Vaping for nicotine advantages?

[sofarsogood]

Thank you. I tried to get involved when I first heard of this plan. The problem is I couldn't even get details on who the organizing committee was.



Well, I pretty much am the same, and seldom vape at all when it comes to 'out and about' or doing something not related to teaching. Although, if I'm just relaxing and watching TV I tend not to vape at all. However, since my nicotine intake is goal directed, I vape a lot more on my way to school than on the way home and vape pretty heavily between classes on teaching days. I find my most intensive vaping occurs while I'm needing to concentrate or focus. So, I tend to vape most when I'm writing, putting lectures together, and analyzing data. Just booting up SPSS or Matlab almost guarantees that my office will become a vapor cloud if the door is shut



If you've read my posts about it in this thread, you know that my vaping equipment isn't that sophisticated. Although I do have a few higher capacity batteries, almost all of my batteries are the iJoy variable voltage 650mah that MyFreedomSmokes sell. Now I exclusively use SmokTech Pyrex ARO 2 clearomizers, SmokTech bottom-coil heads and SmokTech 1.8ohm coils. I keep five sets in rotation: one in my pocket, one in my university office, one in each of my two university lab rooms and one in my home office/music studio. I've had good luck with the iJoy batteries, and find that one of the two middle voltage settings usually provides a reliable 3.8V. My juice is now 45mg/ml nicotine in 75/25 PG/VG with a little added menthol crystal. This combination gets me close to what Farsalinos suggested for standard cigarette substitution, and is what I've pretty much used since I've been vaping (started with Kanger EVOD, as was used in the first Farsalinos study). So I'm vaping 45mg/ml at 8W. I replace the coils about once/month and the batteries about once/3 months, and I keep the batteries topped off and never overcharge them. Lately (school is in-session) I vape about 2ml/day (90mg). I plan to stop again for the summer break.

I'm not that concerned about hardware costs since, as you point out, supplies and maintenance are not very expensive. So, I would appreciate you elaborating on what a complete system that includes the DNA200 would include. It's hard for me to tell just looking at the components list in your sig. I would like to generate a more precise data set for my vaping than I currently am. I've refined my cognitive self-evaluation system substantially since I started this experiment, and I would really like to start looking at the nicotine ingestion more quantitatively.

Thanks in advance, Moss

As I mentioned, I don't own a mod with a DNA200 board--yet. That's for reasons related to form factor. Don't need 200 watts and don't want to rely on the batteries it calls for. There may be a DNA75 board coming with the same programing features but able to use 18650's but it may cost about the same as the 200. The mods with that board are pricey, last I checked $150ish. Given your vaping style it might be overkill for you personally but anybody who wants to study their vaping behavior in close detail would be attracted to this device. I want it to have more contol of my vape. Vaping gave me control of smoking. Now I want control of my vaping. It will help if I can see what I'm doing in detail.

Would other's following this thread give me a hand with DNA links for mosspa?

Pbusardo, one of the most celebrated of the Youtube ecig reviewers has a long long pair of videos that exhasutively review every feature of the Escribe PC software that includes the data gathering features.



P.S. The idea of a neuroscience professor who vapes 45mg nic at 8 watts with a big bad DNA200 mod is just a tiny bit funny.

P.P.S There is no complete system with something like a DNA200. You buy a mod with that board then it's your choice of atomizer. Chances are the atomizers you already use might be adaptable. You would be firing in power mode, not temp control but temp control is not so important at 8 watts.

 

[sofarsogood]

Evic VTC mini is what I'm using. It has the puff timer and puff counter.
$35.88 Authentic Joyetech eVic VTC Mini 60W TC VW Variable Wattage APV Box Mod - 1-60W / 200-600'F(100-315'C) / 1*18650 / stainless steel at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping
I'd recommend the silicone sleeve.
$1.40 Protective Silicone Sleeve Case for eVic VTC Mini 60W TC VW Mod - black at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping
Then you will need a battery. As long as you are staying below 50 watts I'd recommend an LG HG2 in the brown wrapper. If there is a reliable vape shop in your area that will only sell you an authentic battery that might be the place to get that.

