Vaping nicotine as a never-smoker, why not?

[AndriaD]

Okay, so are you saying you agree with that article? If so, then you admit that the nicotine consumption between the two are not equal? And if you are so quick to feel that article validates your stance, I recommend you keep reading.

I really don't think nicotine by itself is "addictive," I think it somewhat "dependence producing," the same way that caffeine is, or it would not be sold OTC; I won't get into sugar because that's a whole 'nuther can of worms. When nicotine is consumed in combination with the other tobacco alkaloids (including MAOIs), it becomes rather more truly addictive, but I think the level of dependence/addiction will vary according to individual metabolism, susceptibility to the "addiction disease" in any form, and the delivery method. Cigarettes are really the perfect storm of all the necessary ingredients for strong dependence, even true addiction, since many people continue to smoke until it leads to their rather early deaths, even though they know the risks, they just can't quit. Some 20% if I remember correctly.

Just to judge from the accounts around here of those who find themselves decreasing their nicotine levels because they become more sensitive to the more uncomfortable effects of nicotine -- their tolerance is actually decreasing. That doesn't happen with caffeine. And I don't mean those who go from cartos to sub-ohm RDAs, but those whose hardware remains of more or less similar efficiency, but just can't handle that much nicotine anymore. I think that's one of the best secrets about nicotine; that tobacco we smoked had been "doctored" to make our bodies overlook how toxic it is, but when you remove all that "doctoring" and consume just the nicotine, your body is no longer fooled; your natural response to toxins begins to manifest, as the effects of the tobacco gradually wear off. It's brilliant.

Andria

 

[stevegmu]

I'll admit that the article does say that, but the thesis of the article is that nicotine, in and of itself, is ultimately of no real health concern and actually of benefit, thus making your platform rather unstable. So yeah, you got your "addictive" comment, and I got my:

"Nicotine is a mild stimulant and poses negligible risks in healthy people. It enhances the performance of some tasks, especially those involving vigilance and rapid visual cue processing. It can also sharpen memory, concentration and attention in the short term...."

"As a result, researchers can be far more definitive when they conclude that gum, patches, lozenges, inhalers, and sprays – all of which contain medicinal nicotine — are not carcinogenic and do not increase the risk of heart attack or stroke, even in people with pre-existing cardiac disease...."

"In his interview with Nocera, Zeller said that 'when nicotine is attached to smoke particles, it will kill.' Conversely, when there is no smoke, nicotine alone will be far safer, even a net benefit...."

Do no negligible risks in healthy people become risks in those who aren't healthy? The majority of Americans are not healthy...

 

[DergBerg]

Do no negligible risks in healthy people become risks in those who aren't healthy? The majority of Americans are not healthy...

I'm not sure if this has been said, but a recent study showed in cells that are already cancerous, nicotine accelerated the growth of the cancer. So if you have been diagnosed with cancer, it is best to stay away from Nicotine. I would link the study if remembered where it was!

 

[stevegmu]

I'm not sure if this has been said, but a recent study showed in cells that are already cancerous, nicotine accelerated the growth of the cancer. So if you have been diagnosed with cancer, it is best to stay away from Nicotine. I would link the study if remembered where it was!

Not just cancer, but cardiovascular issues and how nicotine affects insulin...

 

[DergBerg]

Not just cancer, but cardiovascular issues and how nicotine affects insulin...

I've heard many conflicting reports on the cardiovascular issues. I'm making it my own duty to stay up to date on my own cardiovascular health, considering that I am 20.

Could you expand on the insulin issue? I don't know anything on that lol. I'm not diabetic, but when my blood sugar is too low I will pass out. Nicotine during this blood sugar fit almost guarantees that I will pass out.

Thanks in advance! Sorry if I am beating a dead horse... I should have subscribed to this thread before it got huge!

 

[Racehorse]

Do no negligible risks in healthy people become risks in those who aren't healthy? The majority of Americans are not healthy...

I guess it depends what the problem is. I do believe nic is a vaso-constrictor. My brother has raynaud's in his hands. We experimented with nicotine and no nictotine. There was a marked difference when using no nicotine for him.

I know people will have anecdotals to contest what surgeons say, but skin/tissue sometimes doesn't heal as well with vaso constrictor influence. I mean, just think about it, this is common sense. All those little capillaries, etc.

