Vaping permission

[wv2win]

Not a scare post, basic common sense like these:

I vape myself...hello?

Was your doctor one of the people who conducted one of those 3 studies? No. That covers 3 common sense statements I made.
Did your doctor tell you vaping was 100% safe for you(or anyone) to do? No. vaping hasn't been around log enough to study it at the biological or neurological level yet.
Did your doctor tell you nicotine is 100% safe to inhale or consume? No. Educate people that tomatoes have trace amounts of nicotine and people might consider not eating them.
Would your doctor put his practice on the line and say yes to any of the 3 above questions in a court of law? No.

To negate your doctors advise: My grandmother's doctor"S"(3) told all of us(her family) not to smoke OR vape any where near her because it would cause even more complication with her high blood pressure,asthma and diabetes.
If you were sitting next to her in a public enclosed space vaping; would you know she had any of those conditions? No................

First, my doctor had the common sense and was smart enough to read the studies done to date on vaping because some of his patients stopped smoking by vaping. It's obvious your grandmother's doctor did not.

Second, I vaped for my doctor in his examination room so he could see for himself what vapor looked like up close.

Third, when I am in a small enclosed space with other people I either don't vape or would ask, educate and demonstrate before I would vape.

Fourth, the studies done to date HAVE revealed the make up of exhaled vapor. As my doctor verified, there is nothing in "exhaled" vapor that can cause biological or neurological damage so there is no need for long term studies as it pertains to "exhaled" vapor. And the trace amount of nicotine in exhaled vapor is so miniscule that it is not a concern for even someone with high blood pressure. He also agreed that there is more concern from the exhaust from power plants, chemical plants, paper mills and automobiles than the trace levels of any ingredients in vapor that a nearby person might encounter for a half second.

Fifth, you are now warning that people should not eat tomatos due to the nicotine in them. That really tells us much about your fears and your need to impose them on the rest of us.

As I have stated repeatidly, I believe it is wise to vape openly but respectfully. That does not mean giving in to irrational fears like yours and trying to infect others with your irrational, non-supported fear through the internet. Since there are more "real" dangers from many other parts of the enviornment that we live in than from exhaled vapor, the only logical conculsion if we followed your irrational fear, is for all of us to live in a bubble.

 

[CookingWithGuns]

I'm still new to vaping, in the past only used disposables and some of my friends' equipment to vape. Finally have my first personal vaper coming in next week (Halo G6, picking up a tank later on). However my thoughts on this are simple.

If the location allows smoking, vape away.
If the location doesn't allow smoking because of local laws, vape, but on something that doesn't produce too much vapor.
If they don't allow it because they don't like smoking, ask for permission. After all just like you want the freedom to vape, they want the freedom to run their business the way they want.

 

[steved5600]

Well in the long run you may want to modify that. What happens if you don't and they get insulted they say something to the management and then the NO VAPING signs go up. I have a support group I go to and someone made an anonymous suggestion that we ban it. They don't know it won't harm them plus you get some yahoo who is a control freak who can't stand to see us get away with what they think might be wrong. What I did was ask the management in a Movie theater if it was OK and they said sure. Then that person has no place to go. If I had not asked who knows. Just a thought. My q=worth. The more we antagonize the more likely the misinformed are to pass laws or put up signs.

But we are not doormats either. If vaping is not allowed we don't vape. If it is use good judgement, pick your battles. If it is offensive to them try and accommodate them with in reason. Sometimes it calls for stealth vaping. Oft times if they don't see a big cloud of vapor they have nothing to see and be offended about. Pure PG juice small Mod lower wattage. I do that in theaters that have no ban on vaping. Works for me. So far. Folks will always see something and be offended. Doesn't say they are right though. Just saying.

 

[peterforpats]

Why do these discussions always come down to the extremes? I'm really sick and tired of some of the "righteous" on ECF using the phrase "blowing vaper in someone's face". Who is advocating that? No one. That's just a "straw man" arguement. And we as a group cannot be responsible for the idiotic behavior of the few. Nor should we "act" like vaping is the same as smoking just because there are a few inconsiderate people in every sub-group in the country.