The above might total less than $50 but all you are getting for data is the puff counter and timer. Spend 3 to 4 times that and you get data in exhausstive detail.

Here is a way to measure daily ml's. Get a 3 ml syringe. Block the bottom hole with a finger and drip your eliquid into the syringe with the drip bottle you normally use up to the 1 ml line. Count the number of drops needed to do that. When you refill an atomizer count the drops and divide by the number required to fill to the 1 ml line in the syringe.

 

[mosspa]

Evic VTC mini is what I'm using. It has the puff timer and puff counter.
$35.88 Authentic Joyetech eVic VTC Mini 60W TC VW Variable Wattage APV Box Mod - 1-60W / 200-600'F(100-315'C) / 1*18650 / stainless steel at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping
I'd recommend the silicone sleeve.
$1.40 Protective Silicone Sleeve Case for eVic VTC Mini 60W TC VW Mod - black at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping
Then you will need a battery. As long as you are staying below 50 watts I'd recommend an LG HG2 in the brown wrapper. If there is a reliable vape shop in your area that will only sell you an authentic battery that might be the place to get that.

The above might total less than $50 but all you are getting for data is the puff counter and timer. Spend 3 to 4 times that and you get data in exhausstive detail.

Thanks. I'll look into it. I wouldn't trust any of my local vape shops further than I could throw them.. I've yet to get any accurate information from any of them. They appear to be operated by idiots. However, this is Southwest Florida

Here is a way to measure daily ml's. Get a 3 ml syringe. Block the bottom hole with a finger and drip your eliquid into the syringe with the drip bottle you normally use up to the 1 ml line. Count the number of drops needed to do that. When you refill an atomizer count the drops and divide by the number required to fill to the 1 ml line in the syringe.

I already fill my chamber from a 3 ml syringe. I have access to a vial capper, so I pull my juice from a sealed medicinal vial through a rubber septum, so I can accurately fill to any gradations on the syringe and then tap out any bubbles. I also have engraved a "fill" line on the pyrex chamber where it shows through the holes. You're right, accurately measuring a day's vape would just be a matter of subtraction. Thanks!

 

[gerrymi]

Psychologist Jennifer Rusted of the University of Sussex in Britain calls the nicotine “the most reliable cognitive enhancer that we currently have.” In addition to improving visual attention and working memory, nicotine has been shown by Rusted to increase prospective memory: the ability to remember and implement a prior intention.

since my nicotine intake is goal directed, I vape a lot more on my way to school than on the way home and vape pretty heavily between classes on teaching days. I find my most intensive vaping occurs while I'm needing to concentrate or focus. So, I tend to vape most when I'm writing, putting lectures together, and analyzing data

Lately (school is in-session) I vape about 2ml/day (90mg). I plan to stop again for the summer break.

Moss...I'm somewhat cornfused...

Nicotine is a "cognitive enhancer" => you find nicotine increases your concentration/focus => you plan to stop nicotine for the summer break...

So...are you saying that you have NO interest in enhancing your cognitive functions when on a school break???

[For me...I find I enjoy nicotine's cognitive enhancement, short term memory improvement, etc. as much (if not more) when I'm on vacation as when I'm not......]

..

 

[mosspa]

Moss...I'm somewhat cornfused...

Nicotine is a "cognitive enhancer" => you find nicotine increases your concentration/focus => you plan to stop nicotine for the summer break...

So...are you saying that you have NO interest in enhancing your cognitive functions when on a school break???

[For me...I find I enjoy nicotine's cognitive enhancement, short term memory improvement, etc. as much (if not more) when I'm on vacation as when I'm not......]

..

