Vaping nicotine as a never-smoker, why not?

[VNeil]

What data is needed to refute his conclusions? Surely you jest or are you really that obtuse, good sir?

Yes, I really am that obtuse.

 

[stevegmu]

Caffeine isn't particularly healthy, but I'm as addicted to it as I am nicotine...

 

[motordude]

Intriguing read.
Thanks op.

 

[WillyZee]

Ok here it goes:

I started with a 12mg/ml solution made with my premade 0-nicotine ejuice and continued to vape throughout my entire experiment.
Keep in mind that my experience was probably also affected by all my expectations and thoughts on the matter, and so some placebo effect/self suggestion is probably at play too.

t+0:01
First draw, I now experience throat hit for my first time. Really unpleasant burning/irritation sensation, cannot understand how anyone would actually enjoy this. I coughed a few times in the beginning.
t+0:03
Not sure if this is working, I can't feel anything at all.
t+0:05
My senses seem enhanced somehow. I decide to walk to the post office to pick up a package. Very slight energy level increase.
I notice everything seems brighter. My vision is sharper (I am strongly nearsighted). Colors appear much more saturated, as if on an AMOLED display. Sounds are more vivid. Smells too.
t+0:10
For some reason I feel content, can't keep myself from smiling constantly, would probably laugh if it wasn't inappropriate to laugh for no apparent reason in public. Not sure if this was the nicotine or just me being excited about the novel experience.
t+0:15
I arrive to the post office. My thoughts seem clearer than normal. I feel more energized than before, more sociable than usual.
t+0:20
I walk outside, and decide to go to a nearby jazz exhibition. A Ferrari and a Jaguar drive by, startling me as sounds seem louder than normal.
Music felt much more immersive, sounding sharper than normal. Colors continue to seem more saturated than usual.
t+0:35
I begin getting a sense of overall relaxation and calmness flowing throughout my body and mind, replacing the earlier stimulation. I decide to eat some salad with fresh tomatoes, avocado and olive oil. Even though this is something I eat regularly, this time it tasted way better and was much more pleasant overall.

By now, I had vaped approximately 2ml or 24mg of nicotine in a little over half an hour.
I stopped as my tank was empty, went home and the effects gradually subsided.

---

Though I personally have a non-addictive personality, I really struggle to see how one would get dependent on this. Throat sensation aside, it had pleasant effects for sure, but nothing that lead me to crave more when the effects subsided.

After having tried both, I find caffeine to be a way harsher and much more powerful stimulant, though perhaps without the sense-enhancing part.


TL;DR:
Greatly enhanced senses, first mild stimulation then relaxation. Nothing major really. Much,much milder and subtler stimulation effect than a strong coffee.

Not sure if you would be better at Fiction or Non-Fiction ... but dude, you got some writing skills that are worth honing into some dough.


Sent via iPhone

 

[mosspa]

Are you referring to this study?

Nicotine absorption from electronic cigarette use: comparison between first and new-generation devices : Scientific Reports

I've also seen this article published here quoted, which implies the average cig delivers 0.8mg and the delivery rate of the average eCig is 50% of the actual nic content, such that it would take 1.6mg of eJuice to equal one cig. And then I think goes on to say that that 50% number varies significantly, depending on the gear (EVOD vs high wattage RDA and etc). And just the 0.8mg cig number would vary since nic content in cigs is supposed to vary significantly, from regular to light to ultra-light versions.

A list of symptoms when quitting tobacco and changing to an ecigarette | E-Cigarette Forum

My own experience with EVOD type gear and 18-24mg nic was that it took quite some time, if ever, to equate to a real cig, consistent with the first study. And my own experience with 50mg vaping is similar to yours, it is a hell of a hit . And probably very comparable to a cig and although I don't want to directly compare. Someone who is still dual using would have to test that one out.

Yes, that is the study.

 

[VNeil]

Yes, that is the study.

It is interesting that most PAD smokers starting out with EVOD level gear (similar to the study) find 24mg to be too strong, yet the study concludes that 50mg would be more appropriate.

I started with 24mg and wanted more. But from what I've read on the forum I was atypical.

It may be that new users are overusing their eCigs (at higher concentrations), in an attempt to get something out of the eCig that they are missing (other alkaloids or whatever). Most eCig users do not stop at the 4-5 puffs an hour that you do at 50mg.

 

[mosspa]

It is interesting that most PAD smokers starting out with EVOD level gear (similar to the study) find 24mg to be too strong, yet the study concludes that 50mg would be more appropriate.

I started with 24mg and wanted more. But from what I've read on the forum I was atypical.

It may be that new users are overusing their eCigs (at higher concentrations), in an attempt to get something out of the eCig that they are missing (other alkaloids or whatever). Most eCig users do not stop at the 4-5 puffs an hour that you do at 50mg.

