Vaping...More harm then good? For me yes...Im done!!!!!!

[oldsoldier]

In all honesty I think Kristen got raked over the coals in this thread as well as the OP. I think in her eagerness to promote a safer alternative to analogs she was a bit more vocal than some but her posts are questioning whether the OP had taken into account other side-effects that were related to quitting analogs, dehydration, pre-existing conditions... I think this is something that we must question ourselves as well when a poster does post health problems without having consulted a medical professional beforehand. I think the division in the thread occured early on when the OP was called "stoopid" and it just got more and more polarized as time went on.

I think that people need to step back and take a look at the bigger picture. Forums need the trolls, naysayers, and zealots as well as the balanced opinions. It's like having a balanced ecosystem LOL. If folks just try to remember that the posters are real people and they have feelings as well as opinions things wouldn't get as heated.

My own 2 cents on the matter is Kristin is a bit overzealous and overbearing. She does have good thoughts and opinions, but her presentation is likely to turn people off. But then again there are a lot of people that could say the same about me, or anyone else if they start posting with a degree of conviction beyond what they expected in the responses.

 

[earlfleetwood]

@ Kate - "There is massive data both tested and experience-based to advocate for e-cigs". As I sit here puffing on an e cig, could you please direct me to this data!! I am interested in the data that is tested and not by a company that owns or sells ecigs.

 

[four2109]

I don't understand why members with no heath and safety concerns feel the need to come here and confront anyone who does.
This section is already buried near the end of the topic list. You have the whole forum to tout how wonderful ecigs are.
Maybe this section should be taken off the "todays posts" list.
Posting personal and health issues isn't the same as discussing atomizers. People post here to discuss personal issues with others who may be experiencing the same thing, not to hear from everyone that doesn't.

 

[rothenbj]

@ Kate - "There is massive data both tested and experience-based to advocate for e-cigs". As I sit here puffing on an e cig, could you please direct me to this data!! I am interested in the data that is tested and not by a company that owns or sells ecigs.

Earl, who do you expect would test them if not the companies that own or sell them? We've been working on raising $76k to test the second hand vapor to fight vaping bans. This would be non-company directed research. We're less than half way there after months of trying (see IVAQS Project)

If the FDA saved the money they're wasting on litigation and earmarked some of that money for un-biased studies we'd all be better off. Look at all the fed money wasted on ridiculous 2nd and 3rd and umpteenth hand smoke that anyone with an unbiased brain can see is just political science projects by the anti-s/t/n zealots. Whatever

 

[throatkick]

First off, I hope the OP has seen a positive change in health as the post was made about 1 1/2 months ago.

If the FDA saved the money they're wasting on litigation and earmarked some of that money for un-biased studies we'd all be better off.

Ultimately, this tiny sentence could end countless years and years of debate on most things.

Point being, that UN-biased simply isn't going to happen. The internet has raised the consciousness of humanity quite a bit. Many have realized that everything is $$$ and that is why they are getting all defensive about the OP. They are wondering if he has an ulterior motive etc. "Groups" also needs to be closely examined. Many times, they are purposely set up with 2-3 different viewpoints so as to create controversy and milk it to the bone. The obfuscation usually keeps most mired in the debate and unable to see what's really happening.

After trying e-cigs about two years ago and failing to get off analogs (because the e-cigs sucked), I am analog-free for a week and am never going back. The switch clicked. It is over. 25 years was enough. I am very happy to have found this alternate method to support my heavy nicotine addiction.

 

[Kate51]

@ Kate - "There is massive data both tested and experience-based to advocate for e-cigs". As I sit here puffing on an e cig, could you please direct me to this data!! I am interested in the data that is tested and not by a company that owns or sells ecigs.

This should keep you busy for a few days!!

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...moking/58463-copd-e-cig-me-3.html#post1109555

WhyQuit - Nicotine Withdrawal and Recovery Symptoms

Health New Zealand

Propylene Glycol

Untitled Document

The last three sites include many many alternate links to search through.
I said data was massive, and I wasn't kidding.
Maybe some haven't checked out CASAA.org, there are many more links listed there. A bunch of hard working dedicated people have been compiling and researching for a very long time, and on their own dimes, worth the effort to follow up periodically, and they could use support of all kinds. But they don't need to be villanized, for sure.
That's my reason for being just a bit defensive of these folk's efforts.
And by the way, most or all of these links have at some time or other been posted on ECF. Best of luck to you all!
Knowledge is Power

 

[Phreaker]

could you please direct me to this data!! I am interested in the data that is tested and not by a company that owns or sells ecigs.