One of the reasons why massage therapy works so well for injuries? Because it stimulates oxygen / blood flow to the injured area. That is what you want. So, when I am recuperating from injury I shy away from nicotine.....anything that is going to restrict anything in your body is not going to make an injury heal "faster" or "better". Since we don't have a microscope and MRI going to "watch" this, it is hard to grasp.....but the blood flow to any injury is going to make the area heal faster.

I had some numb lower extremities when using nicotine and during the weeks I use 0% I just don't have that. Since I can get by w/out nicotine, and since I have certain conditions that are not *helped* by nicotine, there is no reason to over use it.

So again, it depends on whether you have a condition like anxiety or brain fog or Crohn's Disease, nicotine is going to help you.

If you have Raynauds disease, serious heart problems, or are trying to recuperate quickly from an injury or a major surgery which involves a lot of vascular stuff, nicotine will ABSOLUTELY not help you. It may not hurt some people but it will certainly not advantageously speed your healing in any way

 

[stevegmu]

I guess it depends what the problem is. I do believe nic is a vaso-constrictor. My brother has raynaud's in his hands. We experimented with nicotine and no nictotine. There was a marked difference when using no nicotine for him.

I know people will have anecdotals to contest what surgeons say, but skin/tissue sometimes doesn't heal as well with vaso constrictor influence. I mean, just think about it, this is common sense. All those little capillaries, etc.

One of the reasons why massage therapy works so well for injuries? Because it stimulates oxygen / blood flow to the injured area. That is what you want. So, when I am recuperating from injury I shy away from nicotine.....anything that is going to restrict anything in your body is not going to make an injury heal "faster" or "better". Since we don't have a microscope and MRI going to "watch" this, it is hard to grasp.....but the blood flow to any injury is going to make the area heal faster.

I had some numb lower extremities when using nicotine and during the weeks I use 0% I just don't have that. Since I can get by w/out nicotine, and since I have certain conditions that are not *helped* by nicotine, there is no reason to over use it.

So again, it depends on whether you have a condition like anxiety or brain fog or Crohn's Disease, nicotine is going to help you.

If you have Raynauds disease, serious heart problems, or are trying to recuperate quickly from an injury or a major surgery which involves a lot of vascular stuff, nicotine will ABSOLUTELY not help you. It may not hurt some people but it will certainly not advantageously speed your healing in any way

How many Americans are pre hypertensive, hypertensive, obese or overweight, pre diabetic or diabetic or on prescriptions? More than half I am sure. If one is healthy, I imagine nicotine use would have little to no adverse health consequences...

 

[stevegmu]

I've heard many conflicting reports on the cardiovascular issues. I'm making it my own duty to stay up to date on my own cardiovascular health, considering that I am 20.

Could you expand on the insulin issue? I don't know anything on that lol. I'm not diabetic, but when my blood sugar is too low I will pass out. Nicotine during this blood sugar fit almost guarantees that I will pass out.

Thanks in advance! Sorry if I am beating a dead horse... I should have subscribed to this thread before it got huge!

Nicotine Tied to Insulin Response in Healthy Mice
Acute nicotine exposure promoted insulin resistance in non-obese, nondiabetic mice, while chronic exposure increased insulin sensitivity, researchers stated.

Nicotine Tied to Insulin Response in Healthy Mice | Medpage Today

 

[DergBerg]

@stevegmu Thanks!!

 

[Racehorse]

Again, I explained how any vasocontrictor will affect tissues and vascular system.

My philosophy of life is "less is more" (unless its money ) so I use moderation in just about every aspect of my life, including vaping and nicotine and flavoring intake and %, food, sun, etc. It's called self-restraint.

I think the opposite of that is called Gluttony.

And gluttony and over-indulgence is actually the reason for many illnesses, as they are "diseases of lifestyle" and often completely reversible or ameliorated by self discipline and moderation. (obesity that is not attached to an underlying medical condition, for instance) and things like overdrawn credit cards, etc.

 

[stevegmu]

Again, I explained how any vasocontrictor will affect tissues and vascular system.

My philosophy of life is "less is more" (unless its money ) so I use moderation in just about every aspect of my life, including vaping and nicotine and flavoring intake and %, food, sun, etc. It's called self-restraint.

