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@vaperXant ...just curious as to how you vape...mouth to lung or direct inhale? Also what is your PG/VG ratio?
Back when we finally got mods to put out some serious vape and I saw these people (not saying you are) putting concert fog machines to shame with huge hits...I wondered how this was going to affect them in the long run. I have tried a high VG juice early on too and it always felt like it was "heavy?" on my lungs.
I have always done MTL and even then it only makes it down until I get the throat hit..and very little vape on the exhale. I have vaped constantly since 2009...and I mean constantly. I can fall asleep on my chair for several hours with my mod in my hand...wake up and hit it and fall back asleep...that's how used to having it in my hand I have gotten. I never buy juice as I make my own..always have...the store bought stuff always had a faint chemical taste to me. I am just finishing off a bottle of 100mg/ml nic I bought in 12/2010 and will be starting on my 2014 supply. I drop it down to 15mg/ml and use Lorann and FlavorArt with a 95/5 PG/VG ratio...my nic is also PG only base. It would be interesting to see why this has suddenly become a problem when some of us have been doing this a long time with no issues.
Anyway...good luck to you
Back when we finally got mods to put out some serious vape and I saw these people (not saying you are) putting concert fog machines to shame with huge hits...I wondered how this was going to affect them in the long run. I have tried a high VG juice early on too and it always felt like it was "heavy?" on my lungs.
I have always done MTL and even then it only makes it down until I get the throat hit..and very little vape on the exhale. I have vaped constantly since 2009...and I mean constantly. I can fall asleep on my chair for several hours with my mod in my hand...wake up and hit it and fall back asleep...that's how used to having it in my hand I have gotten. I never buy juice as I make my own..always have...the store bought stuff always had a faint chemical taste to me. I am just finishing off a bottle of 100mg/ml nic I bought in 12/2010 and will be starting on my 2014 supply. I drop it down to 15mg/ml and use Lorann and FlavorArt with a 95/5 PG/VG ratio...my nic is also PG only base. It would be interesting to see why this has suddenly become a problem when some of us have been doing this a long time with no issues.
Anyway...good luck to you
I never did any hardcore cloud chucking non-sense if that's what you mean, I remember people trying to make 10 coil points with 32 wires wrapped together and hitting it at a solid 200 watts. That wasn't me. For the most part, I vaped heavily in terms of volume because I own a business that allows me to work from home on my computer. So that means pretty much all day I would vape, every few minutes at 60-80W usually with something like the SMOK TV series topper on a DNA200 or SXmini type mod.
I actually really really really enjoyed vaping and it was difficult to stop because I consistently wanted to take that action of making a drag while I was working. (I don't smoke cigs in my house but I did vape in here) It was mostly stress relief I guess, but I did enjoy getting a decent amount of smoke and I was a direct inhale vaper. Even though I wasn't a competitive vaper, 60-80W is an entirely different league than most other vapers and it was, without doubt, a lot of smoke. I do believe that could have had a negative effect.
I posted my full list of ADV juices back 2 or 3 pages, that might help identify what the Pg/VG mixes were but they varied a lot.
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It's good to see you again my friend, though I wish the circumstances that brought you back were happier. I found the thread where Clark posted testing results of his liquids. Perhaps you/someone may find this interesting:
Nicoticket Testing Results
View attachment 842081
Strawnilla has a fair amount of acetoin in particular, as well as diacetyl and pentanedione (only outdone by it's older brother, Frenilla, which was delicious). Still, these levels aren't super high, but I'm just posting this here for transparency.
I find it frustrating, personally, that one would question your motives. You've been very respectful and have not been preaching the harms of vaping but rather just sharing your story in hopes that if somebody else is experiencing the kind of symptoms you've had, they may take caution and consider cessation. I'm all ears myself. Vaping is not harmless and as you suggested, some may be more susceptible to the theoretical harms of vaping than others.
I hope to have clarity one day but as @Rossum points out, there's just so many factors that it'll be a long time before we learn all there is to know - if we ever do. If they push this all underground, we may never manage to learn much more than we know now.
Please make yourself at home and stick around for a while. I'd love to maintain contact and hear how your health is progressing. It's good to have you back bud
ETA: by the way, my name has changed many times through the years but I was probably fairtradesloth back in the Nicoticket days.
Thanks for your support bud, I remember you! I will try to keep active although I will admit it will prob be a challenge for me because I do love vaping lol.
OK..good to know..thx...and no I'm not accusing you of anything..just curious to the other details that weren't mentioned.