I vaped again last night. In all I took about 15 drags over a 1.5 hr period (48 mg/ml). The first few were necessarily low volume. However, as I got near the end of the vaping interval, I was taking in whole mouthfuls of vapor. Except for the intensity of the throat hit, I experienced nothing that I call negative. I've explained why I vape at 45-48 mg/ml. Granted, I am not into this for smoking cessation. Additionally, as far as nicotine concentrations go, I really don't think there is a well defined maximal level. If you are an experienced vaper, I'm sure your body would warn you if you were getting too much.

Another thing to remember is that the half-life of nicotine in the bloodstream is between 2-3 hrs. So, you are constantly metabolizing it at that rate. It takes about five half-lives to completely clear the blood of nicotine. When I was vaping daily, I would generally stop at about 1:00 am and not start up again until noon, or so (just before my first classes started). So, every day (assuming a 2.5 hr half-life) I was pretty near nicotine free when I started vaping. Given those pharmacokinetics, I doubt I ever reached a steady state blood concentration that was anywhere near peak over the 17 weeks I vaped during my last cycle. Also, there were some weekend days where I didn't vape at all, so on the day after those days my blood nicotine concentration was at zero and I'd be starting over from scratch.

 

[rico942]

Caffeine isn't particularly healthy, but I'm as addicted to it as I am nicotine...

I'm waiting for "caffotine", then my life will be much more simple ...

 

[Jode]

I'm waiting for "caffotine", then my life will be much more simple ...

I don't know why but I found this very funny. I think I would be on board with caffotine as well. I might need a nicoquill for night time though. Of course these amazing products would only be able to be used by those that used nicotine, caffeine and nyquill in the past

 

[pennysmalls]

The general manager at my local B&M told me there are e liquids you can buy with caffeine and even melatonin. I had never heard of such a thing and hope these concoctions don't cause any trouble for us.

 

[ReigntheGamer]

The general manager at my local B&M told me there are e liquids you can buy with caffeine and even melatonin. I had never heard of such a thing and hope these concoctions don't cause any trouble for us.

I forget the name of the site but I looked at it once way back since I use melatonin in the evenings. But thought it best to keep using the supplements and keep my juice out of it.

 

[Jman8]

I'm thinking that in Colorado, Washington and California, they aren't just vaping nicotine.

And given all the crazy laws / regulations that California has, knowing that it isn't just nicotine they are vaping, does help put certain things in perspective.

 

[coralsands]

Browsing these forums, I have gotten the impression that vaping as a never-smoker is frowned upon by many (most?) in the vaping community. Even more so if vaping nicotine.

I get it that some of you after having suffered for decades with tobacco addiction want to avoid having others go down the same road, but the two can't actually be compared in terms of overall negative effects.

So really, I find this sort of stigmatization unfounded and unreasonable.

Personally, as a never-smoker, I have started vaping with the intention of getting a "quick boost" via nicotine, much like I already do with a double-shot espresso with lots of caffeine, when I need to throughout the day, in a convenient pocketable form factor. Which let's face it, is also kind of cool.

This is after getting very favorable nootropic-like results with nicotine patches. In my experience I see little difference between nicotine alone and caffeine.
As a matter of fact, I find caffeine worse in terms of withdrawal.

I don't have much of a tendency to addiction myself, and besides, nicotine by itself seems to have negligible negative health effects according to research, as well as limited addiction potential, so I really don't see any reason not to use it standalone.

Nicotine ≠ Tobacco

Also, I find the concern of vaping risking of becoming a gateway to smoking to be unfounded.
I can't ever see myself nor anyone else who has willingly avoided them for >2 decades, going suddenly over to smoking analog cigarettes being aware of their catastrophic impact on health.

Also, as more youths come of age, wanting to try out nicotine it'll be much better to get them vaping over smoking/snus or dealing with tobacco in general.

So why should able-minded never-smokers adults be stigmatized for wanting to vape nicotine?

EDIT:
If anyone wants to form for themselves an educated opinion about Nicotine's merits and facts, make yourself a favor and read this: Nicotine - Gwern.net

Limited addiction potential? i dont know about that. Trust me, if you've never experienced addiction then you have no idea what its like. nicotine addiction isnt too bad but you will get addicted if you continue to use it. and you haven't experienced full nicotine withdrawal yet, its not something that happens instantly after you use it a few times, its something that builds up the more you use it. You think you can control it but if you use with any regularity then you will realize how wrong you were and how much of a pain in the ... quitting really is. You will also stop getting the positive benefits with regular use(whatever you think those are) Theres a reason addiction is considered a disease. All the research in the world will not give you a full understanding of what addiction is like. Again, nicotine addiction isnt the worst addiction you could have but subjecting yourself to any addiction is one of the dumbest things you can do. Sorry for the rant(iv had my fair share of regretable addictions that i started out justifying in the fashion that you are now)

 

[bluecat]

I'm waiting for "caffotine", then my life will be much more simple ...

Caffeine Infused Vape Stick: RUSH

Not sure what it is like.

The real interesting question.. will they be regulated too.

