Then we should feel great 8 or 9 hours later in the morning instead of horribly lethargic and achy.....particularly after vaping for an enire year, right?!
Vaping makes me tired?
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Sorry to bump an old thread but has any progress been made in figuring out the cause of this fatigue? I am on about week 3 of vaping and now I notice not only am I tired all the time but after taking a couple hits from my 510 that a few seconds later a wave extra sleepiness hits my head. The mixtures I am using have more VG than PG so I am not sure what the issue is.
I experienced this, accompanied by lack of concentration and light headedness. There were days when I would cycle home from work, collapse on the couch with a cup of coffee and nap or go to bed at 7:30. Had been doing some research when helping a friend write a paper and googled insulin resistance. I had most of the symptoms, but when I went to the Dr, he said my bloodwork was normal, but he thought it was probably hypoglycemia. I bought some cinnamon supplement and cut carbs (refined) from my diet - essentially followed an insulin resistance diet, heavy on protein and vegetables. This was 3 weeks ago and I feel reborn. My libido is back, my muscle strength has improved tremendously. I had thought that carbs gave you energy, in my case they robbed me and I was not gaining the benefit of cycling to work and back 3.5 miles each way. I felt I was losing muscle mass, not gaining it. I was also super tired after lunch. With the new diet I started eating in between meals (nuts, cheese, cottage cheese, meat). My mood is considerably better, I feel better than I have in years. Even my bm's are better. (PS, I'm 56.)
I'm surprised nobody here has mentioned more about propylene glycol, after that one post suggesting PG more than VG might be causing tiredness. My first reaction to vaping almost 2 months ago was that I immediately forgot about smoking, yet felt calm. I enjoyed vaping more than cigarettes, and was tending to chain-vape. The thought to grab a cigarette would only kick in under greatest stress. My lungs felt a bit full, and with some flavors I would get a light & short dry cough. Felt a bit dehydrated and constipated. The tiredness flowed in after a week or so, and was then getting more rather than less noticeable.
Ater I read up on the toxic "butterers" that are added to so many flavors, I switched completely to DIY using a 60 to 70 % PG base, never using any of the rich vanillaey flavors and dropped the flavoring level all around to under 5%. My lungs felt better and the cough never returned. But I still felt sleepy, and still tended to constipation. High nicotine, or low nicotine, same thing. The intestinal issues were dealt with using Docusate. I was puzzled that PG is described as a depressant, about 1/3 as potent as alcohol, yet I didn't feel intoxicated. But I did feel sedated in a very subtle sort of way, and my energy level was way down.
So my current experiment is to switch to 20% PG + 80% VG, use only dripping, inhale a bit less, enjoy blowing the vapor out my nose, not chain-vape quite as much, and see how it goes. My nicotine and flavorings carrier is PG, so I can't easily go below 20% PG. It doesn't have to be perfect, just OK. One difference already is more thick mucus in the back of the throat (from the VG?), a minor nuisance but a useful reminder to drink more water.
Sometimes I wonder if we're getting anywhere near as much nicotine as we think. Maybe there's a specific sedation and it masks nicotine deficiency, but incompletely, so we are in nicotine withdrawal AND sedated? I have only OD'd on nicotine once, slightly, after hours of insanely chain-vaping 48 mg/ml juice, and it would seem that at that level the OD would be frequent and pronounced.
Ater I read up on the toxic "butterers" that are added to so many flavors, I switched completely to DIY using a 60 to 70 % PG base, never using any of the rich vanillaey flavors and dropped the flavoring level all around to under 5%. My lungs felt better and the cough never returned. But I still felt sleepy, and still tended to constipation. High nicotine, or low nicotine, same thing. The intestinal issues were dealt with using Docusate. I was puzzled that PG is described as a depressant, about 1/3 as potent as alcohol, yet I didn't feel intoxicated. But I did feel sedated in a very subtle sort of way, and my energy level was way down.
So my current experiment is to switch to 20% PG + 80% VG, use only dripping, inhale a bit less, enjoy blowing the vapor out my nose, not chain-vape quite as much, and see how it goes. My nicotine and flavorings carrier is PG, so I can't easily go below 20% PG. It doesn't have to be perfect, just OK. One difference already is more thick mucus in the back of the throat (from the VG?), a minor nuisance but a useful reminder to drink more water.