Have you read this? Evidence Suggests E-Cigs Safer Than Cigarettes, Researcher Claims | Recent News

From the article: Siegel, MD, has 25 years of experience in the field of tobacco control and claims no financial interest in e-cigarettes.

 

[MichelleDen]

Theres no black and white here.. only alot of grays. I'd have to say, I agree alot with Sainted_S

I've experienced these same symptoms...not to mention fluid retention/edema, since I started vaping.

Please don't let anyone intimidate you into not speaking up about it.

Please stop acting like you are victims..

You and the others saying the same have vastly misunderstood the point. No one in this thread has

tried to stop people telling their experiences or concerns, but what OP basically did was say: I've decided for my self vaping is the reason and am gonna spread it in a public forum. With out ANY thought or CARE for those whos life has been saved by beeing able go quit analogs, via vaping. Cus its hysteria like that thats gonna be the end of vaping. He/she didnt see a doctor!!! hello!!

It is far more likely the panicattacks came from the inhalator. IMO (say again) IMO. I had astma and used inhalators for years with serious panicattacs, heart racing and other symptomes.. THis was before I started smoking.. Have had none of that while vaping, on the contrary, I'm alot calmer and happyer than when I smoked. ANd I really get my panties in a bunch, when someone jeopardize(spelling) my new found happines with clames that they didn't even bother seeing a doctor about..
Your all putting fuel on the ban fire. Tell your symptomes, but do not create mass hysteria and act like some kind of victim, thats ridicolous. The people that dont wanna hear about the negatives, and wanna live in happy I know nothing land, don't come to these threads.. They wont even read them.. I went to this forum cus I wanted to find out if anyone has had bad experiences with vaping, and or serious problems, cus I wanna be ahead. And what do I find??? Hearsay and attempt to stir up fights.

Unfounded worries are ok, but unfounded claims are NOT!

So I think posting a CLAME like OP did, is very egotistical, and if anyone really red what Kristin wrote, nowhere does she try to bully people into not telling about symptomes. Very much on the contrary.. Think she's misunderstood.

 

[Uma]

Theres no black and white here.. only alot of grays. I'd have to say, I agree alot with Sainted_S



Please stop acting like you are victims..

You and the others saying the same have vastly misunderstood the point. No one in this thread has

tried to stop people telling their experiences or concerns, but what OP basically did was say: I've decided for my self vaping is the reason and am gonna spread it in a public forum. With out ANY thought or CARE for those whos life has been saved by beeing able go quit analogs, via vaping. Cus its hysteria like that thats gonna be the end of vaping. He/she didnt see a doctor!!! hello!!

It is far more likely the panicattacks came from the inhalator. IMO (say again) IMO. I had astma and used inhalators for years with serious panicattacs, heart racing and other symptomes.. THis was before I started smoking.. Have had none of that while vaping, on the contrary, I'm alot calmer and happyer than when I smoked. ANd I really get my panties in a bunch, when someone jeopardize(spelling) my new found happines with clames that they didn't even bother seeing a doctor about..
Your all putting fuel on the ban fire. Tell your symptomes, but do not create mass hysteria and act like some kind of victim, thats ridicolous. The people that dont wanna hear about the negatives, and wanna live in happy I know nothing land, don't come to these threads.. They wont even read them.. I went to this forum cus I wanted to find out if anyone has had bad experiences with vaping, and or serious problems, cus I wanna be ahead. And what do I find??? Hearsay and attempt to stir up fights.

Unfounded worries are ok, but unfounded claims are NOT!

So I think posting a CLAME like OP did, is very egotistical, and if anyone really red what Kristin wrote, nowhere does she try to bully people into not telling about symptomes. Very much on the contrary.. Think she's misunderstood.

+ 10
+ 10
+ 10

 

[GregH]

+ 10
+ 10
+ 10

Adding another +10 for good measure.

 

[Kate51]

+ 10
+ 10
+ 10

....me too!

 

[paladinx]

I find all of this rather funny. Maybe Kate remembers me. I used to post on here, than I lost touch with the ecig community and the ecigs in general. It has been probably well over a year, I come back and nothing has changed. Same stories, same arguments, are the devices still the same too? When i left the 510 was the hot item.