 

[coralsands]

Browsing these forums, I have gotten the impression that vaping as a never-smoker is frowned upon by many (most?) in the vaping community. Even more so if vaping nicotine.

I get it that some of you after having suffered for decades with tobacco addiction want to avoid having others go down the same road, but the two can't actually be compared in terms of overall negative effects.

So really, I find this sort of stigmatization unfounded and unreasonable.

Personally, as a never-smoker, I have started vaping with the intention of getting a "quick boost" via nicotine, much like I already do with a double-shot espresso with lots of caffeine, when I need to throughout the day, in a convenient pocketable form factor. Which let's face it, is also kind of cool.

This is after getting very favorable nootropic-like results with nicotine patches. In my experience I see little difference between nicotine alone and caffeine.
As a matter of fact, I find caffeine worse in terms of withdrawal.

I don't have much of a tendency to addiction myself, and besides, nicotine by itself seems to have negligible negative health effects according to research, as well as limited addiction potential, so I really don't see any reason not to use it standalone.

Nicotine ≠ Tobacco

Also, I find the concern of vaping risking of becoming a gateway to smoking to be unfounded.
I can't ever see myself nor anyone else who has willingly avoided them for >2 decades, going suddenly over to smoking analog cigarettes being aware of their catastrophic impact on health.

Also, as more youths come of age, wanting to try out nicotine it'll be much better to get them vaping over smoking/snus or dealing with tobacco in general.

So why should able-minded never-smokers adults be stigmatized for wanting to vape nicotine?

EDIT:
If anyone wants to form for themselves an educated opinion about Nicotine's merits and facts, make yourself a favor and read this: Nicotine - Gwern.net

Also, nicotine speeds up your bodys metabolism of caffeine so you will crash sooner from caffeine if your mixing the two

 

[WharfRat1976]

It is interesting that most PAD smokers starting out with EVOD level gear (similar to the study) find 24mg to be too strong, yet the study concludes that 50mg would be more appropriate.

I started with 24mg and wanted more. But from what I've read on the forum I was atypical.

It may be that new users are overusing their eCigs (at higher concentrations), in an attempt to get something out of the eCig that they are missing (other alkaloids or whatever). Most eCig users do not stop at the 4-5 puffs an hour that you do at 50mg.

28mg nic chokes me out. 50mg would be lethal. Just goes to show how bogus and meaningless these studies really are.

 

[WharfRat1976]

I vaped again last night. In all I took about 15 drags over a 1.5 hr period (48 mg/ml). The first few were necessarily low volume. However, as I got near the end of the vaping interval, I was taking in whole mouthfuls of vapor. Except for the intensity of the throat hit, I experienced nothing that I call negative. I've explained why I vape at 45-48 mg/ml. Granted, I am not into this for smoking cessation. Additionally, as far as nicotine concentrations go, I really don't think there is a well defined maximal level. If you are an experienced vaper, I'm sure your body would warn you if you were getting too much.

Another thing to remember is that the half-life of nicotine in the bloodstream is between 2-3 hrs. So, you are constantly metabolizing it at that rate. It takes about five half-lives to completely clear the blood of nicotine. When I was vaping daily, I would generally stop at about 1:00 am and not start up again until noon, or so (just before my first classes started). So, every day (assuming a 2.5 hr half-life) I was pretty near nicotine free when I started vaping. Given those pharmacokinetics, I doubt I ever reached a steady state blood concentration that was anywhere near peak over the 17 weeks I vaped during my last cycle. Also, there were some weekend days where I didn't vape at all, so on the day after those days my blood nicotine concentration was at zero and I'd be starting over from scratch.

So you did the Bill Clinton non inhale...LAWLZ

 

[WharfRat1976]

Limited addiction potential? i dont know about that. Trust me, if you've never experienced addiction then you have no idea what its like. nicotine addiction isnt too bad but you will get addicted if you continue to use it. and you haven't experienced full nicotine withdrawal yet, its not something that happens instantly after you use it a few times, its something that builds up the more you use it. You think you can control it but if you use with any regularity then you will realize how wrong you were and how much of a pain in the ... quitting really is. You will also stop getting the positive benefits with regular use(whatever you think those are) Theres a reason addiction is considered a disease. All the research in the world will not give you a full understanding of what addiction is like. Again, nicotine addiction isnt the worst addiction you could have but subjecting yourself to any addiction is one of the dumbest things you can do. Sorry for the rant(iv had my fair share of regretable addictions that i started out justifying in the fashion that you are now)

RIGHT. Non addicts all over this thread telling addicts that certain substances are not addictive. It's a comedy of ignorance and misunderstanding.

 

[VNeil]

28mg nic chokes me out. 50mg would be lethal. Just goes to show how bogus and meaningless these studies really are.

I drip 50mg on occasion and I'm not dead either. You might try it. Might help your cognitive abilities

 

[ReigntheGamer]

Group vape in 3...2...1