Sometimes I wonder if we're getting anywhere near as much nicotine as we think. Maybe there's a specific sedation and it masks nicotine deficiency, but incompletely, so we are in nicotine withdrawal AND sedated? I have only OD'd on nicotine once, slightly, after hours of insanely chain-vaping 48 mg/ml juice, and it would seem that at that level the OD would be frequent and pronounced.
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If 1) PG is anything like other tranks, and 2) VG is either inactive or much weaker, then switching to a juice with a much lower PG to VG level should produce some rebound excitement. Yes, yes, neither the neurotransmitters involved nor all the components, nor even the "dimensions" to observe are known. And this could be happening by a very indirect and complicated mechanism, but the tranking seems real. Relatively mild but real. Bottom line, grosso modo, if PG is in the causal branches in this oft-reported tiredness, then those who feel it and cut PG drastically might well be expected to feel more than "not tired", maybe even a bit nervous. It's not a hard test for DIYers to do. Obviously keep the nicotine level about the same.
P.s. All the popular talk about metabolic mechanisms and neurotransmitters is a lot like describing the mechanisms of a computer by the video games it runs. Our understanding of the brain is still very scattered.
P.s. All the popular talk about metabolic mechanisms and neurotransmitters is a lot like describing the mechanisms of a computer by the video games it runs. Our understanding of the brain is still very scattered.
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Sfetaz; I second a lot of what Fernand said in #64. I was having major problems and I didn't realize how tired I was until I quit vaping. After clearing my system for almost a week I started over using Ecopure that another member posted about (anything plain would probably do but I got that brand as it is lab tested and batch numbered). I also chose no nicotene. In it's almost plain form I am not having problems after using for a week. I am gradually adding small amounts of flavor. Not tired, no foggy head, no chest or stomach pain, no sinus problems, no excessive mouth sores or acne breakouts or excessive thirst (all mentioned frequently in health section and many of which I previously had)
Fernand mentioned cutting flavors to 5%. I believe this will help a lot too. When I gave up vaping and started back with little or no flavor I accidently picked up one of my old carts that was filled and used it. I almost choked. I also got an immediate headache and I am not prone to them. I had a very similar reaction to vaping as I did to analogs when I got away from them - like OMG I did this everyday? I personally do not think that I need the amount of flavor that is in the vendor's premixes and I am diluting everything now and am still getting plenty but none of the bad side effects so far. I also find I need little to no nicotene. (I never liked fooling with it anyway, get too many paper cuts on my hands which would allow it in my system, have to make sure I put it away so pets can't get at it, etc...)
Fernand; just wanted to mention you may want to monitor how your sinuses feel if you are inhaling less and blowing out through your nose....you may want to just alternate and blow some out of your mouth....I may be off base, but I say this as I was doing that too and found for me that some of the drying effects from PG/VG can be cumulative in your sinuses. In the few days during/after I quit vaping I got one of the worst headaches of my life. May be because it was artificially induced by those drying properties that I have never been exposed to, but it was awful and I wouldn't wish it on anyone...kind of snuck up on me. Another poster mentioned it felt as if brain was swelling and that is a good analogy. My ears even felt full, it was just terrible until that pressure went away.
Fernand mentioned cutting flavors to 5%. I believe this will help a lot too. When I gave up vaping and started back with little or no flavor I accidently picked up one of my old carts that was filled and used it. I almost choked. I also got an immediate headache and I am not prone to them. I had a very similar reaction to vaping as I did to analogs when I got away from them - like OMG I did this everyday? I personally do not think that I need the amount of flavor that is in the vendor's premixes and I am diluting everything now and am still getting plenty but none of the bad side effects so far. I also find I need little to no nicotene. (I never liked fooling with it anyway, get too many paper cuts on my hands which would allow it in my system, have to make sure I put it away so pets can't get at it, etc...)
Fernand; just wanted to mention you may want to monitor how your sinuses feel if you are inhaling less and blowing out through your nose....you may want to just alternate and blow some out of your mouth....I may be off base, but I say this as I was doing that too and found for me that some of the drying effects from PG/VG can be cumulative in your sinuses. In the few days during/after I quit vaping I got one of the worst headaches of my life. May be because it was artificially induced by those drying properties that I have never been exposed to, but it was awful and I wouldn't wish it on anyone...kind of snuck up on me. Another poster mentioned it felt as if brain was swelling and that is a good analogy. My ears even felt full, it was just terrible until that pressure went away.
