Vaping Hypocricy?

[gingersnaps]

As smokers, we watched for years as our rights were eroded to zero. We watched as studies on the dangers of second hand smoke were manipulated and our right to smoke outside in public was eliminated. We watched as our right to smoke in our own home and car was eliminated. We figured if we just nodded our heads and went along with it, the ANTZ would eventually be satisfied and leave us alone. Well, we know how well that's worked out.

After us they will be going hard after the fatties and caffeine addicts and who knows who else that they want to control for the sake of the children or some person whom its of no concern to. Seriously if my kid gets fat its my fault not McDonalds or 7-11 for selling big gulps. I coulda bough the brat a chicken sandwich or got an apple juice from the gas station. Or just learned to cook. What's gonna stop me from buying and consuming 2 or 3 #1s off the menu and still ordering an extra drink?

Oh and the whole walks like a duck thing. What looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck but isn't a duck? An electronic (robot) duck that won't bite you.

 

[e32lover]

A little off topic, but my take on it is this:

Would you rather "smoke" something that might kill you, or something that is guaranteed to kill you?

 

[toddrhodes]

Ginger, in the case of NYC they are already trying that in terms of limiting what size drink someone is allowed to purchase. It was shot down but it's only a matter of time before that comes back up in Bloomberg's tenure. I'll make the same apology here as I did via PM, despite the knowledge this will probably set someone off, but I don't think I understood the point of this post yesterday. I do now, thanks to reading more of it and understanding what ya'll are getting at. I see now that I was wrong and shouldn't have posted what I did. The fact is we're all on the same side here. I know someone in our city's public health department so I am going to reach out to her to see what, if anything, I can do to get out in front of this in my hometown, rather than waiting until some politician has already made up my own mind for me. Hopefully something positive comes out of that.

 

[p.opus]

I'll make the same apology here as I did via PM, despite the knowledge this will probably set someone off, but I don't think I understood the point of this post yesterday. I do now, thanks to reading more of it and understanding what ya'll are getting at. I see now that I was wrong and shouldn't have posted what I did. The fact is we're all on the same side here.

I don't see any need to apologize. I think we're all adults here. I may not agree with everything you say, but I will defend your right to have and voice your opinion with my life.

I will always speak out against people who use irrational and alarmist arguments not based on scientific fact to try and limit my freedom to enjoy life as I see fit.

I am 100% for independent, peer-reviewed studies regarding e-cig use. I am also 100% for having quality controls in regards to the ingredients used in pre-mixed e-juice. I also believes that e-cigs should not be sold to minors, but that is the extend of it.

What I am completely against is apples to oranges comparisons of e-cigs to smoking tobacco simply because the delivery method of the devices appears similar.

Look at these instructions:
- Inhale deeply into back of throat or puff in short breaths
- As you inhale or puff through the mouthpiece, nicotine turns into a vapor and is absorbed into your mouth and throat
- Use longer and more often at first to help control cigarette cravings.

Sounds like the instructions for a typical e-cig...Right??!! This should be banned anywhere that smoking is banned Right??!! This could be a gateway to youth smoking Right??!!

Wrong... These are the instructions for the Prescription Nicotrol Nicotine inhaler.

Does the NYC Department of Health or Chicago Department of Health or any other government entity consider this as part of their "ban"?

Prescription NICOTROL® Inhaler (nicotine inhalation system) | Safety Info

Looking at the nicotrol inhaler and an e-cig is a much more apples to apples comparison but no one is considering to ban this product in public places. On the contrary, I am encouraged to use this product ANYWHERE as long as I keep it out of the reach of children.

If you are looking for hypocrisy, this is where you find it....

 

[toddrhodes]

p.opus, I wholeheartedly agree with you. The reason I offered an apology to the board and to the poster I attacked is twofold: I don't want to make enemies on this board. I don't have to be everyone's friend, but I am on the same side as everyone in this thread and secondly, I see now how I didn't understand what was being said last night.

