She blamed it on the apartments being "smoke-free" and said it wasn't allowed. :/ but hey, what she doesn't know won't hurt.
That's good, vaping happens to be 100% smoke-free.
Vaping in Public
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That's good, vaping happens to be 100% smoke-free.
OK is a red state, next door to me, they seem to have a big problem with vaping.
Over here in AR, also a red state......no problems at all.
Iowa has no problems with vaping (one of Reagan's weakest states in 1980 and 1984, Bush lost it in '88, Clinton won it twice, and Obama won it twice. ) Democrats have won 6 of the last 7 presidential races in Iowa.
So----Trying to make it into a partisan issue doesn't work because it doesn't follow.
It seems like it comes down to states, since there are no federal laws about vaping, etc.
VA is a red state that voted for Obama twice and has two Democrats for US Senators, and a Democrat Governor. Doesn't sound red to me...but what do I know, I have just lived here forty-plus years.
But you are right, it is not D/R issue. Vaping has plenty of opponents on both sides of the aisle.
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Ya know, if we could convince both sides that it is a political issue and that the other side is against it...
Are those who who impose no smoking areas "respectable and considerate" toward vapers and smokers? And if no, why should we treat them better than they treat us?
It is a political issue, it just doesn't fit the traditional (bogus) left-right spectrum. Robert Heinlein said it very well back about 50 years ago:
As far as vaping in the office, I'm in a cubicle so I stealth vape as to not draw attention but several people have asked me about it and a few coworkers have started vaping after talking to me about it. My boss doesn't have a problem with it, I guess he figures it's better than me going outside every couple of hours to smoke. I don't do it in restaurants, it's a losing battle. But I do it in non smoking bars as long as it's ok with the bouncer or bartender.
OK is a red state, next door to me, they seem to have a big problem with vaping.
Over here in AR, also a red state......no problems at all.
Iowa has no problems with vaping (one of Reagan's weakest states in 1980 and 1984, Bush lost it in '88, Clinton won it twice, and Obama won it twice. ) Democrats have won 6 of the last 7 presidential races in Iowa.
So----Trying to make it into a partisan issue doesn't work because it doesn't follow.
It seems like it comes down to states, since there are no federal laws about vaping, etc.
Red state/Blue state is a non-issue and not relevant. From a political affiliation standpoint, only one type of politician has aggressively initiated comments and/or action to have vaping banned or severely restricted at the federal level. The moderate to right side politicians have stayed out of the issue. You can pretend that is not a fact but it does not change the reality.
On a personal level: I like to vape where smokers smoke. I know I could probably get away with vaping in most public places but I see it as a personal moral and ethical decision. I choose to restrict my vaping locations to respect people who do not with to inhale my vapor. 1. They are terrified of the clouds usually because of ignorance on the subject 2. They are the people whom will complain and create stricter vaping laws in the future. There are few restriction of the subject as of yet and I feel it is important to restrict ourselves to prevent future restricions by law and policies.
An eye for an eye? Someone is doing something you don't like and that's why you have the right to do it to them?
That's why the society we live in has become such an unfriendly place.
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So if we ban and severely self-restrict our harmless vaping, then we will be left alone. If only that was true, which, unfortunately, it is totally false.
It would be wise to do some research on the history of vaping and the attempts to ban it. It has NOTHING to do with people vaping openly but respectfully. In 2009, before you could find one vaper every 500 square miles and hardly no one vaping in public, the federal government tried to ban vaping nationwide and confiscated thousands of dollars of both suppliers and consumers vaping shipments. Do you "think" that was due to vapers going around blowing vapor in people's faces??
Severe restrictions and bans have NOTHING to do with anyone vaping openly but respectfully or even disrespectfully. Do some research, please.
I think you missed his main point. Restricting people's harmless activities simply because a few people "may" be slightly irritated by the activity flies in the face of fairness, equality and having a government that stays out of people's everyday lives except for instances where an activity is significantly detrimental to others ability to live their lives. If one is for restrictions on activities that simply irritate a small group of people, then they need to champion restrictions on all similar activities that are selectively irritating such as using perfume that is distasteful.
Yeah, but the presentation as such is one of the tools being used against us, and might I be so bold as to say even to 'flip' vapers towards their point of view...
I agree with this in general. The chief enemies in the US Senate of our right to vape are Lautenberg, Schumer, and Waxman. All three happen to be Democrats. That is true. There is nothing wrong with stating that, WV. Some vaping Democrats will be angered and want to argue with you over it. I think you have seen this.
Additionally, if you think the Republican Party will save our rights as vapers, you are pinning your hopes on a bad bet. They won't. In my opinion, they don't care. I believe they will sell you and me and every other vaper out in a second if they think it will help them win votes, pass legislation, do a favor for a campaign donor, etc.