The PG is more powerful than I realized. To me that's the sleepy dial. I was on 80%+ VG all day and after a few hours started getting uncomfortable, nervous. Picking up a cigarette would have been easy. When I picked up an atomizer with a 80 PG/20 VG blend, the "correction" was very noticeable after a few drags. I was able to slowly dial it into a happy medium by alternating, not much, just a few PG drags now and then. I see the PG-intensive mix by itself can definitely pull me down all the way to very sleepy - literally wanting to take a nap. To somebody who's not re-regulating from a period of heavy PG usage, maybe an all VG vape is best. I don't know yet. I sure didn't expect this in such a noticeable way. But I'm at least very happy to be getting a handle on it.
I don't think this is placebo effect. Not for me anyway. Anybody who's vaping mostly PG can check this out on themselves in a few hours by switching to mostly or all VG, and observing. Then see how much PG it takes to bring things back to the previous state. I'm watching it happen right now, every drag on my PG atomizer is like a little nudge of the dial. Amazing.
I think that between the nicotine action and reaction and the PG action and reaction, this is quite a complicated little system, and that's not even including other factors like the missing tobacco alkaloids, and who knows about the VG. My guess would be that (ironically) the nicotine level is not the primary control, which might be just one reason why people don't necessarily react as expected to changes in the nicotine level.
I don't think this is placebo effect. Not for me anyway. Anybody who's vaping mostly PG can check this out on themselves in a few hours by switching to mostly or all VG, and observing. Then see how much PG it takes to bring things back to the previous state. I'm watching it happen right now, every drag on my PG atomizer is like a little nudge of the dial. Amazing.
I think that between the nicotine action and reaction and the PG action and reaction, this is quite a complicated little system, and that's not even including other factors like the missing tobacco alkaloids, and who knows about the VG. My guess would be that (ironically) the nicotine level is not the primary control, which might be just one reason why people don't necessarily react as expected to changes in the nicotine level.
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You are so right. That is why I had to stop for almost a week so I could figure out what is going on....I would be so sleepy (despite having plenty of sleep) one day and fine the next. Other symptoms mentioned could come and go too. Really strange. I am experimenting with 50/50 VG/PG or using all one one day and switching the next.
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This reminds me a little of a research setup for deep divers, where they carried a belt with syringes to regulate their state. Deeper than 1000 feet the convulsive threshold was very tricky, and so were a lot of other things. They would be changing gas mixtures and using injections as needed. There was a light to remind them to breathe ;-)
If you have some nicotine without PG, the thing for you to try would be the same nicotine level in all VG with some flavoring and just enough water to make the viscosity acceptable (it doesn't take much). Or just go as low on the PG as you can.
Let us know how it develops!
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Gotta order some nicotine in VG.
I see in the past some people have cautioned the sleepy vapers about the small amounts of PG from flavoring. Frankly small molecules like PG aren't very likely to be involved in true allergy. And allergic reaction aside, it's all a matter of dosage. If it's indeed simply that PG sedates, and people just vary in how strongly they react to it, and if flavoring is kept to a reasonable level, say 5%, or even 10%, the PG from that is not a big amount compared to what's in even "mostly VG" juices. I would imagine most of us want just enough PG, not zero. Tricky.
I see VapourArt is offering e-liquid in PG/VG, all VG and all PG bases. The flavoring is in the 1-3% range, only two even reach 4%.
I see in the past some people have cautioned the sleepy vapers about the small amounts of PG from flavoring. Frankly small molecules like PG aren't very likely to be involved in true allergy. And allergic reaction aside, it's all a matter of dosage. If it's indeed simply that PG sedates, and people just vary in how strongly they react to it, and if flavoring is kept to a reasonable level, say 5%, or even 10%, the PG from that is not a big amount compared to what's in even "mostly VG" juices. I would imagine most of us want just enough PG, not zero. Tricky.
I see VapourArt is offering e-liquid in PG/VG, all VG and all PG bases. The flavoring is in the 1-3% range, only two even reach 4%.
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Upon my last bloodwork done by my doctor, which happens to be 4 days ago, I was put on a prescription Vitamin D2 supplement 1.25mg (50,000 unit) one tab a week. He said that my Vitamin D levels were very low, but not the lowest he has seen.