Your post, and the observations within expose the larger fight we are up against - Big Pharma and Big Tobacco. In a conversation with a business owner on my wife's and my recent vacation, people depending on the industry also recognize that we have a big fight in front of us. Both Big P/T will be lobbying hard to gain the 2B industry we have created. At that point, it does go beyond simple courtesy. It is, as you described, hypocrisy for our government and the institutions we depend on to protect our health to work against us and, in effect, push us back to smoking if we defy their "alternatives."

Here's a thought I've had and maybe it's stupid, but let's say I still want nicotine and I still want to vape. What would stop me from buying 0 nic juice and putting a patch on my arm? I don't want to support BP in any shape or form but suppose we are forced into that decision? Can the government and BP/BT actually outlaw flavored juice with no nicotine? I should hope they cannot but I fear they might find some way to do it.

In any event, the situation I am dealing with has produced one positive side effect - I need to get involved. I am fortunate enough to live in an unregulated area (for now) and I can be proactive. I've reached out to my friend and she already responded with some ideas on what I can do and who I can contact. Evidently the people I will be put in touch with are not very friendly but I'll deal with that. My friend's husband is a smoker and she knows I and several of our friends vape (and yes, I have had an impact on their decision to vape) and would like something, *anything* at this point to try and get her husband to quit. Through these forums I have learned that brute force is not the way to go, but her husband is most definitely someone who will see the benefits eventually. I am hoping to get an audience with someone in power who can give me guidance on what I can do to make my city understand what we are trying to do. Here's hoping, and having signed multiple petitions, joining CASAA, and railing against detractors through social media, I hope I am prepared to take the fight as far as they will let me locally.

Todd

 

[iBigChill]

My fear is the more the general public sees vaping in non-smoking areas, the more they are going to become reserved about it. There may not be many rules now, but they can definitely be on the way. My two cents is vape on, vape proud, but keep it on the DL a little when in restaurants and bars. I love it, I take liberties with vaping that I never would dare do with smoking.

 

[Myrany]

p.opus, I wholeheartedly agree with you. The reason I offered an apology to the board and to the poster I attacked is twofold: I don't want to make enemies on this board. I don't have to be everyone's friend, but I am on the same side as everyone in this thread and secondly, I see now how I didn't understand what was being said last night.

Your post, and the observations within expose the larger fight we are up against - Big Pharma and Big Tobacco. In a conversation with a business owner on my wife's and my recent vacation, people depending on the industry also recognize that we have a big fight in front of us. Both Big P/T will be lobbying hard to gain the 2B industry we have created. At that point, it does go beyond simple courtesy. It is, as you described, hypocrisy for our government and the institutions we depend on to protect our health to work against us and, in effect, push us back to smoking if we defy their "alternatives."

Here's a thought I've had and maybe it's stupid, but let's say I still want nicotine and I still want to vape. What would stop me from buying 0 nic juice and putting a patch on my arm? I don't want to support BP in any shape or form but suppose we are forced into that decision? Can the government and BP/BT actually outlaw flavored juice with no nicotine? I should hope they cannot but I fear they might find some way to do it.

In any event, the situation I am dealing with has produced one positive side effect - I need to get involved. I am fortunate enough to live in an unregulated area (for now) and I can be proactive. I've reached out to my friend and she already responded with some ideas on what I can do and who I can contact. Evidently the people I will be put in touch with are not very friendly but I'll deal with that. My friend's husband is a smoker and she knows I and several of our friends vape (and yes, I have had an impact on their decision to vape) and would like something, *anything* at this point to try and get her husband to quit. Through these forums I have learned that brute force is not the way to go, but her husband is most definitely someone who will see the benefits eventually. I am hoping to get an audience with someone in power who can give me guidance on what I can do to make my city understand what we are trying to do. Here's hoping, and having signed multiple petitions, joining CASAA, and railing against detractors through social media, I hope I am prepared to take the fight as far as they will let me locally.