Don't worry I didn't think you were, just wanted to answer your questions as best I can. For anyone else, I have thick skin so don't feel you need to prefix your replies lol. The only time I get a bit frustrated is when someone refuses to accept this is happening because I think at this point it should be clear to everyone something is wrong somewhere and it's worth discussing within a community of senior vapers. This is not THC specific, the THC specific cases are abrupt, many times deadly and cause serious lung damage, the nicotine-based cases are nearly all affecting long term vapers with sometimes deadly severe pneumonia. If you review the articles that list what is known from the vaping related injuries, many of them are not teens but long term nicotine vapers.
If you read back in my posts, you will find me attacking those initial "fake" studies the tobacco companies were pushing, YEARS ago, so I have been there, I fought the fight. I was a true believer in vaping and I STILL AM that vaping is a good risk reduction alternative to smoking, but I think we need to find this issue that is causing lung damage or it's going to be severely limited in options soon. I also believe it might be time to consider creating some risk reduction postings that if you're experiencing certain things, you might be suspectable to a rare vaping related injury and should cease vaping, then see a doctor.
I think what we are seeing now is either the long term effects of vaping in specific populations or specific contaminations that are widespread and misunderstood. I should also mention that I have met other people with the same story, and even talked to one in this forum after posting this who wished to remain anonymous.
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I appreciate that...and yes its good to get all the info out there good or bad so we can figure out what's going on. I myself don't blame or label anything or anybody...I just absorb the info I see and make my own conclusion then proceed accordingly.
The kid didn’t lie. He admitted to using THC – his mother is covering up for him….or at least not giving the full truth
@vaperXant – same symptoms does not mean the same case. Anthony Mayo (mother remarried) had Lipoid Pneumonia, not Eosinophilic Pneumonia. Same symptoms, different illness. Not debating your case, but demonstrating that the media, depending the feed (ie: FB post) is not what they may portray to be. Millions of Njoy users are not suffering from bacon grease covered lungs, one Njoy user who also admitted to using “other” products is. What is the probability of little Anthony’s illness?
Agreed there are a lot of different media sources on that specific case and it looks like in some it states THC while others state NJoy. There is a video of him saying he started THC and he also had lipoid so that's a bit different. But in the end 70% of the reported cases are THC related, and they all seem to be pneumonia-related. That leaves 30% to other vaping products like nicotine based products or gear. Many of the THC cases are Lipoid based, while the nicotine are eosinophilic based from what I have seen in the disclosed cases.
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30% vaping something other than the illicit Vit E acetate (it’s important to identify it as such, THC is not the culprit) all getting sick at the same time during the same epidemic as Vit E acetate usage. Does that sound plausible to you? The actual numbers are a bit different but non the less.
How many confirmed cases of Eosinophilic Pneumonia through e-cig usage are there?
Pretty much everything said in this thread is backed up by the latest British Medical Journal study. I think it is just a coincidence these things have come about at the same time. Most 'new' vapors are reaching the 3-4 year mark now.
https://www.bmj.com/content/366/bmj.l5275
This struck me as odd.
"Great concern has been expressed about the presence of the buttery flavor diacetyl in e-liquids..."
I am not aware of diacetyl being in any e-liquids anymore. Did I miss something?
The references to the studies are there, remember this is a review of all relevant peer reviewed studies over a specific time period which would have included the diacetyl issue. However, the diacetyl issue only makes up a very minor aspect of the review (one line actually).
@Vapntime
That's an interesting point about the time spent vaping. I know alot of vapers started vaping 7-9+ years ago, and the overwhelming majority are former smokers. Compromised lung function from smoking, with an increased susceptibility to infections such as pneumonia, is also likely. Age should also play a part in the risk of contracting pneumonia or other lung diseases.
What puzzles me is why would these pneumonia infections (not the mj oil ones) that are being blamed on nicotine e-cigarette aerosol inhalation be present now, in such great numbers, all in the same short time period? And why did they not happen first in nic vapers who had the longest time under their belt with vaping?
Either something in the products make up/the method of usage has changed drastically, or the reports are incorrect. This makes me wonder what is really going on. With the timing of this health crisis, happening at the same time as a separate product (mj oil) causing lipid pneumonia, even though the ingredients in mj oil are (from what I understand) different substances from nicotine e-cigarette liquids, it almost seems deliberate sabotage.
I don't know, it makes my head hurt just thinking about it to tell you the truth. I suppose new atomizers could be made of impure materials also, that's also a possibility. Makes me glad I have old ones
Those are some of the big sticking points for me in why much of the reported (nic based) illnesses just don't make sense to me.
I'm willing to accept that we don't definitively know the long-term effects of vaping on human lungs from studies. Human tests need to be done, and I'm sure they will be now after all of this mess. Until then all we have are personal experiences to rely on. What I've seen, in my own personal experience, is the overwhelmingly positive change in most vapers health. I hope for every vapers sake the long-term effects of vaping prove to be minor or negligible. Only time will tell of course.