But yeah, the health thread has not changed at all. Same old bull.... going on. I figured maybe if I come back at a future date things might change or have gotten sorted. But nope, Same old arguments. The users always get the short end of the stick. You have plenty of people on this forum with vested interest.. This is becoming a very popular internet business. And on the other side of the same coin, you have other vested interests who do not want you to use an E-cig. So GOOOOOD LUCK getting at the truth. That is why I quit all of this ..... You are not gonna get the truth. The only truth we have is posting all of our experiences the good and the bad. But just like in the past, whenever anyone says something negative, you get the zealots attacking them and double talking like a lawyer to negate any negative comments. If only a tiny fraction of people are getting bad side effects, instead of harping on them, Harp on everyone to share all of their experiences. The good and the bad. this thread was started by a guy who has quit smoking many times he said, and only got these negative effects after vaping. That is a pretty important testimonial to me. Nothing is 100 percent, but let the guy talk. It sounds like the common sense cause was e-cigs, of course it cannot be proven 1000 percent. Neither can many other things, but again it seems feasible. LOOK HOW LONG it took for people to realize the effects of cigarette smoking. Most people get effects from smoking after decades, and cigarettes are talked about like they are the devil. Yet the devil takes a ton of consumption to cause major damage. there hasn't even been anyone on here who has vaped for 10 years. So lets keep our heads straight even if some of us have a vested interest in selling devices or products

 

[guitardedmark]

I find all of this rather funny. Maybe Kate remembers me. I used to post on here, than I lost touch with the ecig community and the ecigs in general. It has been probably well over a year, I come back and nothing has changed. Same stories, same arguments, are the devices still the same too? When i left the 510 was the hot item.

But yeah, the health thread has not changed at all. Same old bull.... going on. I figured maybe if I come back at a future date things might change or have gotten sorted. But nope, Same old arguments. The users always get the short end of the stick. You have plenty of people on this forum with vested interest.. This is becoming a very popular internet business. And on the other side of the same coin, you have other vested interests who do not want you to use an E-cig. So GOOOOOD LUCK getting at the truth. That is why I quit all of this ..... You are not gonna get the truth. The only truth we have is posting all of our experiences the good and the bad. But just like in the past, whenever anyone says something negative, you get the zealots attacking them and double talking like a lawyer to negate any negative comments. If only a tiny fraction of people are getting bad side effects, instead of harping on them, Harp on everyone to share all of their experiences. The good and the bad. this thread was started by a guy who has quit smoking many times he said, and only got these negative effects after vaping. That is a pretty important testimonial to me. Nothing is 100 percent, but let the guy talk. It sounds like the common sense cause was e-cigs, of course it cannot be proven 1000 percent. Neither can many other things, but again it seems feasible. LOOK HOW LONG it took for people to realize the effects of cigarette smoking. Most people get effects from smoking after decades, and cigarettes are talked about like they are the devil. Yet the devil takes a ton of consumption to cause major damage. there hasn't even been anyone on here who has vaped for 10 years. So lets keep our heads straight even if some of us have a vested interest in selling devices or products

Amen brother! It seems like the far majority of users on this site aren't interested in truth, honesty from vendors, or anything other than the fairy fantasty land of blissful ignorance.

 

[Kate51]

Amen brother! It seems like the far majority of users on this site aren't interested in truth, honesty from vendors, or anything other than the fairy fantasty land of blissful ignorance.

I do remember you Paladinx, hope you're doing well, and nice to see you in!

But "brother" guitardedmark, I do think I made it quite clear in my post that research never had as comprehensive a role when we started smoking. I smoked for 44 years. I darned near didn't stop in time, try as I may, but am convinced strangling to death was not very attractive way to die. And coughing interferred with almost every puff, as it was.
While none of us have vaped for 10 years, I daresay those of us slowly becoming vape free are now totally convinced of two things:
1) There is nothing about an e-cig that comes close to damage/side-effects cigarettes cause, outside of gross negligence in handling and use.
2) If vaping a bit of nicotine in a cloud of something that has withstood much testing over at least 60 years in the positive column, the idea to DO NO FUTHER HARM has been fulfilled. And even the evil NICOTINE has found it's way into a few positive columns as well, as per research of late.

So to say "fairy fantasy" or "blissful ignorance" are among some of my characteristics, I'd say you overstepped your freedom to express your own opinions and judgements by a mile without too much supporting evidence to back it up. Truth and honesty, I submit, has been a prime goal of ECF. Vendors and users alike are subject to scrutiny and careful consideration by all interested in safety with information submitted, and overall the Forum is one place where the story does still stay the same; is vaping safer than smoking, and why is that, and can we "prove" anything. We've gone from 5000 members in March of 2009 to 51,462 today, so information may be a little harder to dig out than it used to be, but the committment of the Forum is still in place, in spite of the many sidebars now being participated in. We've come a long, long way, and world wide hundreds of thousands of people have benefited....not because of nay-sayers, but because of the truth they found for themselves. Moving on is now an option we can all enjoy.