I think the opposite of that is called Gluttony.

And that is actually the reason for many illnesses, as they are "diseases of lifestyle" and often completely reversible or ameliorated by self discipline and moderation. (obesity that is not attached to an underlying medical condition, for instance.)

This is why I balance things out. I have a gluttonous lifestyle while on holiday- a few cigarettes, pork and sausages, fillet mignon, beer, liquor, the women... In between trips- no drinking, no sugary drinks, lots of salads, eating well, working out...

 

[Mazinny]

Mine was pretty much opposite. When I first switched to vaping I had been borderline on my test. Doc did not seem worried. My dad side of the family does have high blood pressure running all over it. So it didn't surprise me. I was also working 70 hour work weeks with a high stress load.

After a year of vaping the doc said my blood pressure wads down. Of course I wasn't working 70 hours at the time.

I haven't been back in a year and a half. The dreaded 50 year test is scaring the beezebuz out of me.

There are many different factors impacting blood pressure. The fact that my blood pressure was lower when i was smoking than it is now does not mean anything until and unless we factor in in other changes in my physiology and lifestyle. As i stated before, i was also younger when i smoked as well as more active.

In any case i am not comparing vaping and smoking, i am comparing vaping and not vaping. Preliminary ( self-measured ) data seems to indicate that vaping may be effecting my blood pressure. That's all. It may or may not have an effect on others. And i am also not commenting on nicotine's other side effects or benefits.

Like i said before, i don't really care about the politics of it, nor in its side effects vs. benefits in others. I care mostly about how it affects me. Like any drug, the benefits and side effects are dose dependent and may or may not effect other individuals. And it's effects ( positive and negative ) will likely vary in degree in each individual as well.

 

[AndriaD]

Again, I explained how any vasocontrictor will affect tissues and vascular system.

My philosophy of life is "less is more" (unless its money ) so I use moderation in just about every aspect of my life, including vaping and nicotine and flavoring intake and %, food, sun, etc. It's called self-restraint.

I think the opposite of that is called Gluttony.

And gluttony and over-indulgence is actually the reason for many illnesses, as they are "diseases of lifestyle" and often completely reversible or ameliorated by self discipline and moderation. (obesity that is not attached to an underlying medical condition, for instance) and things like overdrawn credit cards, etc.

I find myself more and more drawn into this style of existence; it's also good medicine, to use the least medicine necessary to get the job done.

I suspect that once I'm done with the WTA and decrease my nicotine to about 5mg for the winter, in the Spring I may feel no need to go back to a higher nic level. Maybe 6mg. I only increased from 6mg when I first quit smoking so I could put the thing down now and then.

Andria

 

[bluecat]

Back to the vegetable and nicotine myth... It is like 200 lbs, or something crazy like that, of tomatoes to get the same nicotine from 1 ml of 2.4% e-liquid...
Most vapers in America are overweight, so it stands to reason they probably aren't in the greatest cardiovascular health to begin with...

I thought you stated nicotine is addictive? Like I said delivery and amount. Both not one eclusively.

Hopefully some one somewhere will do an accurate study. For now we can speculate.

Most people in America are overweight. It has nothing to do with vaping. Once the government lowered the bar it included more people. Funny how that is.

So let's ban fatty foods. That would do much more good than banning nicotine which is probably .0000000001 percent of the cause for rise in blood pressure. Of course I made that percentage up just for emphasis.

 

[stevegmu]

I thought you stated nicotine is addictive? Like I said delivery and amount. Both not one eclusively.

Hopefully some one somewhere will do an accurate study. For now we can speculate.

Most people in America are overweight. It has nothing to do with vaping. Once the government lowered the bar it included more people. Funny how that is.

So let's ban fatty foods. That would do much more good than banning nicotine which is probably .0000000001 percent of the cause for rise in blood pressure. Of course I made that percentage up just for emphasis.

If you eat 200 lbs of tomatoes per day, there is a chance you will get addicted to the nicotine in them...
One's condition has everything you do with how nicotine use on a daily basis can affect them...
A sedentary lifestyle, poor eating habits and lack of excercise are the problem, not the government lowering the bar...