Since vaping is not harmful to those in the general proximity of someone who vapes, why can't we agree to vape openly BUT respectfully and with common sense. If we do that, we will be viewed positively, we will demonstrate the vast difference between smoking and vaping and we will create more opportunities to educate the uninformed.

Note: being respectful and using common sense does mean that under certain circumstances one should ask for permission. I wouldn't vape in someones home without explaining what it was and wasn't, demonstrating and then asking for permission.

truth is you don't really know if it is harmful to you let alone someone else. I feel vaping is healthier than smoking, but lacking scientific proof or research we don't know. right now it is all "best guess". vapor with pg,vg, and nicotine may very well be harmful to some folks around you. just because you say it isn't doesn't make it so.

 

[wv2win]

truth is you don't really know if it is harmful to you let alone someone else. I feel vaping is healthier than smoking, but lacking scientific proof or research we don't know. right now it is all "best guess". vapor with pg,vg, and nicotine may very well be harmful to some folks around you. just because you say it isn't doesn't make it so.

What "truth" are you referring to and the facts to back it up?

I would strongly suggest you do the research on the studies done to date that show that exhaled vapor is safe. Go to CASAA and join and read the studies that they provide. Where do you get this idea that exhaled vapor is not safe? My Cardiologist told me that there is more risk from breathing the air in any large city from car exhausts, chemical plants and power plants than any trace elements that a passer-by would get from exhaled vapor. So lets not spread misleading information and fear on this topic. Here is just one of several studies on the safety of exhaled vapor:

New E-cigarette Study Shows No Risk from Environmental Vapor Exposure

04-October-2012 –An indoor air quality study conducted by CHANGE, LLC at the Center for Air Resources Engineering and Science at Clarkson University in Potsdam, NY was published this month in the peer reviewed journal Inhalation Toxicology. The study compared harmful byproducts commonly found in cigarette smoke versus the levels of those same compounds in several popular brands of vaporized e-cigarette liquid.
Because e-cigarettes vaporize liquid rather than burning tobacco, most of the harmful compounds found in smoke were not present in e-cigarette vapor. Those few compounds that were found were at such minuscule levels that toxicology analysis detected no risk (cancer or non-cancer risk) to public health from environmental e-cigarette vapor.
“This study demonstrates that the risks of secondhand vapor from electronic cigarette use are very small in comparison to those associated with secondhand tobacco smoke. While secondhand smoke must be eliminated in workplaces and public places, the current data provide no justification for eliminating electronic cigarette use in these places.”- Dr. Michael Siegel of Boston University School of Public Health
“While secondhand smoke must be eliminated in workplaces and public places, the current data provide no justification for eliminating electronic cigarette use in these places.”
There has been a growing controversy over including e-cigarettes in smoking bans, which were originally passed due to the health risks thought to be caused by environmental tobacco smoke.
“For more than 25 years Smokefree Pennsylvania has been advocating indoor smoking bans. Based on the results of this study I see no reason for e-cigarettes to be included in smoking bans.” - Bill Godshall of Smokefree Pennsylvania.
“Most vapers believe e-cigarette vapor is not harmful to those around them, but it is reassuring to finally have scientific evidence confirming those beliefs.”- Spike Babaian, President of National Vapers Club
This is the first study to cover such a wide range of toxins, however previous studies, which have evaluated a smaller number of toxins, have shown similar results.

“The results of this study confirm the findings of my last 4 years of research. E-cigarettes pose no discernible risk to public health." - Dr. Murray Laugesen - Public Health Medicine Specialist, Health New Zealand

National Vapers Club, a consumer-based e-cigarette organization, sponsored the study.