I'm still alive and breathing, a heck of a lot better (about 99% better!), that's my personal "proof", and I'm sticking by it. I can state exactly why I'm a thriving person again, as silly as that sounds I know it to be my truth.

[edit] The OP obviously was not satisfied with vaping. But to blame vaping for what he experienced was a little naive at best, and was not expressed by submitting hard facts, only opinion and some nasty symptoms. He was able to stop smoking. Should we (vapers) then just let his post stand as "truth"? Not me!

Withdrawal is a very personal phenomenon, and subsequent "cleansing" can be a very unpleasant thing, for a multitude of metaphysical reasons. Very comprehensive, but hardly unexpected, unless you are in a fantasy world regarding your own health.

 

[ScottinSoCal]

Within 3 days of my first sexual experience, I started smoking. Clearly, sex causes smoking.

With a month of buying a truck, I was in my first-ever car accident and also had my first-ever hospital stay. Clearly, owning a truck is dangerous to your health.

Less than a week after we got married, MOH got laid off and hasn't been able to find work since. Clearly, marriage causes unemployment.

Those are the kinds of leaps that have been protested in this thread. Of course some fraction of the population is going to have adverse effects from e-cigs, and I didn't read a single post that denied that, or tried to cover that up. And it's possible that the symptoms described by the OP and others in here are caused by e-cigs - no threads denied that, either. But presenting supposition and guesswork as unvarnished truth does no one any good.

 

[Kate51]

Within 3 days of my first sexual experience, I started smoking. Clearly, sex causes smoking.

With a month of buying a truck, I was in my first-ever car accident and also had my first-ever hospital stay. Clearly, owning a truck is dangerous to your health.

Less than a week after we got married, MOH got laid off and hasn't been able to find work since. Clearly, marriage causes unemployment.

Those are the kinds of leaps that have been protested in this thread. Of course some fraction of the population is going to have adverse effects from e-cigs, and I didn't read a single post that denied that, or tried to cover that up. And it's possible that the symptoms described by the OP and others in here are caused by e-cigs - no threads denied that, either. But presenting supposition and guesswork as unvarnished truth does no one any good.

Cute!!
I had to think waaay back, but I think my first sexual experience probably put me on to smoking, as well. Sooo, I gave up BOTH!! (No, I'm not going to say why!)
It's way too long a story.

 

[MichelleDen]

Of course some fraction of the population is going to have adverse effects from e-cigs, and I didn't read a single post that denied that, or tried to cover that up. And it's possible that the symptoms described by the OP and others in here are caused by e-cigs - no threads denied that, either. But presenting supposition and guesswork as unvarnished truth does no one any good.

Exactly, creating masshysteria is sadly one of the things we humans do best... Noone has, in this thread, tried to stifle anyones attempts to express their worries. And there are heaps of threads where people... tadaa, discuss their worries.
HEY I've wrote about some of my worries in one of them.... To call me and others who feel the same, out as living in blissfull ignorance, shows you guys haven't read the posts properly....I'll say it again though... If I wanted to live in blisfull ignorance, I wouldnt be here!! Wouldnt read anything on a healtissues forum... The whole discussion is silly... If everyone just read exactly what the words say....

 

[guitardedmark]

I do remember you Paladinx, hope you're doing well, and nice to see you in!

But "brother" guitardedmark, I do think I made it quite clear in my post that research never had as comprehensive a role when we started smoking. I smoked for 44 years. I darned near didn't stop in time, try as I may, but am convinced strangling to death was not very attractive way to die. And coughing interferred with almost every puff, as it was.
While none of us have vaped for 10 years, I daresay those of us slowly becoming vape free are now totally convinced of two things:
1) There is nothing about an e-cig that comes close to damage/side-effects cigarettes cause, outside of gross negligence in handling and use.
2) If vaping a bit of nicotine in a cloud of something that has withstood much testing over at least 60 years in the positive column, the idea to DO NO FUTHER HARM has been fulfilled. And even the evil NICOTINE has found it's way into a few positive columns as well, as per research of late.