I do have a hard time believing that all these (non-mj) cases of possible eosinophilic pneumonia in the news, are being caused by vaporizing an e-liquid that hasn't been tampered with in some way, and that they've all occurred in the same short time. It's too coincidental.
That's an interesting point about the time spent vaping. I know alot of vapers started vaping 7-9+ years ago, and the overwhelming majority are former smokers. Compromised lung function from smoking, with an increased susceptibility to infections such as pneumonia, is also likely. Age should also play a part in the risk of contracting pneumonia or other lung diseases.
What puzzles me is why would these pneumonia infections (not the mj oil ones) that are being blamed on nicotine e-cigarette aerosol inhalation be present now, in such great numbers, all in the same short time period? And why did they not happen first in nic vapers who had the longest time under their belt with vaping?
Either something in the products make up/the method of usage has changed drastically, or the reports are incorrect. This makes me wonder what is really going on. With the timing of this health crisis, happening at the same time as a separate product (mj oil) causing lipid pneumonia, even though the ingredients in mj oil are (from what I understand) different substances from nicotine e-cigarette liquids, it almost seems deliberate sabotage.
I don't know, it makes my head hurt just thinking about it to tell you the truth. I suppose new atomizers could be made of impure materials also, that's also a possibility. Makes me glad I have old ones
Those are some of the big sticking points for me in why much of the reported (nic based) illnesses just don't make sense to me.
I'm willing to accept that we don't definitively know the long-term effects of vaping on human lungs from studies. Human tests need to be done, and I'm sure they will be now after all of this mess. Until then all we have are personal experiences to rely on. What I've seen, in my own personal experience, is the overwhelmingly positive change in most vapers health. I hope for every vapers sake the long-term effects of vaping prove to be minor or negligible. Only time will tell of course.
I do have a hard time believing that all these (non-mj) cases of possible eosinophilic pneumonia in the news, are being caused by vaporizing an e-liquid that hasn't been tampered with in some way, and that they've all occurred in the same short time. It's too coincidental.
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@Blitzdonlife I didn't start the thread it was vaperX. This is obviously separate to the thc issue. The reports whether thc or not are only being reported from now due to the thc issue. This has likely been going on for a longer time re nicotine vaping but it wasn't linked at the time to vaping.
This is all I can add regarding your post, its from the review:
'Given the survey data showing increased symptoms of respiratory disease and the many lines of human, animal, and in vitro experimental evidence that e-cigarette aerosol can negatively affect multiple aspects of lung cellular and organ physiology and immune function, e-cigarettes will likely prove to have at least some pulmonary toxicity with chronic and possibly even short term use. Several important principles will determine how lung disease manifests and how severely: as with smokers, vapers are likely to have variable susceptibility to lung injury, influenced by many interacting genetic and environmental factors; certain variations of e-cigarette technology (atomizer construction, coil power, nicotine exposure, and flavorants) will prove more harmful than others; dual use with combustible cigarettes, the dominant adult use pattern, may potentiate toxicity; a critical factor will be the extent to which vaping alters the susceptibility to and trajectory of bacterial and viral lung infections; and the continued rapid technological evolution of these devices may mitigate or potentiate particular toxicities'.
This is all I can add regarding your post, its from the review:
'Given the survey data showing increased symptoms of respiratory disease and the many lines of human, animal, and in vitro experimental evidence that e-cigarette aerosol can negatively affect multiple aspects of lung cellular and organ physiology and immune function, e-cigarettes will likely prove to have at least some pulmonary toxicity with chronic and possibly even short term use. Several important principles will determine how lung disease manifests and how severely: as with smokers, vapers are likely to have variable susceptibility to lung injury, influenced by many interacting genetic and environmental factors; certain variations of e-cigarette technology (atomizer construction, coil power, nicotine exposure, and flavorants) will prove more harmful than others; dual use with combustible cigarettes, the dominant adult use pattern, may potentiate toxicity; a critical factor will be the extent to which vaping alters the susceptibility to and trajectory of bacterial and viral lung infections; and the continued rapid technological evolution of these devices may mitigate or potentiate particular toxicities'.
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There is no need to inhale in the first place to get nicotine, as a cigar-like puff will provide much of the nicotine through absorption in the mucous membranes. Exhaling through the nose can amplify the effect.
My point for the OP as well as any vaper concerned about lung issues is to convert to puffing from inhaling. It will take some practice and if necessary an increase in nic level to get the same result, but it removes lung concerns from the equation. The same hand to mouth, the same process, just not inhaling.
My point for the OP as well as any vaper concerned about lung issues is to convert to puffing from inhaling. It will take some practice and if necessary an increase in nic level to get the same result, but it removes lung concerns from the equation. The same hand to mouth, the same process, just not inhaling.
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