While I realize that the effects I've observed may be only placebo effects, I am really trying to test this in some kind of an ABABABAB design. That requires me to not use nicotine for substantial periods and record my missteps as I go. There are serious confounds here, I know, and I'm not intending to publish this. However, I'm assuming that at some point I will be convinced that there either is or isn't a nicotine effect. When I'm not in front of a classroom giving a lecture, I really don't care if it takes me a couple seconds to find the word I want. Anybody I might be conversing with in the event of that occurrence will generally either not notice or make some gesture that I continue (to which I would most likely extend my middle finger). The consequences are not the same when this happens in a classroom. So, to answer your question the best I can. I DO have interest in enhancing my cognitive functions at all times. However, to the extent that one can successfully conduct an experiment on one's self, I need to do the reversals. I gather data in the reversals (i.e., no nicotine) periods but it is no way near as complete as the data I acquire from my lecture periods. The first test will come in the Fall when I won't vape for an entire semester. I need a non-nicotine control. I'm really trying to convince myself that the effect is, indeed, real.

This isn't perfect science, but it is about as perfect as I can make it given the circumstances.

Just so everybody knows. The man pictured in my avatar is B.F. Skinner. When I was an undergraduate biochemistry major intending on becoming a physician, I took a course in the Experimental Analysis of Behavior. My mind cleared. I dropped the medical school idea. I decided to become a scientist. My deep commitment to Skinner's philosophy keeps me sane. One of my main goals in neuroscience is to find out how the laws described by Skinner are manifested in the brain. Skinner's picture appears as my avatar only because the man is really one of my true heroes.

 

[sofarsogood]

While I realize that the effects I've observed may be only placebo effects, I am really trying to test this in some kind of an ABABABAB design. That requires me to not use nicotine for substantial periods and record my missteps as I go. There are serious confounds here, I know, and I'm not intending to publish this. However, I'm assuming that at some point I will be convinced that there either is or isn't a nicotine effect. When I'm not in front of a classroom giving a lecture, I really don't care if it takes me a couple seconds to find the word I want. Anybody I might be conversing with in the event of that occurrence will generally either not notice or make some gesture that I continue (to which I would most likely extend my middle finger). The consequences are not the same when this happens in a classroom. So, to answer your question the best I can. I DO have interest in enhancing my cognitive functions at all times. However, to the extent that one can successfully conduct an experiment on one's self, I need to do the reversals. I gather data in the reversals (i.e., no nicotine) periods but it is no way near as complete as the data I acquire from my lecture periods. The first test will come in the Fall when I won't vape for an entire semester. I need a non-nicotine control. I'm really trying to convince myself that the effect is, indeed, real.

This isn't perfect science, but it is about as perfect as I can make it given the circumstances.

Just so everybody knows. The man pictured in my avatar is B.F. Skinner. When I was an undergraduate biochemistry major intending on becoming a physician, I took a course in the Experimental Analysis of Behavior. My mind cleared. I dropped the medical school idea. I decided to become a scientist. My deep commitment to Skinner's philosophy keeps me sane. One of my main goals in neuroscience is to find out how the laws described by Skinner are manifested in the brain. Skinner's picture appears as my avatar only because the man is really one of my true heroes.

Have there been any studies noting students who smoke and students who don't? Could you go back and add their GPA or similar measure and see if there is any relationship? If there were enough vapers may be they could be compared with non smokers but may be there just aren't enough vapers yet? Or look at three groups, vapers, smokers, and students who do neither. If it turned out that vapers get better grades that would stir thigs up. I love stiring things up.

P.S. There might be a correlation between grades and smokers who switch to vaping.

 

[mosspa]

Have there been any studies noting students who smoke and students who don't? Could you go back and add their GPA or similar measure and see if there is any relationship? If there were enough vapers may be they could be compared with non smokers but may be there just aren't enough vapers yet? Or look at three groups, vapers, smokers, and students who do neither. If it turned out that vapers get better grades that would stir thigs up. I love stiring things up.

P.S. There might be a correlation between grades and smokers who switch to vaping.

There is some data but much of it is confounded with socioeconomic status. That especially applies to older data from the 50s and 60s that appear to show that smokers do more poorly in school. When you control for socioeconomic status that effect goes away, and appear to start to favor smokers. I don't believe anybody has done any studies comparing vapers to non-vapers, and I think that is due to the difficulties in getting the data.