 

[bluecat]

There are many different factors impacting blood pressure. The fact that my blood pressure was lower when i was smoking than it is now does not mean anything until and unless we factor in in other changes in my physiology and lifestyle. As i stated before, i was also younger when i smoked as well as more active.

In any case i am not comparing vaping and smoking, i am comparing vaping and not vaping. Preliminary ( self-measured ) data seems to indicate that vaping may be effecting my blood pressure. That's all. It may or may not have an effect on others. And i am also not commenting on nicotine's other side effects or benefits.

Like i said before, i don't really care about the politics of it, nor in its side effects vs. benefits in others. I care mostly about how it affects me. Like any drug, the benefits and side effects are dose dependent and may or may not effect each individual to a smaller or larger degree.

Which is what we all can do. One chooses their body's comsumption. If you feel that vaping is causes your blood pressure to rise by all means stop. I submit you will be better off lowering your blood pressure by diet, exercise, and leading a less stressful life.

VG does have sugars in it that could cause the rise depending on how you body metabolized it.

Your body is yours alone. Do with as you will.
My experiences with vaping have been opposite yours.

 

[bluecat]

If you eat 200 lbs of tomatoes per day, there is a chance you will get addicted to the nicotine in them...
One's condition has everything you do with how nicotine use on a daily basis can affect them...
A sedentary lifestyle, poor eating habits and lack of excercise are the problem, not the government lowering the bar...

I am not sure how you disagree with every ones assertion then.

Yes that is a cause but the lowering of the bar is a cause. Ebro time I see my daughter laying on the couch with her iPhone plugged in watching netflix. I tell her to get her fat .... up and do some activities. You know what her response is? Everyone at school is fatter than me.

I would rather treat something g at its cause rather than at the effect.


Unfortunately she was diagnosed with a thyroid disease at age 10. After 4 trips to the doc and him just saying it's normal I finally told him it wasnt. He looked at her again and said" strange I can't feel her thyroid. Needless to say which switched docs and are relentless to get the weight off that it put on her. We have success but not fully. It was a hard battle but we overcame it.

I still believe that what a lot of us are teeming as an addiction is not. If it is an addiction to make yourself feel better then I am an addict to everything that makes me feel better.

 

[Mazinny]

Which is what we all can do. One chooses their body's comsumption. If you feel that vaping is causes your blood pressure to rise by all means stop. I submit you will be better off lowering your blood pressure by diet, exercise, and leading a less stressful life.

VG does have sugars in it that could cause the rise depending on how you body metabolized it.

Your body is yours alone. Do with as you will.
My experiences with vaping have been opposite yours.

This may well be true, but i really haven't made a comment about my experiences with vaping in general, and i definitely didn't make any comment about whether or not i want to stop vaping. Vaping ( vs. smoking ) has clearly had a positive effect on my life.

All i said was given that my diet, amount of stress, and level of physical activity were constant during the period i have been measuring my blood pressure, it seems to me that vaping is having an effect on my blood pressure. FWIW my diet is pretty healthy and there is very little stress in my life currently. My level of physical activity should probably increase though. I need to have an operation on a torn meniscus in order to exercise more.

 

[KatzWh1skers]

I'm not sure if this has been said, but a recent study showed in cells that are already cancerous, nicotine accelerated the growth of the cancer. So if you have been diagnosed with cancer, it is best to stay away from Nicotine. I would link the study if remembered where it was!

I would be interested in this study link specifically , if you should find it. thanx

 

[bluecat]

This may well be true, but i really haven't made a comment about my experiences with vaping in general, and i definitely didn't make any comment about whether or not i want to stop vaping. Vaping ( vs. smoking ) has clearly had a positive effect on my life.

All i said was given that my diet, amount of stress, and level of physical activity were constant during the period i have been measuring my blood pressure, it seems to me that vaping is having an effect on my blood pressure. FWIW my diet is pretty healthy and there is very little stress in my life currently. My level of physical activity should probably increase though. I need to have an operation on a torn meniscus in order to exercise more.

Mate not sure what I am missing. Your body is different than mine. Apparently many other here on ecf as threads have stated lower blood pressure from switching.

I am not arguing that your blood pressure isn't rising. I am not you and would never state that you do not know your own body. It may very well be the cause in you.


I am sharing the opposite with you.