 

[peterforpats]

I would strongly suggest you do the research on the studies done to date that show that exhaled vapor is safe. Go to CASAA and join and read the studies that they provide. Where do you get this idea that exhaled vapor is not safe? Lets not spread misleading information. Here is just one of several studies on the safety of exhaled vapor:

New E-cigarette Study Shows No Risk from Environmental Vapor Exposure

04-October-2012 –An indoor air quality study conducted by CHANGE, LLC at the Center for Air Resources Engineering and Science at Clarkson University in Potsdam, NY was published this month in the peer reviewed journal Inhalation Toxicology. The study compared harmful byproducts commonly found in cigarette smoke versus the levels of those same compounds in several popular brands of vaporized e-cigarette liquid.
Because e-cigarettes vaporize liquid rather than burning tobacco, most of the harmful compounds found in smoke were not present in e-cigarette vapor. Those few compounds that were found were at such minuscule levels that toxicology analysis detected no risk (cancer or non-cancer risk) to public health from environmental e-cigarette vapor.
“This study demonstrates that the risks of secondhand vapor from electronic cigarette use are very small in comparison to those associated with secondhand tobacco smoke. While secondhand smoke must be eliminated in workplaces and public places, the current data provide no justification for eliminating electronic cigarette use in these places.”- Dr. Michael Siegel of Boston University School of Public Health
“While secondhand smoke must be eliminated in workplaces and public places, the current data provide no justification for eliminating electronic cigarette use in these places.”
There has been a growing controversy over including e-cigarettes in smoking bans, which were originally passed due to the health risks thought to be caused by environmental tobacco smoke.
“For more than 25 years Smokefree Pennsylvania has been advocating indoor smoking bans. Based on the results of this study I see no reason for e-cigarettes to be included in smoking bans.” - Bill Godshall of Smokefree Pennsylvania.
“Most vapers believe e-cigarette vapor is not harmful to those around them, but it is reassuring to finally have scientific evidence confirming those beliefs.”- Spike Babaian, President of National Vapers Club
This is the first study to cover such a wide range of toxins, however previous studies, which have evaluated a smaller number of toxins, have shown similar results.
“The results of this study confirm the findings of my last 4 years of research. E-cigarettes pose no discernible risk to public health." - Dr. Murray Laugesen - Public Health Medicine Specialist, Health New Zealand
National Vapers Club, a consumer-based e-cigarette organization, sponsored the study.

"most of the harmful compounds found in smoke..." so some are? a study sponsored by vapors? listen, I am a skeptic by nature-when a major university or hospital study using established protocols says vaping has no harmful effects than I will be convinced totally. until then , I will continue to vape instead of smoke because it feels better for me, but that is my opinion. and if someone doesn't want to be around your "safe " vapor , that is their right also. don't be defensive and don't insist everything is safe for everybody because you don't know. the only misinformation is to state with certainty that which you don't know 100% and can prove. meanwhile enjoy a vape and be kind to others.

 

[tddman66]

I use the same courtesy vaping as I did smoking. I don't vape anyplace I wouldn't have smoked (other than I vape my house). Hopefully we have learned from the smoking past and the mistakes made. If we use our heads maybe we can avoid many of the same bans.

We all know the smokers who more than likely had a huge effect on the smoking bans. The smokers who would fire up in a crowded cafe and blow smoke over the non smokers tables right in the middle of a meal and never once considering others.

In the end BT is going to be the battle. Who would have ever thought!

 

[Katcandoo]

Listen to us. We have been so conditioned to be second class citizens because we smoke. The people were able to convince government to restrict smoking because of public health concerns. Now that we don't smoke and vape instead, there's not really a proven public health threat so the anti-smoking people are pushing for vaping restrictions. Why? Because of appearance. Or smell. Or (fill in the blank). Perfect! I'm allergic to seafood, even the smell makes me vomit, so no more fish in the microwave at work. And everyone who wears Halston perfume needs to stay 50 feet from any public doorway because the smell is just nasty.

None of those things will happen, though, because it's a personal preference and not a public health threat. Yet here we are, conditioned to be courteous and afraid of offending someone in a public place because of appearance or a (slight) odor that may or may not be appealing/offensive.