 

[sofarsogood]

There is some data but much of it is confounded with socioeconomic status. That especially applies to older data from the 50s and 60s that appear to show that smokers do more poorly in school. When you control for socioeconomic status that effect goes away, and appear to start to favor smokers. I don't believe anybody has done any studies comparing vapers to non-vapers, and I think that is due to the difficulties in getting the data.

There are some interesting questions that can be asked about vaping and schooling that relate to your personal experiment. So identify the students on campus who vape? They join the study by signing a release that allows using their GPA and financial data anonymously to compare vapers with student smokers, non smokers, etc. as far as grades? Could the economic status of the students be estimated by looking at how they are paying for school? May be the differences are small so a lot of information is needed to compare but if the difference is large enough less detail is needed? I'm not a scientist.

 

[deavidsedice]

I never smoked, never vaped. But for my gf I did the setups, tested the e-cigs and flavours. So i vaped 18-24mg very occasionally (maybe twice per month?) and never felt any addiction.

Now after reading this whole thread (it took days) I'm going to try what mosspa did but in a lower scale. I have a spare kayfun. But i ran out of batteries (i lended them to friends to help them on vaping) so I'm using the mech mod of my gf. I put 36mg base (80%VG) on it and a bit of water. Now I use it for 3-4 puffs at 7am (before leaving home) and 3-4 puffs more at 5pm (after a nap). The device hasn't much power... maybe 8W. Probably I'll recoil it later. Because is my gf's mod I have to leave it at home. So i don't vape outside.

The first day I noticed a lot. My mind was while driving, thinking about all the things to do later. I couldn't stop. Also the journey seemed longer for me.
The second day was less noticeable. But still thinking more than usual while driving.

I believe it's helping me to get things done, but not so sure. I'm looking forward to have one of my batteries back so I can test the vape in the exact moment I need. For example at 11am I'm always feeling sleepy and unproductive, I would like to move the vape from 7am to 11am.

PS: I filled the kayfun at 60% and after 2 days is at 50%. No idea on what amount of nicotine I'm consuming, but i'm sure it's very low even using a 36mg base.

 

[DC2]

I can't even begin to say how much I love this thread.

The things happening here have the potential to change the entire conversation.
--Is nicotine by itself really all that addictive?
--Are there cognitive benefits to using nicotine?

My answer to the above is, and has been for years now...
--Mostly not
--Yes and without question

Caffeine drinkers get free reign to do as the please.
But nicotine users get both the literal and proverbial shaft.

And yet nicotine is quite possibly safer AND better for you.

 

[mosspa]

There are some interesting questions that can be asked about vaping and schooling that relate to your personal experiment. So identify the students on campus who vape? They join the study by signing a release that allows using their GPA and financial data anonymously to compare vapers with student smokers, non smokers, etc. as far as grades? Could the economic status of the students be estimated by looking at how they are paying for school? May be the differences are small so a lot of information is needed to compare but if the difference is large enough less detail is needed? I'm not a scientist.

Scientist or not it is a great idea and could be done relatively easily. However, there is no way I could ever get this kind of thing approved by our Institutional Review Board (IRB), the organization that has to approve ANY research involving human participants conducted here. They are overly political, and make decisions that seem anti-science all the time. While most institutions would view this type of design as being archival in nature, and at most "not at risk" (meaning that the participants would not incur any more risk through participation than they would incur in a normal day of living), here, the anti-nicotine sentiment and political correctness of that organization would never allow it. Even my research project in the chem department looking at the organic components of juice flavorings is going to need approval by the nicotine police board (not its true name), that will have to be set up to allow research exceptions to the anti-smoking ban if it is passed.

 

[sofarsogood]

Scientist or not it is a great idea and could be done relatively easily. However, there is no way I could ever get this kind of thing approved by our Institutional Review Board (IRB), the organization that has to approve ANY research involving human participants conducted here. They are overly political, and make decisions that seem anti-science all the time. While most institutions would view this type of design as being archival in nature, and at most "not at risk" (meaning that the participants would not incur any more risk through participation than they would incur in a normal day of living), here, the anti-nicotine sentiment and political correctness of that organization would never allow it. Even my research project in the chem department looking at the organic components of juice flavorings is going to need approval by the nicotine police board (not its true name), that will have to be set up to allow research exceptions to the anti-smoking ban if it is passed.