Hey guys I skimmed through the posts and have put that and my own account to come to the conclusion that it is definitely not the PG. I first got my e-cig with no nicotine juice and was still smoking (about 6 a day is normal for me), and then found eastmall.net who has $4 20ml bottles. I decided to get the 26mg strength so that I would vape less and maybe cut it. After my first day of using this juice I've felt like crap ever since (a week later). I'm getting enough sleep but it feels like I've been up for days. Also I liken the effects to an amphetamine feeling (such as adderall used for add), but I'm not talking about the good effects just the coming down part (I was on add meds and when I would stop for any period of time I'd feel this effect). I feel tired.. obviously, my concentration is fine but my memory is off, and I'm kind of a zombie right now. I've also had some sharp pains in my chest. I haven't been overdoing it tho, I vape max 1ml of 26mg at most a day. Someone also mentioned that china uses industrial nicotine, the eastmall juice is dekang which seems to be fairly reputable (albeit not liked by some)but who knows. So in summary there must be some additives that some manufacturers are putting into their juice, be it in the flavoring or nicotine used, but its not the PG as I used 0 nic with none of the aforementioned problems. Hopefully this solves this vaping zombies problem, but I'm not kidding myself.
Did some more research this makes more sense to me: It is the nicotine and heres whats happening -
Nicotine itself may also block the release of the hormone insulin. Insulin tells your cells to take up excess glucose from your blood. This means that nicotine makes people somewhat hyperglycemic, having more sugar than usual in their blood. Some people think that nicotine also curbs their appetite so that they eat less. This hyperglycemia could be one explanation why: Their bodies and brain may see the excess sugar and down-regulate the hormones and other signals that are perceived as hunger.
Early signs of hyperglycemia in diabetes include:
Increased thirst
Headaches
Difficulty concentrating
Blurred vision
Frequent urination
Fatigue (weak, tired feeling)
Weight loss
Blood glucose more than 180 mg/dL
So I've had frequent urination, fatigue, and difficulty concentrating. I might get my blood checked out to see my nicotine and glucose levels.
Nicotine itself may also block the release of the hormone insulin. Insulin tells your cells to take up excess glucose from your blood. This means that nicotine makes people somewhat hyperglycemic, having more sugar than usual in their blood. Some people think that nicotine also curbs their appetite so that they eat less. This hyperglycemia could be one explanation why: Their bodies and brain may see the excess sugar and down-regulate the hormones and other signals that are perceived as hunger.
Early signs of hyperglycemia in diabetes include:
Increased thirst
Headaches
Difficulty concentrating
Blurred vision
Frequent urination
Fatigue (weak, tired feeling)
Weight loss
Blood glucose more than 180 mg/dL
So I've had frequent urination, fatigue, and difficulty concentrating. I might get my blood checked out to see my nicotine and glucose levels.
Just stopping by to say I've been vaping for 3 months, and have definitely felt the fatigue. I noticed it early on, and it's continued since. I haven't tried to quit yet, but I'm curious to see peoples' results with quitting and starting again. Currently I vape 30/70 mixtures.
Whats making me so tired is all that running across the street I have to do to get to my mailbox to get all the mods and ejuices and parts and attys and WHEW...getting tired thinking about my run to the mailbox tomorrow......whew
I'm curious as to who mentioned the "industrial nicotine" and what exactly that means?
I too am having problems (different to what is mentioned in this thread) and really beginning to wonder if it's an allergic reaction to the nicotine itself -as insane as that sounds.
Could there indeed be other chemicals or ingredients added to the nicotine we are using for vaping which is different in some way to what is in cigarettes?
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I'm glad I came across this thread. I've also wondered if "vaping" was making me sleepy. I get my Vitamin D, as I own a tanning bed, and I live in Houston where it is sunny 90% of the time. I also take B-12 injections weekly, not to mention sublingual doses daily.
My thing is that when i'm working a 12 hour shift & I get a 15 minute lunch break, I vape. About an hour or so later i'm so tired that if I sit down i'm afraid that my eyes will close. I've never attributed it to vaping, but have considered it, because this never happened before I started vaping.
My thing is that when i'm working a 12 hour shift & I get a 15 minute lunch break, I vape. About an hour or so later i'm so tired that if I sit down i'm afraid that my eyes will close. I've never attributed it to vaping, but have considered it, because this never happened before I started vaping.
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