Todd

THey might be able to outlaw premade zero nic juice but getting the materials to DIY your own 0 nic juice cannot be shut down.
PG and VG have way too many uses outside of vaping for them to get controlled and the flavorings are food flavorings that chefs use.

 

[MrStik]

I beg to differ... I have seen it, although it was a public school bus. they'd spray their self then make a blow torch on the bus... I nearly had my .... set on fire all while choking on half a can of axe. These were the same people who would smoke on the bus, too.

Anyway, If I weren't a vaper I'd rather breathe in second hand vape than second hand smoke. Plus the smells would be awesome!

Anyone who wears Axe annoys the crap out of me. But it is their right. I am not arguing vaper's rights or anything. I just think the argument that cologne/perfume is allowed so should vaping is laughable. And I am sure a lof of people who make that argument wear some sort of cologne, perfume, deodorant, etc.

 

[toddrhodes]

THey might be able to outlaw premade zero nic juice but getting the materials to DIY your own 0 nic juice cannot be shut down.
PG and VG have way too many uses outside of vaping for them to get controlled and the flavorings are food flavorings that chefs use.

Thanks Myranny. Sounds just like cotton balls and kanthal wire (used in furnace repair, apparently?). It's why I'm building an arsenal of RBA's and will keep a few mech mods around that I don't "need."

 

[p.opus]

Anyone who wears Axe annoys the crap out of me. But it is their right. I am not arguing vaper's rights or anything. I just think the argument that cologne/perfume is allowed so should vaping is laughable. And I am sure a lof of people who make that argument wear some sort of cologne, perfume, deodorant, etc.

Please tell me how the argument on perfume/vaping is laughable?

Is it because you think that the use of perfume is socially acceptable while vaping is not? If that's the case then you need to fight for the right of vaping to be equally as socially acceptable as drinking coffee, wearing perfume, or whatever else we do that brings us pleasure.

If it doesn't HURT anyone, it should not be considered illicit.

Would you consider it acceptable, for me to randomly walk up to someone in a restaurant and tell them they should not eat meat in front of me because I am a vegetarian? How about me walking up to a drinker and stating that alcohol use bothers me so they should quit drinking?

Of course not, you would tell me to mind my own @$@$#@# business. Yet somehow we feel that we need to hide in the shadows and quietly vape because we are not entitled to the same rights as the meat eater or wine drinker.

As ex-cigarette smokers we have been beaten into submission by the ANTZ. Pipe and Cigar smokers don't even get the same level of distain and disgust as the cigarette smoker. We have quit that offensive habit for a habit that does not produce any unhealthy by products and told that we can't partake in it because it resembles something else. This is ludicrous. What's even worse, we are told to use an NRT treatment which is practically identical to what we are using now....And that's ok.

I'm sorry, but I won't stand for it.

 

[Myrany]

Thanks Myranny. Sounds just like cotton balls and kanthal wire (used in furnace repair, apparently?). It's why I'm building an arsenal of RBA's and will keep a few mech mods around that I don't "need."

Yep that is where I am at with my 2 REOs, 3 other mechs and a stack of RBAs and RBDs. I have been making my own juice since my second month of vaping and have dropped my nic level to 0-1 mg at this point. I first heard about all this a week after I started vaping. I have been in vapocalypse preparation mode since.

ALso for vapocalypse proofing yourself, google puck mod. There is a fairly concise set of instructions out there on how to build one.

 

[Myrany]

Please tell me how the argument on perfume/vaping is laughable?

Is it because you think that the use of perfume is socially acceptable while vaping is not? If that's the case then you need to fight for the right of vaping to be equally as socially acceptable as drinking coffee, wearing perfume, or whatever else we do that brings us pleasure.

If it doesn't HURT anyone, it should not be considered illicit.

Would you consider it acceptable, for me to randomly walk up to someone in a restaurant and tell them they should not eat meat in front of me because I am a vegetarian? How about me walking up to a drinker and stating that alcohol use bothers me so they should quit drinking?

