Vaping nicotine as a never-smoker, why not?
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I started with 48mg juices from MyFreedomSmokes, transitioning from Njoy Bolds at 45mg, and it got me through the initial tobacco cravings ... 
After a few weeks stepped down through 36mg to 24mg, which is still just right for me, in my tiny little Elips ...
I suppose different people react in different ways. Like the guy at the bar who does shots all night with no apparent effect, and the next person who is wobbly after two beers ...
After a few weeks stepped down through 36mg to 24mg, which is still just right for me, in my tiny little Elips ...
I suppose different people react in different ways. Like the guy at the bar who does shots all night with no apparent effect, and the next person who is wobbly after two beers ...
Vaping melatonin would be a waste of time. Melatonin is a relatively fragile molecule. It won't even survive the gut (which is why oral, non-sublingual, melatonin doesn't get into the bloodstream). I seriously doubt it would survive being boiled
I take this rant as trying to put vice addictions into perspective. Many people are addicted to things that aren't consider vices, therefore the "disease" connotation isn't readily employed, even while it arguably could be. I honestly don't know if I've met, or heard about anyone, that wasn't plausibly addicted to something.
And with that perspective, when comparing nicotine addiction to other types of addiction, it is tame. Especially tame if the nicotine is coming through vaping compared to smoking.
But literally telling anyone who is feeling like they are in the throes of their own addiction, that it is tame, is like trying to discuss with a guy how big his ego is or discussing with a woman her weight. Lots and lots of tip toeing going on in that sort of discussion.
"Limited" is not the correct word. "No" would be a more correct word. NO study has ever demonstrated nicotine dependence when nicotine is divorced from tobacco. Therefore, it is most likely impossible to become "addicted" vaping nicotine. However, because of the loose definition of "addiction" (as in sex addiction, gambling addiction, internet addiction, food addiction, etc.), as with many formed habits you very probably can become "addicted" to vaping, but it has little to do with the nicotine.
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I don't think I could become addicted to the patch, either, but we are talking about ingesting nicotine through vaping, not the patch...
I'm vaping 48 mg/ml as I'm typing this. Doesn't seem too lethal to me.
Symptoms of withdrawal are a sure sign of addiction. Take the mod away from most people on this forum for a few days and see what happens...
You do realize you are supporting my habit strength hypothesis with that statement, don't you?
Vaping without nicotine, or even low nicotine does absolutely nothing for me. I will still get irritated and not think straight. It is the nicotine in vaping which is key for me...
My wife is a never smoker. She also picked up the vaping habit as both a way to further bond with me (lets face it, vaping does become a way of life) and a way to relax after a day at work. She mostly vapes on 0mg but she does have some juices with 1.5mg nicotine for when she craves a little pick me up. She almost never drinks coffee (I on the other hand, use straight espresso beans in my chemex). So the 1.5mg really helps her out.
I see no reason never smokers shouldn't vape. If that's what you wanna do then go for it. Smoking is something my wife tolerated from me. I'm further convinced she's the woman for me since she sees vaping as something she wants to enjoy with me.
I see no reason never smokers shouldn't vape. If that's what you wanna do then go for it. Smoking is something my wife tolerated from me. I'm further convinced she's the woman for me since she sees vaping as something she wants to enjoy with me.
Most people on this forum are vaping to reduce or eliminate tobacco use, and I would also predict that most of those people were very long duration tobacco users (15 years+). Again, a habit strength hypothesis fits this much better than a physical dependence hypothesis.
Only because nicotine has salient cues for its presence. VNeil and I have discussed this a few pages back.
I would guess the average age of new members would put them as young children when they started smoking, if they smoked 15 years...
Once they quit smoking they should be able to vape 0 nic without withdrawal then, correct?
No one really believes that anymore than most don't believe modern day snake oil salesmen...
Not necessarily. Their brains will recognize the absence of nicotine, and reinforce any incorrect belief they have that nicotine is responsible for their 'dependence'. Expectancy is an amazing thing.
Here is a good example. About 20 years ago, I was the principal neuroscientist on a mostly-government scientist task force looking into the etiology of Multiple Chemical Sensitivity (i.e., when very low concentrations of various odiferous compounds [mostly organic solvent based] cause afflicted persons to experience many, sometimes very severe symptoms, presumably after some initial chemically sensitizing event or exposure]. Having observed relatively severe reactions of these people to very low concentrations of gasoline, perfume, and even scented soap, I initially drank the kool-aid and started a research program in my own lab looking at the potential for nasal epithelium receptors to directly sensitize the brain's limbic system (unlike any other sensory modality, there is a direct pathway from the smell organ to the amygdala (a nucleus of the limbic system responsible for, among other things, regulating emotional responses). Then, one day I attended a symposium that was largely attended by persons with MCS. All presenters were given instructions not to use scented soap or perfume/cologne before attending the meeting because we would be in close proximity to the MCS patients during a social event that was scheduled for after the formal program. Well, I am somewhat a creature of habit, especially at 6:00 am when I am functioning on about three hours of sleep, so I took a shower that morning using the hotel-provided soap (scented), and, without thinking, I applied a very liberal dose of my favorite cologne (which when I am wearing it, my technicians tell me they can 'smell' me coming from about 10 feet away). I went to the symposium, gave my talk, and then freely mingled with the MCS patients afterward. Not one of them reacted to my concentrated mixture of "smells". As it turned out, the MCS patients were advised that they need not worry about wearing respirators, oxygen tanks, or any other 'crutches' they used to 'survive' in the real world, because we (the presenters) were all medical professionals and would be scent free. Thus, these people had a strong expectancy that we would not be 'harmful' to them, and that we 'were on their side'. Their expectancies ameliorated their predicted responses to my "odors".
Well, to make a long story even longer, about three years later we had a final meeting of the task force and produced a document that was submitted to the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (ATSDR) and the EPA. About a year after that, the clinical diagnosis for what had been called MCS was changed to Idiopathic Environmental Intolerance (i.e., a reaction to odors that has no definable physical cause).
The brain is a wondrous organ. It is capable of reorganizing input to meet its own specific needs. So, if it 'believes' something is the cause of an effect, it reorganizes its inputs to assure itself that it is correct. This is why I believe that nicotine dependence is "all in your head"
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