(Hmmm, he's interested.) Schools are full of social scientist types and and similar people way more clever about doing what we're talking about than I am. Do you have grad students who could propose this kind of project? If your school won't bite perhaps you have contacts at other schools where the administration is not so scared of their shadow who could get approval? I think there is a huge appetite for good science on vaping because there has been so much bad science. I picture this headline in one of those British tabloids, "New study finds vapers get better grades." That would be a LOT of fun.

 

[sofarsogood]

I never smoked, never vaped. But for my gf I did the setups, tested the e-cigs and flavours. So i vaped 18-24mg very occasionally (maybe twice per month?) and never felt any addiction.

Now after reading this whole thread (it took days) I'm going to try what mosspa did but in a lower scale. I have a spare kayfun. But i ran out of batteries (i lended them to friends to help them on vaping) so I'm using the mech mod of my gf. I put 36mg base (80%VG) on it and a bit of water. Now I use it for 3-4 puffs at 7am (before leaving home) and 3-4 puffs more at 5pm (after a nap). The device hasn't much power... maybe 8W. Probably I'll recoil it later. Because is my gf's mod I have to leave it at home. So i don't vape outside.

The first day I noticed a lot. My mind was while driving, thinking about all the things to do later. I couldn't stop. Also the journey seemed longer for me.
The second day was less noticeable. But still thinking more than usual while driving.

I believe it's helping me to get things done, but not so sure. I'm looking forward to have one of my batteries back so I can test the vape in the exact moment I need. For example at 11am I'm always feeling sleepy and unproductive, I would like to move the vape from 7am to 11am.

PS: I filled the kayfun at 60% and after 2 days is at 50%. No idea on what amount of nicotine I'm consuming, but i'm sure it's very low even using a 36mg base.

Do you like crossword puzzles or some other mind game that's repeatable. If there was such a thing that you enjoyed may be it would provide some precision to your observations?

I did a sort of experiment on myself, mostly by paying attention, as I made the transition from smoker to vaper. My passionate hobby is motorcycle balance practice. What I mean by that is I spend about 40% of my moving time doing various slow balance exercises on the bike. (May be you have seen motor police slow ride competiions.) So I expected my balance to improve at least slightly by quitting smoking and my perception is it did, slightly. Once you are half decent improving balance skill on a bike is a slow process measured in months and years, not days. What I most wanted to find out is what, if any, negative impact nicotine alone might have on my ability to balance the bike. My conclusion is, none at all. Does it improve my balance? I'd have to figure out an experiment to test for that. The human balance system is sensitive to lack of sleep, stress, distraction, you name it. The bike tells me loudly if I haven't been living right. The bike does not seem to care if I vape.

 

[mosspa]

If I were going to attempt something like this in collaboration with some other school, it would probably have to be outside of Florida. I read something in a local newspaper, recently, that suggested that most universities here either already have a tobacco (nicotine) ban or have proposals for implementing one soon.

About balance. That's about the most significant thing I have seen in my decline with ageing (other than the arthritis in my hands). As far as well into my 40s, I could walk for miles on railroad tracks. For the hell of it, a couple years ago I tried walking tracks. I seldom went more than 20 ft before I lost balance. I doubt I could go more than 10 feet now, if that Maybe I can test this again when I stop vaping next month, and then try again when I resume my vaping in my next "B" trial (i.e., with vaping).

 

[mosspa]

For what it's worth. All but one of my best students vape. I think the relationship is more than just coincidental.

If I were going to do a study with some other school, it would probably have to be one outside of Florida. I read in a local newspaper, recently, that most universities here have either already implemented a tobacco (nicotine) ban or have a proposal for one to be implemented soon.

About balance. That's about the most significant thing I have seen in my decline with ageing (other than the arthritis in my hands). As far as well into my 40s, I could walk for miles on railroad tracks. For the hell of it, a couple years ago I tried walking tracks. I seldom went more than 20 ft before I lost balance. I doubt I could go more than 10 feet now, if that Maybe I can test this again when I stop vaping next month, and then try again when I resume my vaping in my next "B" trial (i.e., with vaping).