Of course not, you would tell me to mind my own @$@$#@# business. Yet somehow we feel that we need to hide in the shadows and quietly vape because we are not entitled to the same rights as the meat eater or wine drinker.

As ex-cigarette smokers we have been beaten into submission by the ANTZ. Pipe and Cigar smokers don't even get the same level of distain and disgust as the cigarette smoker. We have quit that offensive habit for a habit that does not produce any unhealthy by products and told that we can't partake in it because it resembles something else. This is ludicrous. What's even worse, we are told to use an NRT treatment which is practically identical to what we are using now....And that's ok.

I'm sorry, but I won't stand for it.

Although I do agree with this I also believe we should use common sense and courtesy when vaping in public. I for example will not blow vapor in someones face. I choose not to vape in front of children. When in a group of people I do ask if it bothers them and abide by what they say (usually fixed by moving a few paces away). I do not vape in others people's houses without asking. That sort of thing. I consider it common courtesy much along the lines of saying please and thank you.

 

[p.opus]

Although I do agree with this I also believe we should use common sense and courtesy when vaping in public. I for example will not blow vapor in someones face. I choose not to vape in front of children. When in a group of people I do ask if it bothers them and abide by what they say (usually fixed by moving a few paces away). I do not vape in others people's houses without asking. That sort of thing. I consider it common courtesy much along the lines of saying please and thank you.

I agree with you 100%. I am not saying that vapers should walk up to people and blow vaper in their face while flipping them the bird. Please don't misconstrue me. I am all for asking permission and if someone asks what it is, you explain it to them. That is common courtesy, as you say.

I also don't go for MAX VAPOR PRODUCTION when I'm in public. I choose not to be a HUMAN FOG MACHINE in public. I can hold a toke in to limit how much vapor I actually exhale.

But, having said that, If I am in a Resturaunt, and I use my PV with a cup of coffee afterwards, and you happen to notice a whiff of vape or that I put something in my mouth and inhaled from it from half way across the room, and you pitch a fit... I'll respectfully remind you that I am not smoking and ask you to mind your own business.

 

[suspectK]

Who is the government?

It is us. Not the elected, but the whole of the people.

While agree with you, that is not how the government sees it.. Being told not to ask people who someone voted for, while growing up, keyed me in at a young age how elections work as well.

That will be my last political comment for the day.

 

[EddardinWinter]

While agree with you, that is not how the government sees it.. Being told not to ask people who someone voted for, while growing up, keyed me in at a young age how elections work as well.

That will be my last political comment for the day.

Did you see my comment as a political one?

 

[suspectK]

Did you see my comment as a political one?

No, that was the second political comment/reply I've had today..

 

[EddardinWinter]

No, that was the second political comment/reply I've had today..

Fair enough. I was asking legitimately. I have entered a political discussion rehabilitation 12-step program, so I just wanted to know if I needed to call my sponsor....

 

[p.opus]

Fair enough. I was asking legitimately. I have entered a political discussion rehabilitation 12-step program, so I just wanted to know if I needed to call my sponsor....

Sorry dude....I think you need to pick up a white chip....

 

[suspectK]

Well, keep coming back! cucumber-pickle, misery refund...and so forth

 

[wv2win]

Although I do agree with this I also believe we should use common sense and courtesy when vaping in public. I for example will not blow vapor in someones face. I choose not to vape in front of children. When in a group of people I do ask if it bothers them and abide by what they say (usually fixed by moving a few paces away). I do not vape in others people's houses without asking. That sort of thing. I consider it common courtesy much along the lines of saying please and thank you.

This is the position that many of us advocate. Unfortunately there are those on this forum who believe that vaping and smoking are the same, equally dangerous and it appears no level of logic or studies supporting our position will be accepted. I was told in other thread on this topic that we should act like smokers and wait 30 years and then maybe vapers will be able to vape beyond smoking sections.