I get it's pretty dumb and doesn't simulate real vaping, but again even if the methology fails it's not as extreme as other studies. He is not using high power devices so comparing it to trying to mtl with a dtl tank makes no sense. He is not burning coils and frying eliquid, atleast not in the 2.5 and 5 sec drags. Even in the 2.5 drags, wich are reasonable imo, some products of degradation are already present. I don't know what's this obsession with trying to make vaping seem as this inocuous thing, it's pretty safe probably yeah but it can't be perfect no? Hopefully one day we will have someone do a good study on vaping with valid methodology and see what we get out of that.

 

[Izan]

50CC seems about right for old MTL devices. 2.5 and 5 sec also seem about right for a normal drag. 10 sec is way too much yeah. And the needle yeah I get it's pretty dumb and doesn't simulate real vaping, but again even if the methology fails it's not as extreme as other studies. He is not using high power devices so comparing it to trying to mtl with a dtl tank makes no sense. He is not burning coils and frying eliquid, atleast not in the 2.5 and 5 sec drags. Even in the 2.5 drags, wich are reasonable imo, some products of degradation are already present. I don't know what's this obsession with trying to make vaping seem as this inocuous thing, it's pretty safe probably yeah but it can't be perfect no? Hopefully one day we will have someone do a good study on vaping with valid methodology and see what we get out of that.

Cool, cool...
I certainly don't expect vaping to be "innocuous", but personally, I can't use this science.
The study prescribes that:
a 3 second draw would have an average air velocity 16.67ml per second.
a 5 second draw would have an average air velocity of 10ml per second.
a 10 second draw would have an average air velocity of 5ml per second.

I vape and observe others to vape with a pretty consistent draw speed/strength;
if I slowed my draw over 300% from a 3 second draw to a 10 second draw, I would expect the 10 second draw to taste burnt almost immediately.

IMO, the study is not good, 6th grade science fair quality work. (C-)

Cheers
I

 

[dannyboiiii]

I just want to say that i think it has to do with what you are putting in your mouth and body...

it could be the case that people who eat ....ty foods are priming themselves for damage...

much like how if your gut microbiome is in dysbiosis, probiotics will being damaging to you, but in a symbiotic system, they are beneficial...

i toohad lost many teeth, and vaped through having them removed and my mouth healing.

i think this has more to do with diet AND vaping than just vaping alone.
im just not buying all this stuff for real...

im willing to believe that the oral microbiome can be changed with vaping, but im not sure if i agree with the reported assertions just yet.

it could be that vaping makes things worse when you refuse to do the right things by your diet and other lifestyles..

the mouth cleans itself, this may be just another way to facilitate that... so as to say vaping primes the mouth
and if you are contastly throwing animal products and ther things that might cause problems with immune cells, the nitrite cycle and macrophages on your guys, there would be a response on the mouth cavity as well

 

[stols001]

Well that was somewhat complicated. I used to get gum infections after my titanium implants for my dentures and all the "new denture" people assumed it was bone infections and I had several horrendous "Bone infections" with many ABX and unnecessary bone bits of my jaw drilled out.

Then I ran into one of those dentist experts who are just GOOD who was about 95 and he told me I was having gum infections. He looked at my tragic gum and like, was like, "Here is what you do." He gave me a special gum tool and showed me how to shove a wooden toothpick in it and attack my weak and pathetic gum with the toothpick dipped in bleach, and to brush my mouth and implants with straight, concentrated bleach and then use my waterpik to rinse in a water/bleach solution. He was like, "Do not instruct the toothy to uh, do this it will stain their teeth horribly but what do YOU have to lose, exactly?" I was like, "I am pretty sure exactly nothing if you are telling me otherwise you are going to "harvest" gum from areas I don't need it and "move it" to where I do. It sounds to ME as if I am going to do EXACTLY what you say." He patted my thigh, said, "Smart girl" and wandered off. I was like, "When do I come back?" He swiveled, gave me this look and said, "Oh, l know your type, you won't be back if all goes well but see a regular dentist near you and tell them my solution in about 6 months and open your mouth and INSIST that is all you did." Otherwise, you will be calling in 4 weeks saying you need gum harvesting and you won't be happy."

That is exactly how it went down and all my dentists want to know why my gums are so healthy and I have no tartar on my implants."

And I say, "There is very little you cannot fix with very, very cheap 100% BLEACH."

Then, there is a long, long pause. I go through the explanation and they look like I'm insane but every time I go back they say, "Well I guess it is still working."

Anna

 

[Nermal]

And I say, "There is very little you cannot fix with very, very cheap 100% BLEACH."
Anna

Just what kind of bleach are you using. It could be important.

 

[stols001]

Depending on what I get I use CLOROX 100% non scented, non powdered, non splash proof bleach. You find it in the laundry section and really the challenge is finding the one that has NO perfume etc. and splashproofness in it. You just need it to be BLEACH.

When on occasion, I have not been able to get it at Walmart I go to Dollar General and buy some product called "PURE or REAL bleach" I forget what. Again, as long as it is 100% additive free bleach, they seem to function the same.