 

[wv2win]

"most of the harmful compounds found in smoke..." so some are? a study sponsored by vapors? listen, I am a skeptic by nature-when a major university or hospital study using established protocols says vaping has no harmful effects than I will be convinced totally. until then , I will continue to vape instead of smoke because it feels better for me, but that is my opinion. and if someone doesn't want to be around your "safe " vapor , that is their right also. don't be defensive and don't insist everything is safe for everybody because you don't know. the only misinformation is to state with certainty that which you don't know 100% and can prove. meanwhile enjoy a vape and be kind to others.

I just provided you one of many studies that show that exhaled vapor is safe. There are numerous Doctors, such as Dr Michael Seigel of Boston University's School of Public Health, that have confirmed the safety of exhaled vapor for those near by. And he is not aligned with any vaping organization. I couple that with my own Cardiologists review of the studies and know the answer as to the safety of exhaled vapor.

You obviously have done no research and have no knowledge on the topic. As long as you publicly acknowledge that your comments are based on nothing and no intelligent research to support them, they then can be taken for what they are worth.

 

[wv2win]

I use the same courtesy vaping as I did smoking. I don't vape anyplace I wouldn't have smoked (other than I vape my house). Hopefully we have learned from the smoking past and the mistakes made. If we use our heads maybe we can avoid many of the same bans.

We all know the smokers who more than likely had a huge effect on the smoking bans. The smokers who would fire up in a crowded cafe and blow smoke over the non smokers tables right in the middle of a meal and never once considering others.

In the end BT is going to be the battle. Who would have ever thought!

Most of us vets who have been vaping for more than a month or two, take the position to vape openly just about anywhere BUT respectfully. Perception is reality. If we provide the uninformed the perception that vaping is a dangerous as smoking by only vaping in smoking areas, then the reality is that vaping IS as dangerous as smoking.

Vaping openly but with respect and common sense is what many of us advocate. Telling the uninformed through your actions that vaping is as dangerous as smoking, completely supports those aligned against vaping such as ASH who are working hard to have vaping banned if possible and severely restricted at a minimum. ASH is actively seeking vapers to fight against vaping everywhere and would like as many of us as possible to join their organization.

 

[stormwench]

I don't really feel like I need to ask permission to vape any more then to drink a beer in front of someone but on the other hand most people have a pretty good idea of whats in the bottle and no clue what's in the tank.

I try to couch 'asking' as an explanation such as "don't worry, I vape, this is not smoking and what you are seeing is no more then what you see when you breath out on a very cold morning. There is no tobacco involved. Just thought I would let you know because not everyone is familiar with vapers." If in a public area I do move off to my own space and vape. The only problem I have had with that is that smoker's will see me and think I am smoking and join me. I am very sensitive to analog smoke now and usually have to ask them to move off because I am vaping not smoking and smoking bothers me.

Interestingly, I find a great many people don't want to admit they are so behind the times that they don't know about vaping and they shrug it off. Some are interested and ask for more information, which I am happy to supply up to a copy of a small pamphlet (I keep several with me) about vaping I provide to smokers who are interested.

I have run into a few that want to argue the fact and will swear they can smell my tobacco, and since I rarely have a tobacco flavor loaded my response of, "It must be from elsewhere because I am vaping banana juice" usually shuts down that complaint. There are always going to be some people that know better about things that they never saw before and to those a shrug is, unfortunately, about all you can do with the conversation - you will never convince them otherwise.

I was very careful in the beginning as my adult daughter has asthma and is so sensitive that even smoking outside and what would come back in on my clothing could be enough to set her off but when she started being able to follow me around closely to talk when I was vaping and had no issue and insisted it had no impact I relaxed a great deal about it.

I do ask, when in someone home or elsewhere indoors if they would mind and i am very surprised that most people seem very accepting. But I don't blame those that point out that at one time they let people 'smoke' when they asked because no one knew the dangers. Eventually I am sure the educative information will become more evident to the public but until then if someone says no - well its their environment.

As for vaping in areas wit no smoking signs, that depends where that sign is. I will admit to ignoring no smoking signs that are outdoors - I am not smoking, its that simple. As for inside, sa a restaurant or whatever I usually just abstain since people are eating and perhaps don't want that idea in their heads with a meal and I can't explain to everyone. There are a few bars and taverns around that have no problem with it and no questions asked, some I have to ask (as above) and others that just have said 'no' (cases I usually don't go back to).