So to say "fairy fantasy" or "blissful ignorance" are among some of my characteristics, I'd say you overstepped your freedom to express your own opinions and judgements by a mile without too much supporting evidence to back it up. Truth and honesty, I submit, has been a prime goal of ECF. Vendors and users alike are subject to scrutiny and careful consideration by all interested in safety with information submitted, and overall the Forum is one place where the story does still stay the same; is vaping safer than smoking, and why is that, and can we "prove" anything. We've gone from 5000 members in March of 2009 to 51,462 today, so information may be a little harder to dig out than it used to be, but the committment of the Forum is still in place, in spite of the many sidebars now being participated in. We've come a long, long way, and world wide hundreds of thousands of people have benefited....not because of nay-sayers, but because of the truth they found for themselves. Moving on is now an option we can all enjoy.

I'm still alive and breathing, a heck of a lot better (about 99% better!), that's my personal "proof", and I'm sticking by it. I can state exactly why I'm a thriving person again, as silly as that sounds I know it to be my truth.

[edit] The OP obviously was not satisfied with vaping. But to blame vaping for what he experienced was a little naive at best, and was not expressed by submitting hard facts, only opinion and some nasty symptoms. He was able to stop smoking. Should we (vapers) then just let his post stand as "truth"? Not me!

Withdrawal is a very personal phenomenon, and subsequent "cleansing" can be a very unpleasant thing, for a multitude of metaphysical reasons. Very comprehensive, but hardly unexpected, unless you are in a fantasy world regarding your own health.

LMAO! You have got to be kidding me... Who are you even talking to?!?! I don't ever remember saying your name in any of my posts or to be honest even considering you as an individual in my comments. Pretty damn ridiculous that you are preaching to the choir about something that is completely unrelated to what I said. I said "It seems like the far majority of users on this site aren't interested in truth, honesty from vendors, or anything other than the fairy fantasty land of blissful ignorance. " I said absolutely nothing about the safety of e-cigs. I also agreed with the post that said that people flame people for bringing up anything negative about e-cigs. It's true! People will protect their addicition by any means necessary.

Addicition is an absolutely brutal and malicious issue that ALL of us on this site are dealing with. I can't think of anything else besides addiction that frequently has mothers giving away children so they can continue their addiction (whatever that may be). The sad fact of the matter is that from what I've seen, VERY few people have any idea of the psycological effects of addiction. Your defending your precious addiction, even though nobodies attacking it... Get a grip!

I'm thinking I need to go to a more adult vaping forum... It feels like I'm talking about a bunch of emotionally damaged and intellectually disabled 6 year olds here!

PS: There are some really cool people here and I love most of you

 

[rothenbj]

"Addicition is an absolutely brutal and malicious issue that ALL of us on this site are dealing with. I can't think of anything else besides addiction that frequently has mothers giving away children so they can continue their addiction (whatever that may be). The sad fact of the matter is that from what I've seen, VERY few people have any idea of the psycological effects of addiction. Your defending your precious addiction, even though nobodies attacking it... Get a grip!"

LMAOROTF, Guitar, who are the "addicted smokers" that have given their children away? I think addiction in terms of nicotine has been way, way over emphasized by the smoke/tobacco/nicotine prohibitionist. There are just too many people that have quit smoking as soon as they got E cigs, then weaned there way quickly to zero nic to call it that addicting. Let's see your true drug addict do that in a matter of days. I know a lot of folks that climb the walls because they don't get their caffeine fix, or sugar fix or....... anyway, I haven't seen any of those or nicotine "addicts" given away their children.

 

[Kate51]

True, guitardedmark, you just said it in a collective manner, "the majority of users", etc. So I really understood you must have said it to and about all, except Paladinx, who was your "brother" in terms of agreement in this case.....see how one can be all-inclusive with an unfair statement!
You in all fairness were also preaching to the choir (a small one). I do think you over-reacted, more than once in this page alone. Maybe you should try the Three Year Old forums, since there are "emotionally damaged and intellectually disabled 6 year olds here". Exactly what did you mean,

The sad fact of the matter is that from what I've seen, VERY few people have any idea of the psycological effects of addiction. Your defending your precious addiction, even though nobodies attacking it... Get a grip!

I do believe we all pretty much have figured out the downside of any addiction. That's why most of us like to help out by presenting addiction as a phenomenon that can be overcome, and we can help ourselves with a little support from our vaping friends and giving support where needed. An addiction is not just psycological, it is physical as well.
I don't think I meant to "defend my precious addiction"!! Wow, that was harsh. You really need to lighten up.

I've actually celebrated breaking my addiction to smoking here on ECF, and celebrated and commiserated along with many others. For almost two years now.