The way I see it, arguing the politics of R/D will only divide us. I don't see a path to a 'win' for vapers from either party. Every time I have made the mistake of mentioning either political party, the whole discussion drops down to people arguing over Obamacare, Tax policy, Tea Party, etc.
If as a group we make it politically unpalatable to oppose vaping rights, then the parties will do what is politically expedient. They won't want to take on the issue.
EDIT: Changed "and" in the second to last sentence to "then"
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Indeed, society has always been a hostile environment. History shows us that there will always be a battle somewhere over something, big or small. If anyone actually believes that a peaceful world is possible must be blinded by flowers and fairy tales because as long as people have the ability to think there will be confliction.
It's not an "eye for an eye" kind of thing... Simply put we shouldn't go around banning every little thing that bothers someone in public. When you leave your house you should understand that you are at the mercy of the open world. I vape when I want (fairly courteous about it though because I'm a nice guy), play my music in my car with 150db bass (turning it down when around houses and such), openly carry my sidearm (just about everywhere, no one has any business telling me otherwise), and cursing if I feel like it (of course, toning down around little kids and such). If anyone has a problem with what I do.. I could care less.
On a side note, it is a great conversation piece to have open carry, my PV, and subwoofer system while talking to a LEO... I've had many great conversations that way.
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First, I don't look for the Republican party to save us. The fact of the matter is, they are not trying to get rid of us, either, as some other politicians are trying to do. I am not affiliated with either party. If both parties and individual politicians would do what was morally right, they would just leave us alone and let us live our lives. A basic principle for the foundation of our country.
I want to be clear: I am not trumpeting either party.
I find it intellectually dishonest that some on ECF try to separate support for a political philosophy of big government regulation of every aspect of our lives and the issue of vaping. There will always be a need for "reasoned" oversight and regulation of human activity that can cause harm: traffic laws, reasonable building codes, etc. But blindly giving the "keys to the kingdom" to nanny-state, big government politicians and then pretending there are no negative consequences to supporting them is a big part of the problem in the country overall and is a salient fact in relation to vaping.
Vaping should not be a political issue. But politicians of a particular persuasion have made it one, unfortunately. To attempt to defend against them and protect our ability to vape, we need to recognize who they are.
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An interesting point. Society places tremendous pressure on individuals to conform. For some people, conformance is easy, and they go right along with the rules. For others, it is chafing and inspires rebellion.
I agree with your premise for the most part. If you wish to carry your sidearm, do you believe that the owner of a property has a right to not permit it on his premises? I think you do.
I know that I do, and I support this personal property right of ownership as a gun owner who has purchased guns for all four of my sons. I believe vaping should be the same, and activity that each property owner has the right to decide whether or not they permit it. If a restaurant wishes to be a vape-free zone, then I can choose to not eat there, or leave my PV idle while I eat. If they wish to permit it, what business is it of any local, state, or federal government?
I will always oppose laws banning vaping, since I view the protection of individual property rights to be a paramount concern in a free society.
You got it right, I do believe that a property owner has the right to ban whatever he/she pleases from their property. I also appose laws banning vaping because it should be up to the property owner, not the government.
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WV, I was not trying to tell you what to do. If I came across that way, then I am sorry. I suppose my second paragraph implied you are an R, and I did not mean to do that.
The rest was simply my thoughts and observations. I agree with what you are saying, all I am saying is when we step into "Democrats do XXXX" territory it has been my experience that people who have been conditioned to support their parties drop all other issues and attack the post (and the poster). So I feel that it is hard to broach the subject in a way that doesn't derail any sort of coalition of vapers. I bet as a group vapers are about equally composed of Democrats and Republicans. So noting that Democrats are more hostile to vaping will infuriate a segment of the vaping population. That is all I am saying. I am not telling you not to do it (and I know you well enough to know it wouldn't do any good).
Is it fair that our population consists of many people that believe either of the political parties are the only thing that will save their way of life? Hell No!
I can't fix that. I am not good enough or strong enough. I wish I could.
I am just trying to conserve my energy by not fighting that fight. If I can help the tiny issue of vaping in between being a father and taking care of my customers and making sure my department remains profitable, i will be happy.
I guess I am sure lucky that my employer doesn't mind me vaping at my desk all day. The people here say they don't mind the (slight) smell that vapor produces. I am sure they would rather smell the vapor than smell me wreaking of cig smoke. They all are encouraging
I don't think I would have been able to quit the cigs so easily if I wasn't allowed to chain vape at my desk all day.
I don't think I would have been able to quit the cigs so easily if I wasn't allowed to chain vape at my desk all day.
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