One time I bought the spash proof by accident and used it exactly for 1/3 of my bleaching needs on ONE occaison, but it TASTES like it might be like poison or something. I saved it to clean my toilet bowl with, because that is immediately where I headed, retching, and so like, it was not a stretch to say, pour some in and leave it a while. Works great for THAT particular function.

I know this sounds weird and all and I guess you can get used to anything but I used to even HATE the smell of bleach but these days I like it a TON I mean, it tastes freaking DELICIOUS.

I don't know if I'd drink it or anything but it's way better than toothpaste not to mention cheaper.; I just pour a capful into.... the cap, dip my toothbrush in it, brush for a while, then dump some of it in the waterpik water and rinse it and it goes back on top. I don't think I swallow much and I have been using it over a year no ill effects.

But seriously I probably would ah, do your research or talk to my elderly dentist who was SO convincing about it I think I purchased my supplies before I even reached home.

It's a... specialized area.

Anna

 

[Nermal]

Thanks for the answer. That sounds kind of scary, but if it works. . . .

 

[dannyboiiii]

worst offtopic pst ive ever read. what the .... are you even talking about

 

[dannyboiiii]

he fact that you are using bleach instead of finding long term lifestyle solutions tells you exactly what you need to know

 

[440BB]

worst offtopic pst ive ever read. what the .... are you even talking about

he fact that you are using bleach instead of finding long term lifestyle solutions tells you exactly what you need to know

Diluted bleach as an oral antiseptic has it's supporters and early studies suggest improved gum health.

https://www.rdhmag.com/career-profe...wing-the-literature-on-diluted-bleach-rinsing

Always something new to learn on ECF!

 

[Javichu]

worst offtopic pst ive ever read. what the .... are you even talking about

he fact that you are using bleach instead of finding long term lifestyle solutions tells you exactly what you need to know

Don29Palms...is that you?

 

[dannyboiiii]

its not new, and nothing to do with the oral microbiome and vaping, just ....ty lifestyle choices.

ive lost seven teeth from smoking, and my mouth is completely better,
and its mainly from diet.
so whats the point of talking about MEDICATING periodontal disease instead of treating it
on a thread about vaped aerosols and the microbiome...

 

[Jebbn]

Don29Palms...is that you?

I gave you a red cross for old times sake.

 

[Javichu]

I gave you a red cross for old times sake.

hahahaha good one,needed a good laugh.

cheers

 

[stols001]

@dannyboiiii the fact that you are neither a doctor, nor dentist, break the "forbidden word filter" every time, and are talking about words you don't know the meaning of tells ME all I need to know.

Don't worry I was new too once and I agree the rules can be hard to find.

There is this interesting phenomenon, however, you may wish to learn about a forum and it Is that OH MY GOSH like, two conversations (unrelated) can be held at once. I can talk about bleach, and you can talk about my AWFULNESS generally especially when it comes to diet. Win.

Also, I didn't lose any teeth from smoking. I took tragically good care of my teeth only I had to take lithium and that can eat your tooth enamel it's a salt. After a while I decided my brain mattered more than my teeth, TO ME. It's clear you feel the exact opposite about your brain and teeth, and I can respect that too.....

I kind of wish I like, uh, had spent less on my teeth I would have told my parents not to spend like, ah, WAY less money on braces as kid for one.

Periodontal disease is a whole different ball game when you have dentures and implants that hook to my dentures. Trust me it has nothing to do with my diet or any other of the really ridiculous functional medicine terms you are throwing around on here.

I'm not arguing with you, I am QUITE sure vaping is much better than smoking for your teeth but kindly leave my diet and oral hygiene out of it, unless you can produce your DDS certificate. Thanks.

Anna

 

[dannyboiiii]

do you eat animal products? and processed foods?

 

[stols001]

No I do not. I am a fruitarian, and will only eat the parts of the plant that do not kill the plant. I also only imbibe the finest spring water bottled in glass. I use castile soap products, which I make myself. My cleansers also include rice vinegar and lemon juice. I have worn a mask for decades, to protect myself from the foul emissions as I like bicycle to work, to save the planet in my own small way.

I have done this for several decades and my body has grown SO adept at processing only the most ORGANIC things of the highest order that I source myself or grow, in my surroundings, I have not pooped in 2 years .

Someone said that was anorexia, but I guess I have shown them, haven't I?

The bleach is the only sort of bad thing in my environment but like otherwise I am pretty sure my biomes are doing just fine. My hair goes down to my ankles (that is henna in it of course, nothing manmade) I can run across the Sahara desert in a single day in the right clothing, as long as my team drops my finest spring water down to me from a helicopter above. My incredible eyesight from my free range carrots (I only eat the root and I have bioengineered carrots that will sprout another root if replanted, hence saving them from death) allow me to catch the bottles in my white netting which I harvested from the finest silkworms and spun into a hairpiece that allows my head to breathe on my run and well I catch them, drink them and keep on going.

That is... MY life.

Do tell me what yours is like it is thrilling to speak with someone who, while not at my level OBVIOUSLY may understand JUST a tiny bit of what I go through for my health, But, it has been a worthwhile journey.


Anna