My biggest problem, as mentioned above, seems to be asking permission in some places to vape smoke free. Now that I don't smoke and my health has so improved I don't want to expose myself to secondhand smoke. I am, having been a smoker, aware of how it can make you feel to have someone wave away the smoke and move on, but I often find myself asking smokers for the freedom of vaping away from their smoking.

 

[madmanmatt]

I usually vape in the smoking area. no one complains and most of the time I can help out a smoker with his or her questions. I have vaped inside a hospital once: nurse had no problem with it

 

[tnt56]

Sorry I skipped through a lot of the post to this thread. If you think your entitled to the respect you "Want", then you have to respect the others around you. I always ask before I vape. I don't have a complex about this. This is a free country. If I'm in your home and I want to do a I wish, Well it's not gonna work in my home. Respect me and I'll respect you. Get off the soap box and realize your not able to dictate to others what will be done, just because you know something they don't.
No offense but this kind of reasoning is why vapors get a bad rep.

 

[madmanmatt]

I agree tnt. sometimes It gets annoying when people don't know what there talking about.

 

[metrabolic]

I think I feel the same as others in that you need to be respectful of others. I know that vaping is safer, I know that my second hand vape is not going to hurt others around me and I vape freely in my own house and vehicle. But I'm not going to go around exposing others because A they might not know anything about vaping and get the wrong idea and B I don't want to turn vaping into a negative thing for people who aren't educated about it.

 

[LaniChan]

I always ask if it is okay to vape in certain places especially if there are children about. Besides pg/vg allergies, common courtesy is always a must imo because its not safe to assume that everyone will be okay with vaping. Although it is not smoke, it does mimic smoking and can attract unwanted interest from younger groups of people. That is just me though, I say go with what you think is right in certain places.

 

[transmothra]

I generally stealth-vape, but sometimes i'm more overt. I never ask for permission, but if somebody tells me not to do it (which has never happened yet), i'll try and have a constructive dialog about what it is and isn't. (I carry around my CASAA cards with me.) And if they won't budge, i will. I'll probably hurry to finish up my business and leave in fact, but not out of spite - just because i'll probably be having a nic fit at that point.

I also don't use a cigarette-alike, i use a lightsaber-like SVD, so there is no chance that anybody will think i'm smoking a cigarette (although a couple of times crunchy dudes have assumed it was some kind of futuristic .... or something - ...).

 

[uxmlrl]

Until they ban old ladies dipped in .....-sauce, I'll vape without asking permission, thank you very much. As I understand it, there's at least if not more crap in 'perfume' than vape flavoring, and you can't smell my vapor lingering 5 minutes after I've gone from anywhere.

 

[reddrank]

Not a scare post, basic common sense like these:

I vape myself...hello?

Was your doctor one of the people who conducted one of those 3 studies? No. That covers 3 common sense statements I made.
Did your doctor tell you vaping was 100% safe for you(or anyone) to do? No. Vaping hasn't been around log enough to study it at the biological or neurological level yet.
Did your doctor tell you nicotine is 100% safe to inhale or consume? No. Educate people that tomatoes have trace amounts of nicotine and people might consider not eating them.
Would your doctor put his practice on the line and say yes to any of the 3 above questions in a court of law? No.

My doctor actually would. He is the one who showed me how to do it on his own mod... right there in the exam room. Gave me a print out of everything I would need to buy and he actually DID say all those things you are saying no doctor would say. Emailed me all the same information after I had lost it, from his office's personal email.

Yes, you have a right to you opinion but you shouldn't say those things are "basic common sense". Basic common sense tells me your grandmother shouldn't leave her home. Because you know what people in public places do all the time? Smoke real cigerettes.

 

[reddrank]

Until they ban old ladies dipped in .....-sauce, I'll vape without asking permission, thank you very much. As I understand it, there's at least if not more crap in 'perfume' than vape flavoring, and you can't smell my vapor lingering 5 minutes after I've gone from anywhere.

YES! My thoughts exactly!!