 

[sofarsogood]

For what it's worth. All but one of my best students vape. I think the relationship is more than just coincidental.

If I were going to do a study with some other school, it would probably have to be one outside of Florida. I read in a local newspaper, recently, that most universities here have either already implemented a tobacco (nicotine) ban or have a proposal for one to be implemented soon.

About balance. That's about the most significant thing I have seen in my decline with ageing (other than the arthritis in my hands). As far as well into my 40s, I could walk for miles on railroad tracks. For the hell of it, a couple years ago I tried walking tracks. I seldom went more than 20 ft before I lost balance. I doubt I could go more than 10 feet now, if that Maybe I can test this again when I stop vaping next month, and then try again when I resume my vaping in my next "B" trial (i.e., with vaping).

Interesting, about your student vapers. A collaboration, or just put the idea out there and see if anybody picks up on it. A university is a pretty ideal place to study how nic might effect cognative functions (did I spell that right).

I didn't say vaping improved my balance. May be but I'm not noticing that. The way you get great balance is endless, ardous training. At first progress seems impossible then you can do something and you forget why you thought it was ever hard. My perception is the balance system is bombarded with more information than it can keep track of so it tries to ignore what it thinks it doesn't need so training it is forcing it to pay attention to stuff it wants to ignore. On the bike I do that by letting it think we're about to fall down (which sometimes we do) and it slowly, grudgingly becomes willing to respond to tiny changes it prefers to ignore. I speak of it as sort of like an semi autonomous navigation system because that's the way it feels. I give it instructions and it carries them out somewhere in my subconcious, fly by wire. It's pre programed to avoid certain risks and sometimes it's wrong and training to to be right takes time. I think balance is burined in the subconscious so the rest of me can watch out for Sabertooth tigers as we're walking down the trail.

 

[deavidsedice]

Do you like crossword puzzles or some other mind game that's repeatable. If there was such a thing that you enjoyed may be it would provide some precision to your observations?

No, sorry. I don't do anything mind-related that is repeatable. But i have a metric for you. I don't have confidence on it, but it's something.

I'm a software developer. (Was my hobby and from the last 14 years also my work). From the last week I was trying to code a new funcionality urgently, but I don't like it, is not my main area (is related to bussiness accounting) and I don't have a idea on how to do it. Procastination was the main problem and I couldn't focus on my task.

Number of lines in programming mean nothing, but maybe gives you an idea.

The last week, i tried to do something on 29th, 30th, 31th of March. (3h, 3h and 2h respectively). I got 138 new lines of code in those 8h of work. (Also, there are deleted lines, User Interface modified and so on, but those are more complicated to put on a metric)

The past two days, i focused more (5th and 6th of April). (3h and 3h) I got 176 new lines of code in those 6h of work.

Last week: 138 lines / 8 h = 17.25 lines per hour
Last two days: 176 lines / 6 h = approx. 29.33 lines per hour (+70%)

That doesn't mean the nicotine improved me a 70% more. It says i was 70% more focused than last week for this task. Why? I believe in some part nic helped. Also, of course, is normal to be more "lost" and "unfocused" until you know the task itself.

Last night I couldn't sleep. Only 3 hours, don't know why. Usually I fall asleep about 11pm and yesterday finally slept at 3am. Maybe I got too much siesta; who knows. But today I know I'm not going to have much work done, even with nic.

 

[mosspa]

I'm a software developer. (Was my hobby and from the last 14 years also my work).
Number of lines in programming mean nothing, but maybe gives you an idea.

For what's it's worth. Matlab coding. essentially amounts to "C" programming, and I find that nicotine definitely improves my productivity in Matlab.

 

[Woofer]

Matlab coding. essentially amounts to "C" programming

Masterful c programing is poetry.

 

[DavidOck]

Masterful c programing is poetry.

As in obfuscated C?

Dabbled a bit years back, but only dabbled. And I'm sure all gone now!